All Rounds Should Be Four Hours or Less

[darthweasel]

Complete nonsense if anybody has played in areas where that is not possible.

there are some of those...Arizona, Mexico come to mind....and those exceptions are fine. But there are an awful lot of walkable courses that have carts and the post I was referencing had a pretty solid point on those. I am fine with carts where the long distances between tee boxes or similar things require them. I take them when I have to but on most courses I have played...

just did a quick count, I have not played overly many courses but the logo balls I have collected come to 103 spread across Oregon, Washington, California, Arizona and Mexico and there are 5 I think carts would be required on. Add the weather factor and that would add 35...

so yeah, i will back it off a bit.

When long distances between tee boxes, weather extremes, or health are involved...cart away. Other than things of that nature, I heartily believe and experience has shown carts tend to slow things.

With the natural exception of fast walkers in my experience tend to be fast carters and slow walkers tend to be slow carters...

 

[RatFink]

The course I was a member of last year has allegedly implemented GPS trackers for players to maintain pace.
Hilariously, I am pretty sure the Median time for all my rounds there outside of tournament conditions was about 3:45. I may have experienced 1 over 4 hours, but otherwise it was almost guaranteed you would finish under 4.

 

[echico]

there are some of those...Arizona, Mexico come to mind....and those exceptions are fine. But there are an awful lot of walkable courses that have carts and the post I was referencing had a pretty solid point on those. I am fine with carts where the long distances between tee boxes or similar things require them. I take them when I have to but on most courses I have played...

just did a quick count, I have not played overly many courses but the logo balls I have collected come to 103 spread across Oregon, Washington, California, Arizona and Mexico and there are 5 I think carts would be required on. Add the weather factor and that would add 35...

so yeah, i will back it off a bit.

When long distances between tee boxes, weather extremes, or health are involved...cart away. Other than things of that nature, I heartily believe and experience has shown carts tend to slow things.

With the natural exception of fast walkers in my experience tend to be fast carters and slow walkers tend to be slow carters...

Carts don't make golfers fast or slow.
Walking doesn't make golfers fast or slow.
Handicaps don't make golfers fast or slow.
Distance off the tee doesn't make golfers fast or slow.

Golfers make golfers fast or slow. If someone is slow they are slow as a 20 or 5 handicap. If someone is slow they are slow if they walk or ride.

 

[JB]

Carts don't make golfers fast or slow.
Walking doesn't make golfers fast or slow.
Handicaps don't make golfers fast or slow.
Distance off the tee doesn't make golfers fast or slow.

Golfers make golfers fast or slow. If someone is slow they are slow as a 20 or 5 handicap. If someone is slow they are slow if they walk or ride.

 

[Stemmy66]

Disagree. Most simply don’t understand ready golf, and courses do a poor job of helping inform golfers.

It’s not a don’t want to play faster, it’s a don’t know how to play normal thing, and no one will ever change my mind on that, I’ve seen it far too often.

Is it really the job of the course to help inform uninformed golfers about pace? I play as a single mostly and I'll try to grab a separate cart which most of the time the starter will allow... my first question after introductions to others in the group is do you guys mind if we play 'ready' golf? Nobody has every said no. The 2 courses that I play most often have a target for 4:10 and most rounds I get to play are right at that mark and definitely under 4:30 on the weekends. As a single, I'm not saying that asking to play ready golf is the answer but it makes me feel better when I'm swinging away while another guy is 30' feet away from me and has been standing over his ball for 2 mins Besides, others in the group usually get the hint when you're waiting near the green and they're still hitting approach shots on the second hole

 

[MtlJeff]

I played with 3 other THPers in February, all walking on a massive course none of us had played before. Even with stops at the comfort stations we finished in under 4 hours. I would say there were many holes that we played a bit slow on as well. None of us felt rushed, and we even live updated the round with pics from the course.

Sure yes, this is fairly simple to do as you say. Just be ready to hit, talk to each other while walking down the fairway etc.

I don't think i've played a casual round in more than 4 hours ever at my home course. I've even played CC rounds in <4

It's very doable. Most of the A's at my club i would say are either fast or decent tempo guys. We have a few slow players that no one wants to be paired with

One time in our ryder cup event, we put the 4 slowest guys together in a group and sent them out last to send a message LOL--they finished like 5-6 holes behind.

 

[frontTsociety]

Carts don't make golfers fast or slow.
Walking doesn't make golfers fast or slow.
Handicaps don't make golfers fast or slow.
Distance off the tee doesn't make golfers fast or slow.

Golfers make golfers fast or slow. If someone is slow they are slow as a 20 or 5 handicap. If someone is slow they are slow if they walk or ride.

Agreed, and I maintain that the majority of golfers want to play at a slower pace. If this is the case, and courses don’t force them to play faster, the minority who want to play faster have some choices to make. I gave up a long time ago trying to cattle prod my fellow members and public walk-ons to play faster. I decided to role with it, and have enjoyed the game a lot more since. Mind you, I also made the decision to play for a course that is designed and managed to a 4 hour pace, but that’s one of those choices I talked about.

 

[RatFink]

I think the point around pace must be enforced expectation.
If the course posts "all rounds must be completed in <4hrs15mins" and enforces it, great. The expectation has been set and you know what you have to do. If they post that, and don't do anything so you have rounds dragging to 5, then everyone gets mad.

 

[Slowmo]

I would rather play a 4.5 hour round where there is no one in front or behind me, over a 3.5-4 hour round where I’m waiting on every shot

 

[Jman]

Is it really the job of the course to help inform uninformed golfers about pace? I play as a single mostly and I'll try to grab a separate cart which most of the time the starter will allow... my first question after introductions to others in the group is do you guys mind if we play 'ready' golf? Nobody has ever said no. The 2 courses that I play most often have a target for 4:10 and most rounds I get to play are right at that mark and definitely under 4:30 on the weekends. As a single, I'm not saying that asking to play ready golf is the answer but it makes me feel better when I'm swinging away while another guy is 30' feet away from me and has been standing over his ball for 2 mins Besides, others in the group usually get the hint when you're waiting near the green and they're still hitting approach shots on the second hole

I don’t believe I said SOLE answer, did I? Nope.

But to say they should have no role at all in educating golfers is pretty laughable to me.

 

[echico]

I would rather play a 4.5 hour round where there is no one in front or behind me, over a 3.5-4 hour round where I’m waiting on every shot

If there is no one in front or behind how does a round take 4.5 hrs?

 

[Slowmo]

At my course, and I’ve said it before, “entitlement”…. “I paid my money, I’ll take as long as I want” is the new norm. It stems from what seems to be the influx of Covid golfers who have no idea how long a round should take. All we hear is “we’re here for the day.”

The cart problem as well…

A few weeks ago we sold out every tee time but didn’t allow carts out. Walking only. Rounds were under 4 hours. Our front 9 at 1.5 and back 9 at 1:45. It was awesome. As soon as carts came back, the pace of play went back to 5+ hours.

powerful argument to ban carts (except for those with disabilities)...a move I am strongly in favor of. Carts slow things way the #$%^& down

Courses saw a measurable increase in pace of play when everyone had to be in separate carts for COVID as everyone went straight to their own ball. A huge part of the slow down is a cart going to the first guys ball, getting distance, figuring out the shot, 19 practice swings and then finally hit the ball, then go to the second guys ball and repeat.

Generally a group of 4 walkers will easily keep pace with a group of riders for this very reason. I honestly prefer to walk when it's not outrageously hot here in Houston (which means we get to walk Nov-April usually) because it takes more time to get to my ball so less waiting.

 

[Slowmo]

Is it really the job of the course to help inform uninformed golfers about pace? I play as a single mostly and I'll try to grab a separate cart which most of the time the starter will allow... my first question after introductions to others in the group is do you guys mind if we play 'ready' golf? Nobody has every said no. The 2 courses that I play most often have a target for 4:10 and most rounds I get to play are right at that mark and definitely under 4:30 on the weekends. As a single, I'm not saying that asking to play ready golf is the answer but it makes me feel better when I'm swinging away while another guy is 30' feet away from me and has been standing over his ball for 2 mins Besides, others in the group usually get the hint when you're waiting near the green and they're still hitting approach shots on the second hole

I say yes it is. When I was growing up playing golf most public courses had signs every few holes saying "your pace should be at 1:12 at this point" and also had usually 2 marshals driving around the course telling people they need to catch up to the group in front of them and if they came by again a second time and they were still behind would make them pick up their ball and move into position. I don't believe I've seen anything like that in a good 20 years.

 

[Stemmy66]

I don’t believe I said SOLE answer, did I? Nope.

But to say they should have no role at all in educating golfers is pretty laughable to me.

I didn't refer to sole but your point is valid... they should play a role

 

[leftybob]

You have a nipple on those beers for a sippy cup or what?

Sippy cups are for white wine.

 

[BroD]

If it took over 4 hours to play... I probably would have quit... (actually, we jump around them) and try to pick up the hole later or not at all.

 

[DataDude]

Now that pace has gotten out of hand I look at fixing the problem very similar to the introduction of the seat belt. It was a sky fister argument not to use seatbelts but slowly, and I mean slowly, the usage rate went up and there were few fatalities in crashes. Universally fixing pace is the same thing and will require a lot of outside influence to correct bad habits.

First things first we have to form what success looks like and that is a round of golf should take no longer than 4 hrs. To correct that in the general public unfortunately will take some negative things to happen (like tickets for no seat belt).

Who is going to take the job of driving around telling folks to hurry the eff up? Golf courses honestly don’t pay enough for that.

 

[echico]

Who is going to take the job of driving around telling folks to hurry the eff up? Golf courses honestly don’t pay enough for that.

There is technology that can track folks and where they are on the course. Simply put you have to register to play a course. The course can automatically get what times you have played the course in and see how far behind you finished from the group in front of you and determine if they want to keep your business.

 

[DataDude]

determine if they want to keep your business.

The answer to this question for 99% of public courses is that they do want to keep that business, so now what?

 

[echico]

The answer to this question for 99% of public courses is that they do want to keep that business, so now what?

Courses that can say they guarantee a close to 4 hr round can charge more so keeping the slow pokes out won't hurt them.

 

[DataDude]

Courses that can say they guarantee a close to 4 hr round can charge more so keeping the slow pokes out won't hurt them.

This sounds like a good poll question. How much more would you be willing to tack onto a green fee at a public course to guarantee a 4 hour round?

 

[Cruskater]

After Covid, our home course saw the spike in rounds (like many) and the weekends crept up and over 5 hours. This despite being a 6000 yard course from the tips! It has slowly started to eek down. Had an interesting conversation about this with one of my colleagues who also plays the course from time to time.

Short, narrow course with small greens. Easy to maintain well for the staff, so they can keep the cost down ($40 during the week, $50 weekends). This, coupled with the short length, brings out a ton of newbies. Narrow fairways and OB on many holes leads to a lot of both looking for balls and hitting off the wrong fairways. The small greens greatly helped with my short game. There are probably more walkers at the course due to the short length, but it seems like every time we are paired with people who are in carts they hit on opposite sides of the fairway and wait for each other. At the end of last year, I had a guy get upset that he was further back and taking a long time, so I punched my ball out from where I was. I explained ready golf to him. He always played whoever is furthest back combined with remembering honors on the tee. I haven't run into too many people who are slow over the ball, etc., just mostly hitting 10 shots per hole and driving all over hells acres looking for balls.

Good thing about the Spring is a few less golfers due to the colder temps and more days when carts aren't allowed (not too many actual cart paths on the course) means faster play.

 

[Stemmy66]

I say yes it is. When I was growing up playing golf most public courses had signs every few holes saying "your pace should be at 1:12 at this point" and also had usually 2 marshals driving around the course telling people they need to catch up to the group in front of them and if they came by again a second time and they were still behind would make them pick up their ball and move into position. I don't believe I've seen anything like that in a good 20 years.

What you're describing is more enforcement of pace of play than the course informing, instructing & encouraging patrons to apply 'ready' golf, but I agree the course has some responsibility to both enforce as well as inform on how to maintain pace. On the courses I play the carts have pace of play on GPS and tell when you're out of position, not that most people try to close that gap

 

[BigMac]

I think some of us may be talking across each other on the topic though, based upon our own experiences. What's a "reasonable" pace of play can vary from course to course, and it's difficult to generalize. Course design and routing has at least something to do with it. Time of day and day of the week, too - the weekday early morning dew sweepers often play a lot faster than the mid-afternoon weekend crowd. I can tell you what a reasonable pace of play is for my home course and other courses I've played and am familiar with - I can't tell you what a reasonable pace of play is at your home course at the other end of the country that I've never even seen.

I walk most of the year, the rest of the group I usually play with are all in carts, all 60+ years old, and scores in our group vary from mid/high 70s to 100+, depending on who's playing that day. We play early morning weekdays at my home course - a 4 hour round doesn't feel anything near rushed or racing or fast or brisk - it's actually slow, and it's very rare that it takes us that long. But I don’t expect that to be universally true for everybody everywhere.

 

[That post]

I think the struggle I have with pace discussions is there doesn't ever seem to be a happy medium. I believe this thread perhaps could have been a discussion about what that happy medium is but instead, it's the same cast of characters discussing how quickly they can play (likely alone). That's great because they obviously enjoy it and that's what it's all about but I would like to know from those guys where their 'happy medium' is for a foursome. There is no way that the 1.5 or 2 hours can be done with any amount of consistency on most courses unless first off and even then with a 4 ball that's very very aggressive.

Is it 3.5 hours? Is it 3 hours? Is it right at 4?