Differences between tour golf and amateur golf players

[JB]

An interesting way to look at this is look at the top amateurs in the WORLD the last decade or so. See how many of them went on to be players on the largest stage.

 

[Sean]

I believe you mean Ty Tryon.

Like I said, every single player out there was the best junior in their area and a "phenom". And for every one that "makes it" there are hundreds that dont after being the "next big thing". Top talent is also finding their ways to academies such as the big few in FL where they are grooming talent like crazy. Its just a different world nowadays.

That's it Ty Tryon. I wonder sometimes how she can compete. She lives in the Northeast, middle class all the way (like me), no special schools, no golf 12 months out of the year (unless you count hitting balls into a snow-filled range golf), no "extras", etc., and yet she manages. At last year's USGA girl's amateur the Golf Channel followed her around for a while as she was the second youngest competitor in the field and finished second or third in the 36 hole metal play.

 

[Fairway2Green]

Certainly not doubting her ability, but I think this is another thing that goes along with this topic. Like JB said every person on tour was a phenom. A good friend of mine is a female golfer and she was a great amateur and had scholarship offers to all the top programs. She went to Vanderbilt and after her first year playing with college talent and getting to play with pros she decided to drop golf and to focus completely on her law degree. It's a very very hard thing to be a PGA/LPGA touring pro.

 

[Fairway2Green]

An interesting way to look at this is look at the top amateurs in the WORLD the last decade or so. See how many of them went on to be players on the largest stage.

Exactly. It's the same with all sports.

 

[Lynchburg14]

ummm, a lot of money, private jets, your pick of perkins waitresses, 500k watches, free golf, more perkins waitresses, having your strokes counted by a fatty in a recliner, fast cars, free clubs, unlimited golf balls

Now that is the life

 

[Sean]

+2. Not doubting one bit and I really hope she makes it to the top one day. Sounds like she is on the way.

Certainly not doubting her ability, but I think this is another thing that goes along with this topic. Like JB said every person on tour was a phenom. A good friend of mine is a female golfer and she was a great amateur and had scholarship offers to all the top programs. She went to Vanderbilt and after her first year playing with college talent and getting to play with pros she decided to drop golf and to focus completely on her law degree. It's a very very hard thing to be a PGA/LPGA touring pro.

Exactly. It's the same with all sports.

With regards to golf it makes you wonder. At a certain level they are all great ball strikers, they all have great short games, they can all putt. So what separates them? What makes the one person able to take it to the next level and the other person not? IMHO it's the mental game...mental toughness...the ability to focus and play under pressure.

 

[JB]

IMHO it's the mental game...mental toughness...the ability to focus and play under pressure.

I dont. In fact I think that is one of the most overused terms and phrases when discussing young talent and why or why not they make it. To me the difference is ability.

Here is a look back. Tiger Woods won 3 US Ams in a row. In the finals he beat guys that most never heard of. Does that mean he was just that much more mentally tough? Maybe, but he also had far more ability.

That to me is the difference. Sometimes, some of the best amateurs and prodigies just flat out are not good enough to get to the next level in sports. Here is a list at the US Am over the last few decades. Look at how many winners and finalists never made it on the next level. And these are in many instances the BEST of the best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Amateur_Championship_(golf)

 

[Sean]

I dont. In fact I think that is one of the most overused terms and phrases when discussing young talent and why or why not they make it. To me the difference is ability.

Here is a look back. Tiger Woods won 3 US Ams in a row. In the finals he beat guys that most never heard of. Does that mean he was just that much more mentally tough? Maybe, but he also had far more ability.

That to me is the difference. Sometimes, some of the best amateurs and prodigies just flat out are not good enough to get to the next level in sports. Here is a list at the US Am over the last few decades. Look at how many winners and finalists never made it on the next level. And these are in many instances the BEST of the best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Amateur_Championship_(golf)

But they all have ability JB. They've proven that or they wouldn't have made it as far as they have. So if they all can hit the ball great, if they all have great short game, if they all can putt, there has to be something else that separates them.

 

[JB]

But they all have ability JB. They've proven that or they wouldn't have made it as far as they have. So if they all can hit the ball great, if they all have great short game, if they all can putt, there has to be something else that separates them.

Nobody is questioning whether or not they have ability. But having ability and being one of the best in the world are two different things. While they can do all of those things, some do it better than others. If it was just a mental difference, the people that finished 2nd or 5th, or 11th would also be able to move on to the next level at least in some capacity. The truth is not always fun for young athletes to find out, but there is almost ALWAYS someone better out there.

 

[tomahawk18]

Really? The average par 3 on tour is over 200 yards? I would have guessed less for the "average".

Are you joking or being serious? Most tour events are over 7,000 yards, some over 7,500!

Of course there are some traditional par 3's that are still short, but they are pretty rare. For a quick example, The 4 par 3's at the Honda classic this week are listed at 217, 226, 179, 190. The point was length is a big deal on tour.

Btw...
Did you see that your ducks are being investigated for recruiting violations? Haha. Go dawgs

 

[Sean]

Nobody is questioning whether or not they have ability. But having ability and being one of the best in the world are two different things. While they can do all of those things, some do it better than others. If it was just a mental difference, the people that finished 2nd or 5th, or 11th would also be able to move on to the next level at least in some capacity.

But I think there is something extra...beyond the ability to hit a golf ball...that separates the elite from the almost elite. Call it "x", "flow", "the zone", or what have you. And IMHO it goes beyond physical ability.

 

[Golf 'N Gator]

I think some weird natural ability is part of it. I play the guitar and David Gilmour play's the guitar. The difference between me and him (besides the fact he is worth $500 million) is his unreal ability to do things with the fingers on both hands at the same time, which 99.999% of other players don't have. My guitar teacher told me one time that guys like David Gilmour are one 10 million. Same can be said about lots of other people skills. Some just have certain abilities way beyond normal that is difficult to explain.

There are those that suffer from the Savant syndrome that can not function on their own but yet have the ability to play a musical instrument beyond belief (or other special abilities). I'm not saying great golfers are Savant's, but they have something the rest of us don't have in some cases.

 

[tnc200]

I have always wondered, what is the difference between some of you low handicappers (1-3) or scratch golfers vs the pros?

I realize that the pro course is longer but if you low 'cappers were to play a tour level course on the tour tees, would it still be possible for you to shoot as low as you normally do?

Tiger challenge did just this thing. <10 hdcp golfers playing Bethpage Black before or just after the tourney. The challenge was to break 100. Most of them didn't.

 

[Esox]

I think the mental aspect plays into it, but some people just have "it". My daughter is going to be a good player, and I hope good enough to at least get part of an education out of it, but unless "it" suddenly shows up, we have no misconceptions. It would come easier to her than it does. The girl Sean speaks of has phenom ability as a kid, hopefully it will last her into the professional ranks if that is what she wants.

Today my daughter was hitting balls and down the way from us probably the finest young lady player in the state was also practicing. While she has certainly been successful here in Cheeseland, I look at her swing at 16 and wouldn't think she has "it". At the talk we went to at the Chicago Golf Show, the former Big Ten women's coach was talking about comments made to her by her friend, LPGA player Sheri Steinhauer. She says to be successful you have to do/have all the cliches: desire, discipline, etc. She also said golfers have to be honest with themselves. Few people have what it takes to play successfully as a tour player. No matter how hard you work it's just not going to be there, but that doesn't mean you can't have a successful career in golf, or have it pay for your education.

But there are very, very, few people that have Tour caliber game.

I wonder is there are more young golfers disappointed each year, or more young football, basketball, or baseball players. Golf's not the only sport where the difference between young phenom and successful professional is the Grand Canyon.

Kevin

 

[MikeLee6978]

Too bad there is not a magic potion I can drink to put me on the Tour level!!

 

[calebt17]

I'll play on Tour this year in Tiger Woods 2012, my goal is to make to the Masters.

Seeing the PGA pro's in person makes you realize they are on a completely different level. It is amazing to watch.

 

[Sean]

I'll play on Tour this year in Tiger Woods 2012, my goal is to make to the Masters.

Seeing the PGA pro's in person makes you realize they are on a completely different level. It is amazing to watch.

And, imagine those guys last year who shot 59!!

 

[cj3ap2]

I lived in Augusta, Ga for 13 years. I was a member of a course called Green Acres for a few years. Slamming Sam knows the course I am referring to. Just a simple course with not a whole lot going for it. I had a teenager who for some reason took to playing golf with me, so I had the opportunity to play a few years with him. This guy was unreal with a golf club. He set two course records in Augusta with a 63 at Green Meadows & 61 at Goshen Plantation. I'm not sure if either of these two courses are even open now. Sam or littlepingman would know. Anyways this young man was so good he made Parade All-American as a High School Golfer! I caddied for him in two city amateur chamionships. The young man had some serious game. He tried to make it on the mini tours in Florida and eventually gave up. He did win two events but living out of a car and playing different courses every week is a tough business. It also cost him entry fees and his Dad was not well to do. Without a sponsor it just got too much so he dropped off the mini tours and eventually did made it as a Class A PGA Professional. His name was David Usry and one hell of a golfer. Being a great amateur is not in the same neighborhood. Oh and for those that mentioned all you have to do is practice eight hours a day, have a caddy etc. David was born with awesome talent, practiced everyday and could not make it so that speaks volumes. I had a chance to see a child golf prodigy and it was truly an experience I will never forget. Now I really appreciate the guys who make a living on the PGA Tour!

This was an eye opener for me. I had previously been under the impretion that a lot of tour pro's were guys who were gifted as golfer as kids and that gave them the inside leg to getting to the top (because they were noticed), and that anyone with a cetain amount of hand eye cordination, feel and obsessive levels of dedication could work to become that good. Thinking that "well if i had all day every day to practice every shot 1,000 times a day and access to all the best equipment/coaches/inside information eventually i could become that good too".

Hearing stories of a guy with phenom talent at a young age and dedication not make it, really gives an eye opening view of just how darn good the guys who make it are and just how difficult it is.

 

[Canio]

It is just incredible how good the pros are. I do remember a quote from Greg Norman that goes something like this: "When I'm on my game, I know that from 185 yds, I'll knock it within 5'." Just think about it. I can't even hit the green more than 40-50% of the time from that distance on my good days! Much less within 5 friggin' feet!!!!

This also translates to other pro sports, too. I played college ball for the University of Southern Colorado. My joke is that I can honestly say I was the starting tailback for USC!!!! I played a couple of years for the old WFL (World Football League) in the 70's with Larry Czonka and others. The 'other' pros at the NFL were so much, MUCH, MUCH better than we were there was really NO comparison!

 

[TMSHACKS]

funny part is people often compare themeselves to the top players on tour rather than the average player. Compare yourself to a Derek Lamely who is 146 in Scoring average on the tour at 71.47 right at par. Derek has made 2 of 5 cuts this season and is earned over 100,000 $.

Now that you know this I want you to think about the fact he was a full timer on pga this season and last and in 08-09 he played both PGA and Nationwide. So he is better than nationwide players. Probably about a +3 handicap. Pat Perez is a +5 handicap and he is a guy that has a scoring average of 70.8.

Ok now I know a guy who used to play on the nationwide tour and even him at the "minor league level" had a huge practice routine.

His week from April to October

Practice for 8 hours Sun, Mon, Tue, Wed, Thur, Fri, Sat, Sunday, Travel, Practice Round...Tournament and then repeat it. Playing every other event.

Ok remember thats 8 hours of hitting balls at the driving range and practice rounds. Its a full time job and thats whats the difference. Along with a large gamble. Golf is one of the few sports where you dont get a lot of contracts. You earn your money off of performance. In a sense your playing to pay your mortgage. What seperates a +2 guy from being on A tour would be the willingness to give up what he has and risk it all for a chance at being a pro golfer.

Think about this most golfers who are +2 or +3 are Teaching pros which is a pretty good job. You teach golf, most of the time work on golf courses and make good money. O and you often get free clubs from companies as a teaching pro. Im not sure if id give all that up for a gamble at a tour where one week you make the cut and life is good but then you miss the next 4 and dont know where it all went after 3 weeks of hotels and airfares.


Also think about this... I believe on the PGA you need 150K of funding to start the season. Its what is approx to avoid losing money in a golf season. Now golfers tend to gain money through ball sponsers and other type of investors and family members. Once again this was info I heard from a guy who played on nationwide.

BTW 6 or 7 years removed from that tour he now goes out and shoots a 70 or 71 from the Blue tee's at most courses with a few weeks between rounds

 

[Doug the lefty]

Interesting topic for me as I am new to the game. I am taking lessons and I am also fortunate enough to have a scratch golfer to learn course management with. This guy (I should say, young man, as he is in his early 20's) had a full ride scholarship through school and is a legit scratch guy-no foot wedge, no mulligan, etc. During the last round last fall I asked him what it would take for him to go on tour. Without hesitation, he said there is no way he could make a tour even with daily practice and unlimited $$$. That was an eye opener for me.
Golf is just like any other pro sport, in my opinion. The elite athletes are on a completely different level. My cousin was a great O-lineman for a perennial top 25 college team (6'2, 303 lbs) and didn't get invited to the combine and didn't have a single NFL team look at him......