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Par 3's on tour, some just way too long?

Tadashi70

Tadashi70

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Luke_Donald Luke Donald by TimJVickers
"Why do architects insist on these 240+ yard par 3's. No thought, not fun and unimaginative" Twitter quote

This got me thinking, are designers getting out of control with the length of this Par 3s? Is 240 plus too long? What is an exceptable distance? Whar features would you add to enhance the hole?

One of the most intimidating par 3s in the #17 (TPC Sawgrass) and it plays 145. Or #7 at Peable Beach or the Postage stamp of in the UK. All short by current standards but all very challenging. So what is too long?
 
I think a 240 yard par 3 is too long. I am not a fan at all. I was looking at the yardages of the par 3's at the AAC for the PGA last night and the shortest one is like 190. I love par 3's where the pros hit 8, 9, and PW's into them, especially when there's just death all around the green.
 
In my opinion if it can't be reached with an iron from the tee box it is too long for a par three. This is a very general statement as I think it depends on other factors such as hazards and how well the green is protected.
 
If the yardage starts with a "2", it's too long of a par three. If I have to take out a wood to play a tee shot, it should be at least a par four!
 
For me...I would say anything over 190 is too long. I really enjoy the par 3's ranging from 130 to 165.

It can be made plenty challenging from 150 with various hazards, slope of green, pin placement, etc.
 
I hate long par 3's with a passion. I see no reason for a par 3 over 200 yards from the standard men's tees unless there is an elevation change.
 
I think anything over 210ish is too long. To me or my expectations, a pro should be within 15ft of the pin on a par 3. And to expect better than that with more than a 6 or 7 iron is pretty tough again IMO. But I'm definitely not of that caliber of accuracy by any means so I guess I really don't have anything better than my unguided answer. I think if Luke Donald is #1 in the world and says 240 is too long I can't really argue with that.
 
mcook77 said:
For me...I would say anything over 190 is too long. I really enjoy the par 3's ranging from 130 to 165.

It can be made plenty challenging from 150 with various hazards, slope of green, pin placement, etc.
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Exactly right! I hate the 190+ par 3s no fun IMO
 
I also get annoyed when all of the par 3's on a course are longer than 160-170. I like to have one or two that I can hit with an 8 or 9 iron.
 
The par 3s at my home course are 202, 169, 164 and 225. The 225 is brutal with sand and water on the sides and kills me
 
Anything over 220 is too long. I do enjoy playing courses that have one long par 3 in the 220 range, but I don't want to play every par 3 over 190. Design has a lot to do with it too. 220 wide open with no trouble and a large receptive green is easier to me than 160 with trouble everywhere and a crazy green. But, I love tough par 3's regardless of length, unless it's over 220ish. Obviously the pros can't do this in a tournament, but if I'm playing with buddies that have no chance from a certain tee on a par 3 I'll have us play from an up tee.


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I loved the Par 3's at PGA National. They just seemed to get progressively longer but nothing more than a 5 iron (depending on the wind). Good fun, those par 3's. Same as at Windermere CC.
 
I do the same. One of our courses has a 235 yard par 3. That's a driver for me.

Another has one that ranges between 220 and 240 uphill. Again, I'm most likely laying up. Just stupid.

Fairway2Green said:
Anything over 220 is too long. I do enjoy playing courses that have one long par 3 in the 220 range, but I don't want to play every par 3 over 190. Design has a lot to do with it too. 220 wide open with no trouble and a large receptive green is easier to me than 160 with trouble everywhere and a crazy green. But, I love tough par 3's regardless of length, unless it's over 220ish. Obviously the pros can't do this in a tournament, but if I'm playing with buddies that have no chance from a certain tee on a par 3 I'll have us play from an up tee.


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Hawk said:
I also get annoyed when all of the par 3's on a course are longer than 160-170. I like to have one or two that I can hit with an 8 or 9 iron.
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I like par 3's to be 170 or so tops. I like to see a couple in the 140-160 range and the other 120 or 130. Matched up with one that is 170 or so, and I think that is fair to me. If all of them are longer than 160-170, then I am playing from the wrong tee box.
 
Played a 236 yard par 3 today...not fun at all. Not because of the length but because as the quote says it doesn't make you think about anything but the distance.
 
Anything with a two in front is too long. Make the hole tricky - plenty of bunkers, water hazards, trees, difficult green, etc. To me the best par 3's are the short ones - 17th at Sawgrass has been mentioned, Postage Stamp at Troon, 12th at Augusta. I think the need to have a long course is a strange one as it takes away a lot of enjoyment for the fans. I don't know about anyone else but I like seeing birdies made and low scores shot.
 
Smallville said:
I like par 3's to be 170 or so tops. I like to see a couple in the 140-160 range and the other 120 or 130. Matched up with one that is 170 or so, and I think that is fair to me. If all of them are longer than 160-170, then I am playing from the wrong tee box.
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I'd like to say that too, but I've played courses here that have long par threes, but the rest of the course is normal length. Like F2G said, I will just move up a tee box or two. I've played the 235 yarder from the reds before and it was still 180.
 
sounds like my argument against gimmicky long par 4s.
 
Thechosen1 said:
Played a 236 yard par 3 today...not fun at all. Not because of the length but because as the quote says it doesn't make you think about anything but the distance.
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What course in DE has a 236 yard par 3?
 
OEM Kevin said:
What course in DE has a 236 yard par 3?
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we're down in FL actually but I have played a course in DE that has something close to that I'll look it up when I get the chance.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Luke_Donald Luke Donald by TimJVickers
"Why do architects insist on these 240+ yard par 3's. No thought, not fun and unimaginative" Twitter quote

This got me thinking, are designers getting out of control with the length of this Par 3s? Is 240 plus too long? What is an exceptable distance? Whar features would you add to enhance the hole?

One of the most intimidating par 3s in the #17 (TPC Sawgrass) and it plays 145. Or #7 at Peable Beach or the Postage stamp of in the UK. All short by current standards but all very challenging. So what is too long?
Click to expand...

Luke Donald's comment on Twitter was in response to Stewart Cink, who is playing a practice round today at Atlanta Athletic Club. He posted a picture of the 15th hole, which has been lengthened to 260 yards from the back tee! Here is the picture that Cink posted of the view from the tee:

x2_76ad29c


For the pros, I'd say anything over 230 yards is getting a little long for them, but then again some guys are able to hit irons over 200 yards. Sergio Garcia, John Daly and Davis Love III just played a 212 yard par 3 at the Greenbrier tournament and all of them hit 7 iron! They play a game that is completely different than all of us.

For me, anything at 200 yards or above is a hybrid or fairway wood, and that gets pretty difficult at times. There are definitely ways to make shorter par 3's difficult with sizing of greens and trouble around the greens. One of the courses I play is only about 120-130 yards to the center of the green based on tee location, but the green is very narrow with a deep bunker on the left and a dropoff on the right. It's a pretty challenging hole, but what is interesting is that I played that hole one time with the assistant pro, and he said the course has trouble keeping the green in good shape because so many people are hitting high-lofted clubs into that green and not fixing pitch marks all that much, so the green is never in good shape. Who knows if that's a reason that architects are getting away from building good short par 3's.

One other thing: most courses will have 4 par 3's, and I like when a course makes me hit different clubs off of all of those holes. It's silly if I'm hitting the exact same club or very similar clubs on all of the par 3's.
 
I don't mind 1 long par 3 but 2 or more gets old. The course I played today had 2 longer par 3's. The first was ( with GPS ) 191 and I hit 4 iron on the green. The 2nd was 206 and I hit my 3H and was just short, still pared it. To me if there going to be long, leave a big area open in case a hook, slice comes into play and it wont ruin the hole.
 
Thechosen1 said:
we're down in FL actually but I have played a course in DE that has something close to that I'll look it up when I get the chance.
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I see. Not too many courses that long in DE so I was curious.
 
Was just thinking about this yesterday when I was thinking about slow play. At one of the muni's I play there is a par 3 that plays 218 from the blue tee. You play over a creek to an elevated green. To me, for a public course, that is just ridiculous. The reason this came to mind is every time I have played this course, this hole plays so slow. On this particular hole, you can't even use the "you're playing from the wrong tee" argument. I lazered it from the front tee with the pin in the middle and it still played 162. Lot of people are going to struggle with that one, even from the front tee.
 
TC said:
I loved the Par 3's at PGA National. They just seemed to get progressively longer but nothing more than a 5 iron (depending on the wind). Good fun, those par 3's. Same as at Windermere CC.
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Grand Cypress is the same, good mid length par 3s that require asolid swing.


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