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Is Colin Montgomerie Worthy of the Hall of Fame?

Smallville said:
Next thing you know, you'll be saying that Tiger is worthy of being in the Hall of Fame. hehehe
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Nah...he does't deserve to get in.?


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bobgeorge said:
Good article on why Monty deserves in the HOF:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-of-fame?utm_source=pulse&utm_medium=referral

Also, according to this article Tiger is #3 on the European tour as far as all-time wins go.
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Very good article - I'd argue that having a tour with Langer, Faldo, Woosnam, Seve, Lyle etc on is not weak as some have suggested.

It's also the 'World Hall of Fame' so not winning in the PGA Tour is irrelevant. The only thing missing is the Major - look how many seconds, plus two playoffs.

He's without a doubt the best player to never win one.

For me he defiantly deserves to be in - 7 Orders of Merit in a row, and a record 8 in total.

31 wins - it's pretty difficult to win any pro event let alone 31 of them.


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I'd probably give him the nod for his Euro dominance. His starring role as Mrs Doubtfire is a plus.
 
He really shouldve won the 2006 us open, if he hits the last green, he's the champ.

He.deserves it, 31 wins, 5 runner up in majors, RC legend as a player and captain.

A lot more deserving than some of the folk in there. Tiger woods messed up the entries cos he dominated for so long, taking all the majors, tournament wins making it harder for golfers to meet entry requirements.

Lastly its ridiculous that Laura Davies is not in the women hall of fame.
 
Hawk said:
Yesterday, it was announced that Colin Montgomerie, along with four others, will be inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame.

His vote tally was rather weak. According to USA Today, "Montgomerie received 51 percent of the vote on the international ballot. That makes two inductees in this class — Couples was the other — who got in through a special provision. If no one gets the minimum 65 percent, the player with the most votes gets elected as long as it's more than 50 percent.'

Here are a few numbers to look at -

31 European Tour wins
0 PGA Tour Wins
0 Major wins
Top 10 in 10/72 Major Appearances
Ryder Cup record of 20-9-7 - second most points behind Nick Faldo

Do you feel like he deserves this selection?
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I dont think so. Yeah, good ryder cup stats and good euro tour, but nah. Was never a huge fan of monty.
 
the_paulo said:
I'd like to ask a similar question on here about a player with 31 PGA tour wins and no majors, just out of interest to see if the opinion would be different.
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Interesting question, and curious that no one has addressed it.

I think most people here would believe a guy with 31 PGA TOUR victories, yet no majors, would deserve entry into the World Golf Hall of Fame.

Most people perceive the PGA TOUR to be much deeper and stronger than the European Tour, and that would account for their decision.

But Colin was racking up those 31 victories and eight money titles (seven consecutive!) during a strong era of that tour.
 
Im not so sure about that actually. And I am also not so sure that "most" would call that a "strong era of that tour". Big names such as Seve and Faldo were on the downside. But take any guy out there and say they are 0fer any time they tee it up with the best in the world regardless of location and to some that says more than it does for others.
 
My feeling is that all professional sports HOF's have become irreversibly diluted. The need to cash in on an annual HOF induction ceremony requires good but not great athletes to be inducted. The result is that the intent is destroyed.

Colin was a good golfer, but is he HOF worthy? Not in my opinion.
 
Yea - The Whiners Hall of Fame

Golf - not even close, unless Frank Beard is in there.... wait a minute, I think Frank Beard actually won on the PGA Tour.

Maybe Monty should make the Euro Golf HOF.
 
Slammin'SAM said:
Golf - not even close, unless Frank Beard is in there.... wait a minute, I think Frank Beard actually won on the PGA Tour.
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Good ol' Frank Beard did more than that, my friend. Many people forget, or never knew, that Frankie won the PGA TOUR money title in 1969, the same year Orville Moody won the U.S. Open, his only victory on TOUR.

1969 may have been a great year for the Amazin' Mets, and it was the year we put a man on the moon, but it really wasn't a memorable year on the PGA TOUR. :)
 
I would say no. I think the HOF should only be for the all-time greats and for me, Monty isn't one of them. But then again, it seems like all sports are lowering their standards to get into the HOF, I guess golf is no different.
 
Simple answer no I just don't think he did enough.
 
JB said:
Im not so sure about that actually. And I am also not so sure that "most" would call that a "strong era of that tour". Big names such as Seve and Faldo were on the downside. But take any guy out there and say they are 0fer any time they tee it up with the best in the world regardless of location and to some that says more than it does for others.
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Faldo won the Masters in 96 - smack bang in the middle of when Monty was tearing up the European Tour.

He won at Wentworth at least once from memory an event which brings out the best players on the European Tour.

31 wins is incredible, his record is only really second to players like Phil, Tiger, Ernie, Vijay in that era - players with multiple majors and multiple tour wins.

You'd also have to concede he's had a much better career than players such as:

Beem
Michele
Yang
Campbell
Curtis
Hamilton
Simpson
Glover
Watson

For me the fact he never won on the PGA Tour is completely and utterly irrelevant - a major less so and is the only thing missing on an otherwise amazing career.


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I really dont think my side of the debate has much to do with the PGA Tour, although I do believe it was a far deeper tour during his career. When I said "teed it up with the best in the world" I was referring to the WGC and Majors and his record stands for itself.

As for the list of players, I dont think anybody would think they are HOFers. They won a single major and did little else.

The truth is, the voters agreed. He did not get enough votes to get into the Hall of Fame. Only a rule change (which waters down the "shrine") made him qualify.
 
Xt1ncT-NZ said:
Faldo won the Masters in 96 - smack bang in the middle of when Monty was tearing up the European Tour.

He won at Wentworth at least once from memory an event which brings out the best players on the European Tour.

31 wins is incredible, his record is only really second to players like Phil, Tiger, Ernie, Vijay in that era - players with multiple majors and multiple tour wins.

You'd also have to concede he's had a much better career than players such as:

Beem
Michele
Yang
Campbell
Curtis
Hamilton
Simpson
Glover
Watson

For me the fact he never won on the PGA Tour is completely and utterly irrelevant - a major less so and is the only thing missing on an otherwise amazing career.


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Faldo won one more tournament in his career, less than a year after the 1996 Masters. I would say that his Masters win was in the downside of his career. Beginning in 1997, he missed the cut in 7 of 12 majors. That wasn't the downside?

Nicklaus won the Masters at age 46 in 1986. Did that win put Jack back into his prime? No.
 
Xt1ncT-NZ said:
Faldo won the Masters in 96 - smack bang in the middle of when Monty was tearing up the European Tour.

He won at Wentworth at least once from memory an event which brings out the best players on the European Tour.

31 wins is incredible, his record is only really second to players like Phil, Tiger, Ernie, Vijay in that era - players with multiple majors and multiple tour wins.

You'd also have to concede he's had a much better career than players such as:

Beem
Michele
Yang
Campbell
Curtis
Hamilton
Simpson
Glover
Watson

For me the fact he never won on the PGA Tour is completely and utterly irrelevant - a major less so and is the only thing missing on an otherwise amazing career.


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Since you mentioned the above golfers as his contemporaries, how many times did he beat these guys in his career? He dominated the euro tour when the best in the world wee calling the PGA tour home. 31 wins is impressive but not HOF impressive especially without a major or a win on US soil.
 
not worthy
 
To the Monty supporters, why do you guys think he could never win a major, WGC event, or PGA event. Why was he so successful on the European tour but could never win the big events or PGA events?
 
Wake said:
To the Monty supporters, why do you guys think he could never win a major, WGC event, or PGA event. Why was he so successful on the European tour but could never win the big events or PGA events?
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I think Colin put a little too much pressure on himself. I think he wanted to prove that he was in the same class as Tiger, Phil, Vijay, Ernie and Retief. He wanted it so badly that he kind of got in his own way.

I'm sure Colin believed he was the best golfer on the European Tour, so the pressure was reduced, and that freed him to play his best.

The Ryder Cup is an entirely different dynamic because of its team nature. You always know that you have guys who can pick you up.
 
Wake said:
To the Monty supporters, why do you guys think he could never win a major, WGC event, or PGA event. Why was he so successful on the European tour but could never win the big events or PGA events?
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On the PGA Tour I dont believe it was as important to his as the European Tour. From memory he won an event which was held in England which was a pre-cursor to the WGC Tournaments which pretty much all got moved to the US (not sure how they are 'World' events if only held in the US but that's another argument).

Not winning a Major is the only blight on an otherwise amazing career.

Another question - is it just Tour wins and Major wins that contribute to being in the HOF or do other things come into it?

I only really got into golf in around 1993/94 which was right when he was tearing it up. We didn't get much coverage in England of the PGA Tour back then, other than Majors so to someone like me he was a major golfing influence, and the same would be said for other Europeans. Then you add in his Ryder Cup influence it just seems a no brainer.

I really think a lot of the people who say he isn't worthy place too much stock in not winning in the US and probably ind it hard to look at it objectively.

Look at it this way, other than Lee Westwood no other golfer since Monty has won more than one order of merit.

Monty won 8.

No other golfer dice him has got anywhere near the 31 wins - Lee being about the closest.

He is without a doubt the best player to never win a major and likely always will be - if he's not, who is?

Taking all of the above into account - wins, orders of merit, RC influence - surely that means he deserves it?


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Xt1ncT-NZ said:
On the PGA Tour I dont believe it was as important to his as the European Tour. From memory he won an event which was held in England which was a pre-cursor to the WGC Tournaments which pretty much all got moved to the US (not sure how they are 'World' events if only held in the US but that's another argument).

Not winning a Major is the only blight on an otherwise amazing career.

Another question - is it just Tour wins and Major wins that contribute to being in the HOF or do other things come into it?

I only really got into golf in around 1993/94 which was right when he was tearing it up. We didn't get much coverage in England of the PGA Tour back then, other than Majors so to someone like me he was a major golfing influence, and the same would be said for other Europeans. Then you add in his Ryder Cup influence it just seems a no brainer.

I really think a lot of the people who say he isn't worthy place too much stock in not winning in the US and probably ind it hard to look at it objectively.

Look at it this way, other than Lee Westwood no other golfer since Monty has won more than one order of merit.

Monty won 8.

No other golfer dice him has got anywhere near the 31 wins - Lee being about the closest.

He is without a doubt the best player to never win a major and likely always will be - if he's not, who is?

Taking all of the above into account - wins, orders of merit, RC influence - surely that means he deserves it?


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I wouldn't put as much stock in the lack of PGA and WGC wins if he just didn't play in them. But he tried and failed quite a few times. You could make up all the excuses you want but he never could win against the top talent in the world at the time. That has to mean something.
 
Xt1ncT-NZ said:
On the PGA Tour I dont believe it was as important to his as the European Tour. From memory he won an event which was held in England which was a pre-cursor to the WGC Tournaments which pretty much all got moved to the US (not sure how they are 'World' events if only held in the US but that's another argument).

Not winning a Major is the only blight on an otherwise amazing career.

Another question - is it just Tour wins and Major wins that contribute to being in the HOF or do other things come into it?

I only really got into golf in around 1993/94 which was right when he was tearing it up. We didn't get much coverage in England of the PGA Tour back then, other than Majors so to someone like me he was a major golfing influence, and the same would be said for other Europeans. Then you add in his Ryder Cup influence it just seems a no brainer.

I really think a lot of the people who say he isn't worthy place too much stock in not winning in the US and probably ind it hard to look at it objectively.

Look at it this way, other than Lee Westwood no other golfer since Monty has won more than one order of merit.

Monty won 8.

No other golfer dice him has got anywhere near the 31 wins - Lee being about the closest.

He is without a doubt the best player to never win a major and likely always will be - if he's not, who is?

Taking all of the above into account - wins, orders of merit, RC influence - surely that means he deserves it?


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As I said earlier, 31 wins is impressive. But he never beat the big boys, he always beat those on the euro tour. When push came to shove he could close the deal at the Honda classic, Us open, WGCs. He folded like a cheap lawn chair when away from his 'home course' of sorts. He was not a world beater by any stretch. His euro tour contemporaries Rose, Westwood, Faldo, Donald, Harrington, Poults, Jose Maria have beaten him and the best in the world. Monty can only lay claim to a soft euro tour that may have been weaker than the Web.com tour at the time.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Monty can only lay claim to a soft euro tour that may have been weaker than the Web.com tour at the time.
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really? Weaker than the Nationwide Tour?

If your argument resorts to that there's no point even putting across reasoned debate. The fact of the matter is he beat all comers on the Tour he wanted to play and where he was comfortable. Sure he wasn't as comfortable in the US as he could have been but that doesn't take away from his 31 wins.

He won the PGA at Wentworth 3 consecutive times - this event is considered as an equal in status to the Euros as the Players is to the US.

He spent 400 weeks in the Top 10 in the world, highest ranking 2.

He won all over the World:

England
Scotland
Sweden
Dubai
Hong Kong
Spain
He won the 1997 Andersen Consulting World Championship of Golf - a forerunner to the WGCs
South Africa
China
Australia
America (ok that was the Skins Challenge :) )

I suggest that this career is better than almost everyone who played in his era. The only Europeans with better careers would be Faldo, and maybe Jose-Maria.

Langer's career was pretty much over by the time Monty came good, as was Seve's.

There's really no one from his era on the US Tour with a comparable record either - Phil, Ernie and Vijay about the only ones who could compare, and of course Tiger who didn't really turn up until Monty started to decline.

At the end of the day I get it - you don't like him and you don't like to let facts and his record get in the way.




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Xt1ncT-NZ said:
really? Weaker than the Nationwide Tour?

If your argument resorts to that there's no point even putting across reasoned debate. The fact of the matter is he beat all comers on the Tour he wanted to play and where he was comfortable. Sure he wasn't as comfortable in the US as he could have been but that doesn't take away from his 31 wins.

He won the PGA at Wentworth 3 consecutive times - this event is considered as an equal in status to the Euros as the Players is to the US.

He spent 400 weeks in the Top 10 in the world, highest ranking 2.

He won all over the World:

England
Scotland
Sweden
Dubai
Hong Kong
Spain
He won the 1997 Andersen Consulting World Championship of Golf - a forerunner to the WGCs
South Africa
China
Australia
America (ok that was the Skins Challenge :) )

I suggest that this career is better than almost everyone who played in his era. The only Europeans with better careers would be Faldo, and maybe Jose-Maria.

Langer's career was pretty much over by the time Monty came good, as was Seve's.

There's really no one from his era on the US Tour with a comparable record either - Phil, Ernie and Vijay about the only ones who could compare, and of course Tiger who didn't really turn up until Monty started to decline.

At the end of the day I get it - you don't like him and you don't like to let facts and his record get in the way.




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It's not personal, the facts are he never could win the big events. He was a very good player, no one is denying that. I just think someone who never could get it done against top competition is worthy of the Hall of Fame.
 
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