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Par 3's on tour, some just way too long?

IMO, anything longer than 240 yards is too long for a par 3. Personally, I find a par 3 that has lots of trouble around the green (water, bunkers, elevated green) to be a lot more challenging than a shot that is long.
Theres a course around here that has a 235 yard par 3 but its a straight hole with no trouble in front of the green and the green is huge, so you can just pull 3-wood or driver, land it a little short of the green and just let it roll up onto the green. Theres nothing difficult about that.
 
I play one course with a 210 yarder from the middle tees, the hole always plays with a left to right wind. Long and/or right is trouble, down a 20' bank. I hope to someday par the hole.

Par 3 from the middle should play >140 <200 for me.
 
I think it really comes down to weekend golfers, even serious ones like me, not hitting long irons well and certainly not getting the distance out of them. Hybrids only fixes this partway. I play 4 and 5 hybrids instead of irons. But my 4 is only 200 max. And that's only with a perfect hit for me. If I have a 210 yard par 3 I'm hitting a fairway wood :(


One solution to me is that on these long par 3 the typical mens tees should be moved up more then normal from the tips. And I would say the same for those really long par 4's.

Like I mentioned in the long Par 4 thread, this is kinda why slope rating exists. Bogey golfers just really struggle more on certain types of long holes then scratch golfers compared to other holes.

I've seen golfers use driver to get to some par 3's. That's just not right. We have 4 sets of tees at my course. The tips, white is one up, then gold and red. Gold and red are way to up, I'd have too many par 4's that are reachable with driver and half the par 3 would just be pitch shots, every par 5 but one would be reachable in 2 with proper hits.

But we're bogey golfers so hey, it doesn't kill us to bite the man card and play a par 3 as a par 4 and lay up.
 
Long par 3s bother me more now than they used to since I've lost about 10 yards in my long irons. The sixteenth at our club can be from 190 to 225 from the back tees. It is a par 3.5 when the pin is back because there is no bail area except short. But that is not the par 3 that causes the most trouble for me. The 14th is 160-175 with water front and left of the green OB behind it and bunkers right and gives me fits.
 
I definitely agree that par threes should be less than 200 from the whites, but maybe it's a Florida thing or the courses I play, I've never come across a par three that was more than 200 from the whites. I do understand and agree with that argument. If you're playing the whites or forward men's tees there shouldn't be excessively long par threes, but don't do away with them all together for the rest of us who play further back and enjoy them. I hope that makes sense.
 
JWLI said:
250 yard par 3's are not new or modern inventions.
The USGA standard for par 3's measuring up to 250 yards has been on the books for almost 100 years.
The architects today are just designing holes that reflect the distances generated by today's players.

I think that they haven't done so in the past because until, say, the last ten years or so only a small percentage of players could comfortably or competitively negotiate a 240 to 250 yd. par 3.
But with technology what it is today and with players routinely getting huge distances that were virtually unheard of a decade ago, designers are stretching par 3's to keep pace.

Personally, I actually enjoy a long par 3 and several courses near me have them and I get a kick out of playing them.
I wouldn't want four of them on a course, but one per round is fine with me.
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Would you rather watch a pro(in real life from behind him at the hole) hit into a green 250 yards away with water around it or would you rather see him hit into a 155 yard par 3 with water surrounding it on all sides. My question is which is more exciting? I would say the 155 yard par 3 because it's a more controlling club(9 irons I guess) and it turns more into a birdie hole compared to a par hole.
 
I have no issue with one long par three on a course. I love a short, challenging , intimidating one as much as the next guy, but nothing wrong with throwing in a long one. A par 3 is a hole designed to have players hit irons off the tee into the green, and a long par three doesn't prevent that. I think a course should make players hit a range of clubs off of its par threes from a gap wedge to a 3 iron with some in between. They may not be imaginative as Donald said, but that is one way to make them more challenging. I would love a course to have 4 par threes with distances 140, 170, 200, 230 or something around that. That would have pros hitting PW/GW, 8i/7i, 6i/5i, and 4i/3i into them depending on the conditions.
 
Thechosen1 said:
Would you rather watch a pro(in real life from behind him at the hole) hit into a green 250 yards away with water around it or would you rather see him hit into a 155 yard par 3 with water surrounding it on all sides. My question is which is more exciting? I would say the 155 yard par 3 because it's a more controlling club(9 irons I guess) and it turns more into a birdie hole compared to a par hole.
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But par 3s should be looked at as par holes in my opinion. Looking for birdies on par 3s usually leads to trouble.
 
Thechosen1 said:
Would you rather watch a pro(in real life from behind him at the hole) hit into a green 250 yards away with water around it or would you rather see him hit into a 155 yard par 3 with water surrounding it on all sides. My question is which is more exciting? I would say the 155 yard par 3 because it's a more controlling club(9 irons I guess) and it turns more into a birdie hole compared to a par hole.
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155 hands down.

From a spectator's point of view it's more fun to watch because you'd see real attempts at scoring instead of a pro just trying to survive the hole.
But from a challenge point of view, one really long par 3 is OK with me.

There's a course I play with a par 3 that's called "Gibraltar" because of the elevated green that sort of sticks out into the bay and is flanked on the left by a marina (so it kind of resembles the Rock of Gibralter).
The tee is elevated as well so it's basically a level shot but it stretches out to 211 yards and almost always plays into a stiff right-to-left wind.
I remember one day where the wind was a steady 25 to 30 mph and was coming from about the 3 o'clock position.
I striped a 2-iron which I aimed at the next tee's ball washer which was about 50 yards to the right of the green I was playing to.
The ball turned with the wind, landed on the fringe of the green, bounced left, rolled all the way across the green (about 80 ft. or so) and came to rest on the far side.
That was a blast!

I wouldn't want that shot on every par 3, but this hole is a bit of a local legend and everybody has a story to tell about it.
 
Longish par 3's are always going to be the toughest holes in general for us amatures.
240 yards is a bit ridiculous. I would say that 210 is the max that a designer should use for general play.
Of course they can always leave room for a PGA tee box for tournaments.
 
Fairway2Green said:
Anything over 220 is too long. I do enjoy playing courses that have one long par 3 in the 220 range, but I don't want to play every par 3 over 190. Design has a lot to do with it too. 220 wide open with no trouble and a large receptive green is easier to me than 160 with trouble everywhere and a crazy green. But, I love tough par 3's regardless of length, unless it's over 220ish. Obviously the pros can't do this in a tournament, but if I'm playing with buddies that have no chance from a certain tee on a par 3 I'll have us play from an up tee.


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Agreed. There's a 238 yard Par 3 here, uphill and into the wind. Everyone of us was hitting 3 woods into it yesterday.
 
After whining in this thread yesterday, I made birdie on #16 today. It was playing 217 which was a well struck 3I and 12 foot putt. It doesn't happen often. This was the second birdie on 16 for the year but I did miss a couple of short putts at it in the past month.
 
TC said:
I think a 240 yard par 3 is too long. I am not a fan at all. I was looking at the yardages of the par 3's at the AAC for the PGA last night and the shortest one is like 190. I love par 3's where the pros hit 8, 9, and PW's into them, especially when there's just death all around the green.
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Very well said. A 240 yard par 3 for me would be with a driver. That is not what I want in par 3. I might play a course once with par 3's of that length, but I would not be returning. There has to be a mix of tee shot clubs throughout the bag. For us hackers, 150 yard par 3's is plenty long. 110 to 130 is better and about right.
 
If I am hitting more than a 6 iron, it is too freaking long.
 
240 is a 9I for me.....


Seriously, do they expect us to hit 3W into it or what? Any hole where you can't hit an iron (or 3h) is too damn long. Make them fun with water all around it.
 
the par 3's at my home course are:

5th: 153 yards (-1 to 2 clubs downhill, guarded by bunkers, entire right side slopes down a big hill)
8th: 153 yards (+1 or 2 clubs uphill)

12th: 144 yards (-1 club downhill and everything slopes off the green, water left)
18th: 192 yards (two tiered green, water left and long, cartpath and parking lot OB right, plays slightly downhill).

The first 3 are reletively short but provide decent challenges based on the slopes and the last hole is pretty nasty when the wind picks up off the lake. I've only birdied the 5th and the 12th, the 8th and 18th are still holding out on me.

Anything longer than 215 to me is a bit excessive and pretty unimaginitive in my book.
 
In my opinion if you think the par 3s are too long, move up a teebox. Chances are the par 4s and par 5s are too long too.

I think the line should be drawn at 245
 
The two most popular & most fun holes on the PGA tour are probably #17 at Sawgrass & #16 at the TPC Scottsdale. 137 & 165 yards I think.
 
I'm not very long so anything over 175 isn't a par 3 for me.
 
I played in tournament a few weeks ago where we played from the tips on the back nine making one par 3 220 yards into the wind. Thats a fricking driver for me boys, lol. Actually I put it over by just a tad, but had I been able to hit it a little higher and balloon it would have been a great shot. I don't enjoy having a lot of shots like that, but I do enjoy the diverity, they had one that was 140 from the tips as well.
 
Thainer said:
In my opinion if you think the par 3s are too long, move up a teebox. Chances are the par 4s and par 5s are too long too.

I think the line should be drawn at 245
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That's not always true though found that out yesterday
 
Thainer said:
In my opinion if you think the par 3s are too long, move up a teebox. Chances are the par 4s and par 5s are too long too.

I think the line should be drawn at 245
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+1 Thainer....play what ever tee box you want but then you really should except the length from that tee box


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It's really amazing how they are stretching courses for us regular folk honestly. I am uncomfortable playing a par 3 that is over 180-190.
 
Thainer said:
In my opinion if you think the par 3s are too long, move up a teebox. Chances are the par 4s and par 5s are too long too.

I think the line should be drawn at 245
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Tadashi70 said:
+1 Thainer....play what ever tee box you want but then you really should except the length from that tee box


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That sounds logical, but it isn't reality. One course I play (6,300 yards from whites) has 1) 205 yard par 3 and 2) 225-240 yard par 3 - uphill. The next set of tees plays in the 5,500 yard range. That's too short. It's poor design, imo.
 
Hawk said:
That sounds logical, but it isn't reality. One course I play (6,300 yards from whites) has 1) 205 yard par 3 and 2) 225-240 yard par 3 - uphill. The next set of tees plays in the 5,500 yard range. That's too short. It's poor design, imo.
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That is crazy, those are some long holes for the yardage. 6300 down here might get you one or two mid length par 3. Take it back to 6700 then they get up to 200+, 7000 will get you 225+.


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