SCOR System Review - Forum Testing

Thanks for chiming in SCORShawn. I do have one question. Since there are more than a few sets with 40* 9 irons why stop/start the set at 41*? I have theories, but I would like to hear from you guys on this.

Griff - The quick answer is because there are almost an equal amount of golfers playing with 40° 8 irons as there are playing with 40° 9 irons. More of the recent "game improvement" irons designed for forgiveness and distance have 40° 9 irons...we'd recommend to certain skill levels staying with those designs for the 9 iron, especially if they have trouble getting a nice 9 iron trajectory on a consistent basis.

When designing SCOR4161, our goal was to bridge the forgiving characteristics of mid-iron designs with the precision of blade style wedges...much the same way hybrids bridge long irons and fairway woods. The design process considered the types of shots we golfers hit with these clubs, but also the loft gap issues between short irons and wedges and the disconnect between shaft offerings for irons / wedges. We found that shot goals of "forgiveness/higher ball flight" begins to transition to "distance control" between the 8 iron and 9 iron for most golfers.

Over the past 30 years, lofts for brand name iron sets have been as follows:

  • 7 iron - 33.95°...with a range of 30° to 37°
  • 8 Iron - 37.95°...with a range of 34 to 41°
  • 9 Iron - 42.02°...with a range of 39 to 46°
  • Pitching Wedge - 46.27°...with a range of 42.5 to 50°
The standard in 1983 was 36° on 7 irons, 40° on 8 irons, 45° on 9 irons and 50° on pitching wedges. Today, the standard is 33-37-41-45 respectively. It is a known fact that lofts have continued to strengthen in irons...due to the quest for greater distance...and iron designs with lower center of masses to help hit the ball higher (only way to keep trajectory down is stronger loft).

I can tell you that during the development of SCORFit, about 40% of the time our starting point was a 38° 8 iron. At perfect 4° increments, that yielded a set of 42-46-50-54-58. At 5° increments, 43-48-53-58...for the player only carrying two wedges, excluding the PW...most likely due to an additional fairway wood/hybrid/long iron. We also discovered there really wasn't a "one size fits all" solution, so in the spirit of flexibility and power to the golfer, we decided the right way to do it was to offer every single loft...from 41 to 61°.

SCORFit not only focuses on the loft/gap issues, but also shaft fit...the goal being to have a shaft in your wedges that matches the feel of the shafts in your irons. Thus, we offer two different shaft materials in three different weights and four flexes.

The reality is all of this information is interesting...but at the end of the day, the goal is to get the ball in the hole. And it really doesn't make a difference whether it was a 42° club that has an 8 or a 9 or a 42 on the bottom of it.

Why don't you make a full set? We believe golfers want to shoot lower scores...and if you want to shoot lower scores, you need a better short game. Thus, with SCOR Golf, we focus our efforts on equipment designed to do just that, give you more confidence in your short game. And as good as we know SCOR4161 is...and as one of the testers mentioned in an earlier post...it is not a miracle drug, simply an over the counter pain killer. We golfers have to make the effort to practice and improve technique.

Shawn,

I really like the Eidolon Company and your concept. You are unique because you guys step out of the box, specialize in one area and most important, tailor each club to each customer. Lie Angle, Length, Shaft Flex... I love my Eidolon wedges and when they wear out, I will call you up for some new Scor's.

However, I would love to see your research that shows blade style irons are more forgiving than perimeter weighted clubs, specifically for higher handicap golfers. Directionally, maybe. Distance loss, come on. 20 plus handicaps swings change daily, therefore they need all the help they can get.

I hope Eidolon grows strategically and keeps it's focus on the "Scoring Clubs". The day you sell out and attempt to market everything from the driver to the putter, will be the day you lose your edge.

In addition, I sincerely hope you resist the current trend of coming out with new clubs every two years to keep up with the "Jones's". You are in a unique position. Wedges need replaced more often anyway. Fresher grooves alone give us a reason to update.

We need more Seemore's and Eidolon's in the market. Goodluck!!!

Grinder

Thanks for your kind words and support, Grinder. We'd love to earn a spot in your bag when the EIDOLON's are worn out.

Re: our research - I would never make the claim that blade style irons are more forgiving than perimeter weighted designs...science and MOI disprove that statement. The more weight you have further from the center of the head, the less twisting of the head at impact and higher the MOI...and straighter the shot on an off-center hit. What I said is that perimeter weighting is less effective at controlling direction as loft increases...and the lower the center of mass in the head, the harder it makes it for a player to control trajectory. A Blade style design with higher center of mass and shafts designed to control trajectory are easier to hit the same distance on a consistent basis.

Yes - SCOR4161 has heel / toe weighting in the muscle back cavity that gives it some forgiveness. But is it more forgiving then perimeter-weighted iron design, probably not, but that depends on the skill level of the golfer and your definition of forgiveness. Will SCOR4161 correct direction as well? No. Will SCOR4161 control trajectory/distance better? Yes.

Re: selling out - I assure you that we are razor focused on the short game and will never try to be all things to all golfers. We want to help golfers shoot lower scores and have more fun. Why haven't more golfers heard of EIDOLON, because until recently, we've only sold direct. We think SCOR4161 is such a big idea, we want more golfers to have access to it...thus we're only now branching out and building distribution beyond the internet and phone with local golf professionals.

In defense of the big guys, I think if you look at what got them into "big time"...you'll see that they are still true to their roots as well (by market share). Ping started with putters then revolutionized fitting with the first cast golf clubs heads...they still make great putters and lead iron fitting. TaylorMade brought us Pittsburgh Persimmon...and they still dominate driver category. Titleist still makes the best golf ball. Callaway is still a leader in irons/woods. Cleveland still leads in wedges.
 
Great response Shawn. You guys know your stuff and it's showing in my testing. Tons of great info in your reply and you've backed up your product with cold hard facts.
 
Shawn, that was an excellent and truly informational post.
 
Another general disclosure and plea: Please don't let my participation in this forum sway opinions or create bias for/against SCOR4161. I think if you review the history, you'll see I did not answer anything until 2-3 weeks of feedback had been posted by reviewers. The only reason I got involved at all was to answer questions re: SCOR4161 and V-SOLE. I love interacting with you guys and other golfers any time I get a chance. The honest feedback and questions we continue to get are extremely valuable.

I will not "attack" or "rebut" anything from anyone...the same way I don't argue with my own Dad when he tells me his Taylormade LCG 9 iron goes further than his 42° SCOR4161. (true story by the way)

A few days or pages ago, there was some dialogue around the toe shot patterns on the faces of 45° lofts and greater. I wanted to address that real quick.

This weekend I played in the Texas State Mid-Amateur at the Club at Carlton Woods (nicklaus course). I missed the cut by a shot with an 81-77--158. I've been traveling a ton lately, so was not as sharp as I'd like to have been...and the course was anything but forgiving. Absolutely one of the hardest golf courses I've ever played...and most beautiful. Course rating from the tee we played was 76.6...if that tells you anything. Greens were seriously in the 13-14 stimp range. Two eagles perched above 9 green every round...first time I'd ever seen one in real life, beautiful and BIG. I hit it horribly off the tee the first day...and missed a ton of greens. Had it going in round 2 making the turn at 35...then made 3 doubles on the back nine for a smooth 42 and long drive to the house.

What was funny was after every single shot I hit with a SCOR4161 club, I found myself looking at the face for impact marks...because I had a fairly new set of SCOR4161 I was playing with. I've still struggled with the lofts I prefer to carry...never been a 60° wedge guy. I played both rounds with a 42-47-51-54-57 setup. I don't hit many full shots with the 57°, but love it around the greens.

In general, it is common to see face impact toward the toe with wedges. First, what causes face impact to not be dead center? Primarily shaft length, but can also move based on angle of attack/swing path. So when you consider face impact on a wedge, you will typically see some wear in the center and some towards the toe. The more shots around the green you hit with a particular wedge, the more wear/impact you'll see towards the toe/higher on the face...depending on the conditions of your normal play and length of rough. The more full shots you hit with a wedge, the more centered around the sweetspot your impacts should be. If one particular club has consistent toe impacts on full shots, it is definitely a fit issue...and most likely shaft length being too short. However, if you tend to choke down for 75-90% shots, more toe-ward impacts would make since.

For some examples in my own game - I hit this shot on #4 during the first round over the weekend on a par five. I was about 30 yards out from an elevated green in thick bermuda rough with a decent lie. The result was a shot that traveled the perfect distance and trajectory, but had ZERO spin. You can see the impact was high and toward the toe, because I was choked down on the shaft. I did manage to make the putt for birdie.

swd-cw-57-4.jpg


These next few are the face wear on my 57-54-47-42...I left out the 51° because I only hit it once. And I pulled that one in a greenside bunker en route to a double bogey.:at-wits-end:

swd-cw-57.jpg


swd-cw-54.jpg


swd-cw-47.jpg


swd-cw-42.jpg


In order 57-54-47-42 degree lofts. You can see that the shot patterns after 3 rounds and some range time in between move toward the middle of the club face because of predominately full shots or short range pitch and runs. With the 57°, you can see I am mostly high and on the toe...because it is my go to club from rough/bunker. When hitting those shots, I'm usually gripped down on the shaft with the ball further back in my stance and an extremely steep outside in angle of attack. I will say that I tend to open the face less due to V-SOLE...and not needing to increase bounce or bring another variable into the equation trying to determine how open I have the face and how hard I should swing based on the answer to that.

Anyway...just another perspective. I had a shot late in the round Saturday afternoon from a greenside bunker with the 57°. I hit a fantastic shot, but what I wished I'd taken a picture of is the sole of the golf club after that shot...I had the face squared off and the only portion of the sole that had sand on it was the leading edge with 30° of bounce. Perfection demonstration of just how V-SOLE is designed to perform...especially in a bunker situation.
 
that was excellent Shawn. Sorry you missed the cut but none the less that was an excellent read as well as explanation. I will have to look at the face of my wedges tonight cause now I am curious if mine are on the toe
 
This has to be one of the most informative threads I've ever read.
 
Good stuff Shawn. Those were my wear pics and I do see a pattern of middle to toe strikes on everything but the 60. Still need to get to a lie board to double check the lies and get some tape on the face to check the lengths.

Plan is to have a 1 month recap on Th or Fri. Want one more round, some pics and vids before I do this.
 
that was excellent Shawn. Sorry you missed the cut but none the less that was an excellent read as well as explanation. I will have to look at the face of my wedges tonight cause now I am curious if mine are on the toe

Like the handicap in my profile says, I'm a has been. Can still hold my own, but have a ton of practice to do to compete at this level. Really all depends on how much I'm able to get out prior to the event...and get some confidence. Played a bunch leading up the qualifier and everything came together there for a 68 and low qualifier...so at least I got in. Shot 81 the next day in the US Mid-Am qualifier.

If I remember...I'll take a photo of my old Vokey's tonight. I played with them between my time Callaway, before SCOR Golf. The shot patterns on that SM5610 oil can are identical to the SCOR4161 57° above. On my last day at Callaway Golf, I went to Golfsmith on the way home and bought a 905R driver, 52-54-56-58 vokeys, a Ping hoofer carry bag and a pair of footjoys.
 
This has to be one of the most informative threads I've ever read.

Heck yeah Hawk. I am learning a ton from everyone in here.
 
Seriously great stuff Shawn! I am one of the guys who is seriously considering jumping in on the SCOR system. I have loved what I have been reading from the testers and I want to thank you for taking the time to answer questions and participate in the forum discussion.
 
Like the handicap in my profile says, I'm a has been. Can still hold my own, but have a ton of practice to do to compete at this level. Really all depends on how much I'm able to get out prior to the event...and get some confidence. Played a bunch leading up the qualifier and everything came together there for a 68 and low qualifier...so at least I got in. Shot 81 the next day in the US Mid-Am qualifier.

If I remember...I'll take a photo of my old Vokey's tonight. I played with them between my time Callaway, before SCOR Golf. The shot patterns on that SM5610 oil can are identical to the SCOR4161 57° above. On my last day at Callaway Golf, I went to Golfsmith on the way home and bought a 905R driver, 52-54-56-58 vokeys, a Ping hoofer carry bag and a pair of footjoys.

hahahaha...just needed a change or needed to buy some golf stuff. I wouldnt say has been at all. I would love to have your golf game. I will just settle for the same wedges though
 
This might be a dumb question, but are Eidolon and SCOR the same company?


Tapatalkin
 
What is the difference in the clubs then? I am sorry for the skimmer questions. I am just confused.

The SCORs have different designs in them, be it minor ones.
 
Shawn,

Thank you for your replies. My comments were an effort to stir the pot and make sure everyone was thinking objectively. It is quite easy to honeymoon with new equipment for a period of time before reality sets in. Thing is, everyone seems to be having a lot of success with your products. It is apparent that you guys are doing some things correctly.

I personally ordered my two Eidolon wedges from you a few weeks ago. I am apparently on an extended honeymoon with these clubs. I feel like I'm often throwing darts with them and can not imagine much improvement.

I however, am in love with my old Ping G2 pitching wedge and can not seeing replacing it or my 9 iron. I am not saying the Scor's would not benefit me, however they are my old trusties that seldom let me down.

I wish you and Eidolon well in all of your endeavors.

P.S. You may want to hire that "One T guy. I can not imagine a much better marketer!

Grinder
 
I've read 75% of the thread but don't remember anyone saying they went through the scor system of finding distances on each the the wedges ( with choke down and open positions, etc)

Has anyone done that yet? And if so how did you go about doing it?


iOS using Tapatalk
 
I've read 75% of the thread but don't remember anyone saying they went through the scor system of finding distances on each the the wedges ( with choke down and open positions, etc)

Has anyone done that yet? And if so how did you go about doing it?


iOS using Tapatalk

It's a good question Jeremy. I have not yet tried to do that formally, because I'm struggling a bit with choking down and still hitting full shots with these. It is something I plan to do on down the line though.
 
I've read 75% of the thread but don't remember anyone saying they went through the scor system of finding distances on each the the wedges ( with choke down and open positions, etc)

Has anyone done that yet? And if so how did you go about doing it?


iOS using Tapatalk

Still a work in progress. For me it takes a little more time to get precise distances with new clubs. Initially I was going to rush right out and fill out the bag tag with distances. Will have that done pretty soon and post a pic.
 
I've read 75% of the thread but don't remember anyone saying they went through the scor system of finding distances on each the the wedges ( with choke down and open positions, etc)

Has anyone done that yet? And if so how did you go about doing it?


iOS using Tapatalk

If I can find my swing today, I was actually planning to do just that. I have full access to the par three course at my range, and was told by the lead instructor that I could use the course as a "private" practice area as long as I was not in any other players way.
 
In general, it is common to see face impact toward the toe with wedges. First, what causes face impact to not be dead center? Primarily shaft length, but can also move based on angle of attack/swing path. So when you consider face impact on a wedge, you will typically see some wear in the center and some towards the toe. The more shots around the green you hit with a particular wedge, the more wear/impact you'll see towards the toe/higher on the face...depending on the conditions of your normal play and length of rough. The more full shots you hit with a wedge, the more centered around the sweetspot your impacts should be. If one particular club has consistent toe impacts on full shots, it is definitely a fit issue...and most likely shaft length being too short. However, if you tend to choke down for 75-90% shots, more toe-ward impacts would make since.

Shawn, it stinks that you missed the cut but thanks for sharing the story with us. I'm glad you shared the quoted portion. I've always noticed the same type of pattern with my wedges and it was a source of concern to me until now. I always strive for center contact, but your comments help to alleviate that thought process some. I still need to work towards better ball striking, but I now have a better understanding of the general norm.

As a side note, I blew the grips of my irons last weekend to build up some tape under them. I cannot wait to get out there with them today and see how they feel in comparison.
 
I've read 75% of the thread but don't remember anyone saying they went through the scor system of finding distances on each the the wedges ( with choke down and open positions, etc)

Has anyone done that yet? And if so how did you go about doing it?

I've spent a large chunk of time doing this but a little more detailed then the card even suggests. I've got the 51/55/59 sorted pretty well from 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 swings through 4 grip positions (starting with my thumbs in the first two grooves at the top, then going down one rung each time). I did most of it on par 3's and executive courses early in the morning so I wasn't bothering anyone taking 10 or 12 shots per hole. Now that I've got distance control mostly locked in, I'm trying to see how I can alter the spin conditions with different balls to get some more control.
 
I've spent a large chunk of time doing this but a little more detailed then the card even suggests. I've got the 51/55/59 sorted pretty well from 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 swings through 4 grip positions (starting with my thumbs in the first two grooves at the top, then going down one rung each time). I did most of it on par 3's and executive courses early in the morning so I wasn't bothering anyone taking 10 or 12 shots per hole. Now that I've got distance control mostly locked in, I'm trying to see how I can alter the spin conditions with different balls to get some more control.

Nice Tuna. The executive course around my area has it stated on the card not to practice. I'll hit two or three shots a hole but not much more. Hard to find a good area where I can do this. Maybe later in the evening I'll pay for 9 at one of the better courses and try it when it is getting darker and no one is out.
 
Well, this weekend and yesterday were real tests for my SCORs. I used them a lot. Before I get started on any write-up I want to first start with my decision of carrying the SCOR 41* or my RXT 9 iron. Here is my choice. the video is much shorter than I wanted but I was having video problems. This shot is from just over 145 out...


 
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