Expensive aftermarket putter shafts?

[Jman]

?

If they're mentioning it in that thread that often, they've obviously thought about it. If you're talking about thinking it through, it would be other people who would respond with that, not the ones that don't think it helps.

I think my response was about SG vs cost not being there for me or something, being a good putter with mine. Differences just haven't been there.

Anyway, I was surprised by it being that common of a response in that thread and what I wanted to say was that I've noticed people being more open to the idea of it helping them when it's mentioned or marketed to them as built for a model/line of putters specifically. Not that ______ shaft will help you in any putter head, but more like built to work in unison with _____ head(s). Just something in the human response of it all. Pulls them out of their skepticism somehow.

You’re literally asking them to comment on it ina. Most under thought thread (if it were made), so then, they’re being forced to acknowledge and think about it. Which is my point.

 

[Jman]

From a Google Search result: "geared towards improving the overall stroke. They focused on backswing length, impact face angle, tempo and speed at impact, and weight distribution." I guess it is, but I'd also consider that the point of all putter shafts. I'd like to see what a softer profile would feel like. I think that could really help my putting out by providing the feedback during the stroke that I don't really feel now.

More flex would mean a lot more variance. That’s a death mail in putting.

 

[OldandStiff]

From a Google Search result: "geared towards improving the overall stroke. They focused on backswing length, impact face angle, tempo and speed at impact, and weight distribution." I guess it is, but I'd also consider that the point of all putter shafts. I'd like to see what a softer profile would feel like. I think that could really help my putting out by providing the feedback during the stroke that I don't really feel now.

That kind of goes against what they're generally about. They make them stiffer, higher CPM, less torque so you get less movement and deflection with the heavier heads, and generally more feedback or feel. A softer profile would be the opposite direction. And I guess I don't really think about some putters maybe still having old school steel. I play a very stiff steepless steel in mine. I'm sure there are still softies out there.

 

[hackitup]

I am intrigued by Fujikura's MC shafts. 307 on the low side to 607 on the high for CPM. Granted I have no clue what the profile looks like or how their CPM measurements are taken. But that's a pretty big difference and I'd like to see what that means for my stroke throughout their range.

 

[JB]

I am intrigued by Fujikura's MC shafts. 307 on the low side to 607 on the high for CPM. Granted I have no clue what the profile looks like or how their CPM measurements are taken. But that's a pretty big difference and I'd like to see what that means for my stroke throughout their range.

Trust me, try the UST Mamiya All In if that type of thing is your thing.

 

[Z1319]

Lots of these on the market and more OEM's getting in on the action. A steel putter shaft is the age old favorite but do the new composite shafts offer any real world benefits? Using lighter materials makes it easy to alter weight placement up and down the shaft but does that do anything that a heavier/lighter grip or adjusting head weight won't do? Do you think they are the real deal and would make most people putt better?

they are pricey but I think many people could benefit

 

[OldandStiff]

You’re literally asking them to comment on it ina. Most under thought thread (if it were made), so then, they’re being forced to acknowledge and think about it. Which is my point.

Yes, on what in golf gear they feel isn't as important. There would be a few people saying it's under thought in that theoretical Most Underthought thread of yours. You obviously, some others. That wouldn't make it anywhere near the "most common answer". Partly because of how many people apparently don't believe it's worthwhile. If they don't think it matters, they don't think it's underthought. I've looked at this 4 different times. You either don't realize what you said, or how it reads, or something.

That said, most amateurs are such bad putters they won’t notice the benefits as they think it to be a magic arrow, but no arrow can fix those broken putting strokes.

This read a little strange too. I think you're saying, or trying to say, that they won't see the benefits as won't perceive them or credit them? No, not credit. Because if they're still helplessly broken stroking there's no credit to give. Let's go with perceive? Will benefit but not see it/admit it, because of higher than realistic expectations? Maybe that's it. But if it is, expectations automatically come with things that cost. I mean with putter tech Sean Toulon has been on THP things multiple times saying that the pros don't need it as much. That the amateurs are the ones that benefit, putt to putt, and over the long term. Like a lot of things in golf. And you just said they won't notice the benefits with these shafts. So why should they buy it, or buy into it??

 

[drp3434]

I wish there was a "I have no clue" option. I am uneducated on shafts in general, but putter shafts and what they do, my knowledge is basically zero.

 

[drp3434]

That kind of goes against what they're generally about. They make them stiffer, higher CPM, less torque so you get less movement and deflection with the heavier heads, and generally more feedback or feel. A softer profile would be the opposite direction. And I guess I don't really think about some putters maybe still having old school steel. I play a very stiff steepless steel in mine. I'm sure there are still softies out there.

Glad I read this. This makes sense and helps my feeble brain understand these shafts a little bit.

 

[Jman]

Yes, on what in golf gear they feel isn't as important. There would be a few people saying it's under thought in that theoretical Most Underthought thread of yours. You obviously, some others. That wouldn't make it anywhere near the "most common answer". Partly because of how many people apparently don't believe it's worthwhile. If they don't think it matters, they don't think it's underthought. I've looked at this 4 different times. You either don't realize what you said, or how it reads, or something.



This read a little strange too. I think you're saying, or trying to say, that they won't see the benefits as won't perceive them or credit them? No, not credit. Because if they're still helplessly broken stroking there's no credit to give. Let's go with perceive? Will benefit but not see it/admit it, because of higher than realistic expectations? Maybe that's it. But if it is, expectations automatically come with things that cost. I mean with putter tech Sean Toulon has been on THP things multiple times saying that the pros don't need it as much. That the amateurs are the ones that benefit, putt to putt, and over the long term. Like a lot of things in golf. And you just said they won't notice the benefits with these shafts. So why should they buy it, or buy into it??

You’re jumping to conclusions, and putting words in my mouth. Which, admittedly, I expected to happen.

Will a driver or iron shaft fix a truly bad swing? No. But do amateurs constantly look for the one that will, only to inevitably blame the shaft rather than the swing when it won’t? The answer to that, you full well know, is yes they do.

The same stands with putter shafts. A bad stroke, will be a bad stroke. Would one of these shafts help? I believe yes, absolutely, but that is simply from me actually trying and reviewing practically all of them. However, will it cut off multiple strokes per round, like most amateurs tend to believe the litmus of success should be? No, because while they DO add consistency, they are still beginning from a deficit with the truly inconsistent hit/pop strokes that we all need to admit we see each time we are on the course.

I have long been a supporter of these putter shaft designs, I do believe they make a difference, the issue being, and I’ve said it in many of my review articles on them, the ability to perceive how much difference and give people a hard and fast answer is nearly impossible for a reviewer. They need to be tried.

Price of course is a deterrent there, or, at least, it WAS. UST is about to take that and flip it on its head, in my humble opinion.

 

[OldandStiff]

You’re jumping to conclusions, and putting words in my mouth. Which, admittedly, I expected to happen.

Oh FFS. I didn't put any words anywhere. They're your words. And I was asking a legitimate question based on them. If you don't want people to quote them, choose better. I can't imagine a shaft sponser would have read that line as written without a raised eyebrow. Or maybe asked for clarification.

All the rest I can totally get on board with. And would continue by asking how we get more people to try them? Like I said, I've noticed people respond well to the combo thing. This designed in combination for this, etc. Maybe because it's a fresh everything? Maybe they just don't feel like a new shaft will benefit them, even if it will, as easily in the same head? Or non-specific head. I don't know. I've tried a bunch and I'm definitely not against them, outside of price. I technically play an upgraded putter shaft. Like I said in that other thread I'm just not there on the math of it. I feel like we'll all be in some kind of composite eventaully just because of them being paired with new putters more each cycle.

The first part you mentioned seems like part of the problem. Shaft for quick fix, doesn't fix, blame the shaft. Totally common. That's golf religion. And they can swap even premium driver shafts pretty often/easily. Even in stores people take advantage of that ability, retail, build shop, and the 90 day thing, etc. Don't really get that with putter shafts. They'll trade in the whole putter I suppose. See, it seems more linked. Paired. Doesn't it? You either get fit at a nice place for a real nice putter shaft, or you're a tinkerer/experimenter, or it's just paired with the putter you want or fit. Or you try your buddies that's been schooling you and want in on that I guess. lol

If it takes long term use for most ams to see the benefits, how do we convince them to take the price leap to start, or commit to it at a non-elite fit situation over more conventional? I suppose if I'm right about all of us being in a non-steel (only) shaft eventually because of the putter releases, the wanting to upgrade them for performance might trickle in along with that? I'll be curious to hear more about the UST ones. I'm curious price points on some of this too. There has to be a magic number with it tilts more towards the 'worth it to try' side for people.


*Reminder to readers who always think there's flames everywhere - You get out of this what you bring into it. We all do. I'm not screaming FFS!! at James and pounding a fist or anything. lol I wore a visor with fake hair while I played yesterday and today FFS! Life's way too short to be actual angry on the internet. I just talk to people here like I would any golf friend.

 

[Jman]

Oh FFS. I didn't put any words anywhere. They're your words. And I was asking a legitimate question based on them. If you don't want people to quote them, choose better. I can't imagine a shaft sponser would have read that line as written without a raised eyebrow. Or maybe asked for clarification.

All the rest I can totally get on board with. And would continue by asking how we get more people to try them? Like I said, I've noticed people respond well to the combo thing. This designed in combination for this, etc. Maybe because it's a fresh everything? Maybe they just don't feel like a new shaft will benefit them, even if it will, as easily in the same head? Or non-specific head. I don't know. I've tried a bunch and I'm definitely not against them, outside of price. I technically play an upgraded putter shaft. Like I said in that other thread I'm just not there on the math of it. I feel like we'll all be in some kind of composite eventaully just because of them being paired with new putters more each cycle.

The first part you mentioned seems like part of the problem. Shaft for quick fix, doesn't fix, blame the shaft. Totally common. That's golf religion. And they can swap even premium driver shafts pretty often/easily. Even in stores people take advantage of that ability, retail, build shop, and the 90 day thing, etc. Don't really get that with putter shafts. They'll trade in the whole putter I suppose. See, it seems more linked. Paired. Doesn't it? You either get fit at a nice place for a real nice putter shaft, or you're a tinkerer/experimenter, or it's just paired with the putter you want or fit. Or you try your buddies that's been schooling you and want in on that I guess. lol

If it takes long term use for most ams to see the benefits, how do we convince them to take the price leap to start, or commit to it at a non-elite fit situation over more conventional? I suppose if I'm right about all of us being in a non-steel (only) shaft eventually because of the putter releases, the wanting to upgrade them for performance might trickle in along with that? I'll be curious to hear more about the UST ones. I'm curious price points on some of this too. There has to be a magic number with it tilts more towards the 'worth it to try' side for people.


*Reminder to readers who always think there's flames everywhere - You get out of this what you bring into it. We all do. I'm not screaming FFS!! at James and pounding a fist or anything. lol I wore a visor with fake hair while I played yesterday and today FFS! Life's way too short to be actual angry on the internet. I just talk to people here like I would any golf friend.

First, and I walked away and then came back to prevent a VERY reactionary first instinct…because I’m going to believe that the way the whole exchange came off was unintended….I’ll choose to post however I want to, I don’t need any instruction there, thank you for your concern. I’ve done this for a little while and have a pretty good understanding of how forums work. Additionally, I don’t see what sponsors have to do with this?

Now, back on the farm, and to the rest of the post which is an enjoyable conversation point…

The only way to get more to try them, is to make them more accessible. Which is one of many reasons that UST will be successful with the ALL-IN, accessibility in a standard putter as well as more reasonable price accessibility.

High end putter shafts were always going to have a natural barrier to them, beyond the price, it’s the club golfers are quickest to change and it has the smallest swing motion to it. The first versions went after high end and boutique, which was smart, but it cut out the biggest part of the bell curve and made them scoff, which I saw plenty in every review I’ve done on one.

So, who overcomes that? The one that tells the story best and is most accessible. It can be done, and I think it will be within the next couple years. But, it’ll have to be done tediously abs very judiciously.

These shafts are the real deal. They work. They make a difference, but when skill level can dilute or make the fact that they work become camouflaged by not being as dramatic as we golfers want to see, it’s a razors edge for the companies to walk.

 

[cm24]

Wasn’t a believer at all initially. Tried the original stroke lab shaft and new version with the odyssey and Toulon putters I got through the Grandaddy and could definitely feel a difference between them. I upgraded to the Blackout Stability shaft and can’t believe how stable it is and how easy to it to control the putter face. I’m definitely a fan!

 

[Jman]

Wasn’t a believer at all initially. Tried the original stroke lab shaft and new version with the odyssey and Toulon putters I got through the Grandaddy and could definitely feel a difference between them. I upgraded to the Blackout Stability shaft and can’t believe how stable it is and how easy to it to control the putter face. I’m definitely a fan!

This is an interesting one because so many out there (not saying you did) still think the SL is the same premise as the other stability driven shafts, and when they try one of the others it’s immediately noticeable how different they really are.

 

[BigMac]

I'm in that lukewarm netherworld between the two extremes. I don't think they're total BS, but I equally don't believe they're going to make a huge difference for *most* people. Honestly, I'll admit that they're probably THE aftermarket thing I'm most skeptical about.

I've had both the OG Stroke Lab (Ten) and the new Stroke Lab (TH5K Triple Wide), because they were what the putters came with. I wouldn't at all object to trying aftermarket putter shafts (maybe I'd be amazed and maybe not), but I certainly won't go spend hundreds on aftermarket shafts in the blind to try them. If I was given one to test/review, or if I had access to a fitter where I could try out different shafts and compare them to each other, I'd be more than happy to give them a shot. If they blew my mind and erased my skepticism, I'd be perfectly okay with that result.

 

[1860VS]

I think it's the placebo effect. But if it works for you, more power to you.

 

[Hitsnmisses]

I think it’s , ( the results you get ) are the sum , Of all parts …

1/ if you play a course that’s less manicured and isn’t running at higher stimp ( country course : bush course ) where maintenance isn’t as intensive or extem

2/ playing when the surface of the green is affected by , weather conditions - moisture from rain / early morning dew/ or irrigation.

3/ wind conditions , l heard today on golf commentary that wind can affect the putter ( head ) l nearly fell out of the chair laughing at that.

4/ the skill set of player , repeatability of stroke , some clearly are better putters than others ( either naturally or by effort of lesson and practice )

5 / l don’t think that the results we see of those on tour are relatable to the average player , hence l think that the differences will be proportionally lessened.

6/ @Jman , suggested that a company maybe have a product at price point more palatable to the broader market . Based on the evidence of new driver straighter longer faster … l imagine the uptake would be quite substantial as we all want to improve .

But doesn’t matter what spices you add to a sh1t sandwich it will always taste bad ….

So if your poor putter , it won’t be the lightsabre you wish for ….

 

[chile]

...So if your poor putter , it won’t be the lightsabre you wish for ….

i think this is it.

 

[aljaklaw]

I have to wonder if the next thing is swappable aftermarket putter shafts

 

[OldandStiff]

I have to wonder if the next thing is swappable aftermarket putter shafts

I can't imagine they would take money out of their pockets like that.

 

[aljaklaw]

I can't imagine they would take money out of their pockets like that.

whose pockets are all the aftermarket [driver] shafts taking money out of?

 

[OldandStiff]

whose pockets are all the aftermarket [driver] shafts taking money out of?

I'm saying the putter manufactureres wouldn't want to make them easily swappable. Something universal. At least not without a price increase. They're kind of stuck in it with drivers, but they don't even usually want to give us that convenience in fairways anymore. Putter shaft swaps aren't all that complicated to begin with, and are nearly universal. Only a couple diferences between things. And the retro tip on the All-In seems interesting, but it's still all going to require club work without some kind of adapter.

 

[tahoebum]

They can certainly help but for many golfers putting lessons would help them shave more strokes.

 

[drb1956]

They can certainly help but for many golfers putting lessons would help them shave more strokes.

This is not meant to be argumentative, but a point that is stuck in my head. I can see a shaft for a putter being able to be "more stable" to a point, but is it really going to help sink more putts? I can see where the face loft could also help. The "confidence thing", IMO, is real. Style of putter helps too! But, in the end, you really have to "READ THE LINE", to get the most benefit out of all of the above. A shaft is NOT going to make a putter "automatic" to the hole! Some of the conversation going on here about shafts, and one in particular, like it is going to be a "green savior", and your putting is suddenly going to be resurrected, is a little far fetched. Granted, IT WILL help, but if you don't read the putt correctly, all is for naught! I changed putters 2 years ago, and do I putt better? Maybe, but I still have read the green to get the best result. I know my distance control IS better, but for the money, I not going all out on aftermarket shafts, especially if they are a few $100's! I don't play enough, and most amatuers, I bet, just don't PRACTICE putting enough to really make a difference in their game. I know that I don't. Granted, some ams practice for hours, but most probably don't. Hitting a bucket at the range is what most if us do, as most ams finding that getting out of the tee box is the most difficult part of our game, trying to stay in the fairway, along with getting out of a greenside bunker. I don't think I am too far off on that thought. In the end, if you think it is going to help you be a better putter, it's your money, but like all else in golf, practice, and lessons are better spent dollars...

 

[Jman]

I have to wonder if the next thing is swappable aftermarket putter shafts

Nah. Too many things in play, including finding how to make it USGA approved.