We've launched the new forums! Read more here

SeeMore Putters MSeries Review - Forum Testing Review

SeeMore Golf
Kmac said:
That is an interesting observation and I bet you are right. I think we are all probably more of a slight arc putter even though we feel like were SBST. I think the slight arc feels more natural after trying it this past week.
Click to expand...

Standing taller gets your eyes more inside the ball which is good. Ideally, your eyes would be on the heel of the putter or slightly inside. When you are hunched over your eyes tend to get over the ball or just outside - from there, what looks like 'SBST' stroke is usually outside and across. If you are going to error with eye position I would rather see it inside the ball to promote an arc putting stroke. Standing taller and having your eyes inside the ball gives you more range of motion with the shoulders so you can rock them back and through. Hope this helps!
 
TheViperPGA10 said:
Standing taller gets your eyes more inside the ball which is good. Ideally, your eyes would be on the heel of the putter or slightly inside. When you are hunched over your eyes tend to get over the ball or just outside - from there, what looks like 'SBST' stroke is usually outside and across. If you are going to error with eye position I would rather see it inside the ball to promote an arc putting stroke. Standing taller and having your eyes inside the ball gives you more range of motion with the shoulders so you can rock them back and through. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...


i knew i wasn't seeing things.... thanks for posting this. i didn't understand if i was manipulating my stroke or if i actually was changing my stroke or if it was something to do with my eyes. i did use my iping app today but only for a few strokes and it is saying i am now using more of an arc but im still in the slight arc category i want to work on this some more on my practice green when i get a chance and post my results but it was interesting to say the least def more arc than i was putting with before.
 
Buckjob said:
i knew i wasn't seeing things.... thanks for posting this. i didn't understand if i was manipulating my stroke or if i actually was changing my stroke or if it was something to do with my eyes. i did use my iping app today but only for a few strokes and it is saying i am now using more of an arc but im still in the slight arc category i want to work on this some more on my practice green when i get a chance and post my results but it was interesting to say the least def more arc than i was putting with before.
Click to expand...

Yep, basically everything Brady said above, I was doing. Haha
 
Jman said:
Yep, basically everything Brady said above, I was doing. Haha
Click to expand...

thats why he gets paid the big bucks! lol it is great having ideas of whats going on or questions about things and having so many great resources to find out what really is going on.
 
TheViperPGA10 said:
Standing taller gets your eyes more inside the ball which is good. Ideally, your eyes would be on the heel of the putter or slightly inside. When you are hunched over your eyes tend to get over the ball or just outside - from there, what looks like 'SBST' stroke is usually outside and across. If you are going to error with eye position I would rather see it inside the ball to promote an arc putting stroke. Standing taller and having your eyes inside the ball gives you more range of motion with the shoulders so you can rock them back and through. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Brady I know you are working with jman, thank you BTW, but I'd like to ask you a question. I've always been under the impression that your eyes should
Be over the ball. Is this not the case? What would be the tendency with your stoke if your eyes are over instead of inside? Thank you in advance for your assistance.
 
Links to my earlier reviews:
Initial Fitting: Link
Additional thoughts on putters used in fitting: Link
Final Fitting and Build: Link
Decision Thoughts: Link


I spent some time today (okay, all morning) working with the Triangulator and the m5x at home. Nice flat lies on the carpet mean I can't lie to myself about misses being about a bad read.


This may sound silly, but since my wife won't let me dig any holes in the basement (even little ones), I like to use fun targets when I'm practicing on the carpet. Today it's a wooden letter "O" that's a bit smaller than the cup.


I alternated between a few different things:
Lining putts up from address
Lining up from behind the ball (seam line)
Speed control and feel



Lining up putts from address vs Lining up behind the ball


I confessed in my earlier posting that I have astigmatism. My particular flavor of astigmatism really messes with my perception of angles. This causes me problems when I transition from looking straight down the line to looking at line from the address position. The bridge of my nose gets in the way, and I have problems with or without my prescription glasses.


When I line up solely from address, anything beyond 10' starts to drift left. Not too drastically, but enough. When I'm lining up the seam line from behind the ball, it appears that I'm adjusting and lining up to right. If I can find a way to narrow the spread, I should be good, right?


Well, maybe with the help of the Triangulator I can get there. Now, I'm not usually one to plumb-bob a putt. But the Triangulator did kind of put the idea in my head. It's a plumb-bob of sorts after all. So I tried it. From about 18', I lined up a few putts using the seam line, and then used the shaft of my putter to confirm where I was pointing. Yep... right hand side of target. Adjust, putt, smack dead center. Try it again. Line it, plumb it, adjust it, putt it... and it ran right into the first ball. I did this with a batch of 9 balls, and had only 2 misses.


Next I moved in to the under 10 foot range. At this range, I was feeling complete and total confidence in the m5x. I decided to line up solely from the address position. Lights out from 8 feet.


I think I may have established some new routines based on the lenght of the putt I'm facing, and will be testing on a real putting surface tomorrow.


Speed control and feel


The m5x is just plain smooth. The shape of the sole is one of the things that I really like about it. Even though it's a good sized mallet, not much of the sole contacts the ground. The sides and back slope up very nicely, in what I think is a very well thought out design. I think that this smoothness is something that will contribute to an improvement in consistency.


m5x sole
Spoiler
sole.jpg



I picked up my target and started trying to putt to the point where it had been. I putted groups of three balls, and this was the best grouping:

Spoiler
group.jpg



I also started thinking about the feeling of twist that I talked about when I was deciding between the m5 and the m5x. I'm convinced that it's not a placebo effect, and also probably not a factor of a 10 gram difference in head weight. I think that the shaft in the m5x is slightly closer to the center of the face.


Tadashi, since you have an m5, if you'd be willing to confirm that... The m5x face is 4" across, alignment line at 2", front of shaft at 1 7/8".
 
Jman said:
As always, each new review post will include links to my previous one's in the "Reference Link" section, as it gets to be more and more crowded with additional review/thought posts those links will obviously go into spoiler tags.

REFERENCE LINKS:
  • Initial Thoughts/Process: CLICK HERE
  • Pre SPi Putting Breakdown: CLICK HERE
  • SeeMore mSeries Fitting PART 1: CLICK HERE
  • SeeMore mSeries Fitting PART 2: CLICK HERE
  • Stance Evolution and Medicine Ball Aid: CLICK HERE
  • Round 1, 2, and 3 General Rundown: CLICK HERE


ROUND/PUTTING GREEN RUNDOWN:

Date: 7/3/12
Played: 18 Holes
Weather: 99* and 10 MPH Winds

Round Rundown:
7_3_12CanyonsPutting.jpg

Total Putts: 32
GIR's: 12/18

Hole 1:
  • 23 foot right to left birdie putt - Played the break well but left it short.
  • 6 foot straight in par putt - Lip out
  • 5 inch bogey putt - In the cup
Hole 2:
  • 14 foot HARD left to right downhill birdie putt - Missed short and right of the cup
  • 2 foot straight in par putt - In the cup
Hole 3:
  • 14 foot slight right to left uphill birdie putt - Missed long
  • 2 foot left to right putt for par - In the cup
Hole 4:
  • 1 foot straight in par putt - In the cup
Hole 5:
  • 15 foot sliding right to left downhill par putt - In the cup

Hole 6:
  • 14 foot slow right to left birdie putt - Missed right of the cup but on pace
  • 10 inch par putt - In the cup
Hole 7:
  • 28 foot downhill par putt with little break - Missed WAY short, jammed putter at start of stroke
  • 10 foot downhill bogey putt with little break - Missed right but on pace
  • 2 inch double bogey putt - In the cup
Hole 8:
  • 18 foot downhill left to right birdie putt - Missed long but on line
  • 3 foot comeback par putt - In the cup

Hole 9:
  • 17 foot downhill left to right birdie putt - Missed short but on line
  • 3 foot comeback par putt - In the cup

Hole 10:
  • 31 foot right to left birdie putt - Missed way right but on pace
  • 4 foot par putt - In the cup
Hole 11:
  • 9 foot slight right to left birdie putt - Missed slight right
  • 2 in par putt - In the cup
Hole 12:
  • 39 foot uphill right to left birdie putt - Good lag, bad line
  • 8 foot par putt - Missed slight right and long
  • 1 foot bogey putt - In the cup
Hole 13:
  • 18 foot uphill par putt - In the cup
Hole 14:
  • 16 foot uphill right to left birdie putt - In the cup
Hole 15:
  • 7 foot downhill slight left to right birdie putt - Perfect line, just slightly (I mean slightly) short
  • 2 inch par putt - In the cup

Hole 16:
  • 29 foot pretty straight par putt - Missed well short, jammed putter at start of stroke
  • 14 foot fairly straight bogey putt - Died in the cup

Hole 17:
  • 6 foot simple birdie putt - In the back of the cup

Hole 18:
  • 5 foot straight birdie putt - Missed long
  • 10 in comeback par putt - In the cup

PERFORMANCE THOUGHTS:

In all honesty, I really can see improvements. Obviously despite that fact I look at the round above as one of missed opprtunities, but the facts are 32 putts with 12 GIR's is not all that bad of a number. Are there putts I should have gotten to drop or that narrowly did drop, yes. Are there some glaring issues I know I need to work harder on in practice, yes.

The two that really stick out to me from the round are from the 7th and the 16th hole when I jammed the putter on the backstroke. These two were illustrations of something I'm still battling with the longer putter length and more upright stance. I have gotten alot better about it but from time to time I really do struggle with the feel that I have control of the the putter at the takeaway. Yes, the stroke is in the shoulders, but the hands are still connected and the length is still awkward to me. Why I didn't stop the stroke as soon as it happened I'm still not sure but the results were horrible for me, as they should have been for the situation.

I am still fighting the pace thing a bit. At times I'm dead on with my roll and others I blow WAY past or end up WAY short. This is a course who's greens I have only played a handful of times so there is that factor of unfamiliarity to speed but I do think it is still mostly repetition. I have got to do alot more work with letting my shoulder rock dictating my stroke.

I also look back at the three 3-putts because there is no better illustration of a wasted stroke to me than a 3-putt...even at long distance. The way I'm wired I can't help but look at it like three wasted strokes and 32-3=29 no matter the distance or situation on the green. So negative of me, right? I can't help it. But I can say on the other end of the spectrum I cannot recall the last time I had five one-putts in a round. I also cannot remember the last time I hit so many clutch par putts either.

This round was a good one for me though in that I did see and could tell alot of things I am doing much better and that are becoming ingrained more and more. Mainly, my putting stance. I now automatically line up square without having to move my left foot forward more every time and I am keeping my left shoulder a little lower like Brady wanted automatically without thinking about it. My stance as a whole doesnt feel as awkward as it has been either, it is still a bit uncomfortable, but its also still very new so the general positive feeling about the change makes me happy. In addition to that my line is much, MUCH, improved and I think the overall ability of the mFGP2 to frame the ball incredibly easily, the trio of site lines, and actually having a routine and getting myself square has a ton to do with that fact as well.

PARTING THOUGHTS:

It was a good day to get out and squeeze a round in compared to the in house practicing I've been doing on the Tour Links. You can only do so much on my putting green and then you just need to really see if it is ingraining and translating at all to the course. The work will continue, I'll be getting some practice routine pic's and videos up soon, hopefully before this weekend, to show how I'm trying to continue to ingrain the changes.

Good and bad, it continues to be enlightening for me. Thats a fact.
Click to expand...

Hey Man!

32 Putts... Getting better! It's a marathon, not a race so take the positives and keep working at it. I'm glad to hear the set-up is feeling more natural and comfortable. Remember to test out the green speeds with a 10-15 ft. putt - Find the stroke length necessary to roll the ball the length of that putt - Store that in the memory bank and work from there to have good speed. One of the biggest challenges to playing different courses frequently is getting the speed down on the greens. Use the shoulders for consistency and that drill to help zone in the speed. Hope this helps!
 
Tadashi70 said:
Brady I know you are working with jman, thank you BTW, but I'd like to ask you a question. I've always been under the impression that your eyes should
Be over the ball. Is this not the case? What would be the tendency with your stoke if your eyes are over instead of inside? Thank you in advance for your assistance.
Click to expand...

Hey Tadashi!

Great question! When your eyes get over the ball or slightly outside your tendency is to have an outside and across the line putting stroke. With your eyes inside the ball the putter can work on an arc naturally rocking the shoulders back and through. Since all putters have a lie angle of less than 90 degrees (SeeMore stanard 70 degrees), it should work on an arc with the putter face staying square to the arc. If the putter is not working on an arc it is being manipulated during the stroke. Ideally - stand tall with your eyes on the heel of the putter (putter neutral to sternum) and rock those shoulders. Hope this helps!
 
Glad you have your putter in hand Rekimoto. That feel you speak of is even better on the putting green
 
TheViperPGA10 said:
Hey Tadashi!

Great question! When your eyes get over the ball or slightly outside your tendency is to have an outside and across the line putting stroke. With your eyes inside the ball the putter can work on an arc naturally rocking the shoulders back and through. Since all putters have a lie angle of less than 90 degrees (SeeMore stanard 70 degrees), it should work on an arc with the putter face staying square to the arc. If the putter is not working on an arc it is being manipulated during the stroke. Ideally - stand tall with your eyes on the heel of the putter (putter neutral to sternum) and rock those shoulders. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
That's a great explaination, thank you. It make perfect sense. Just a smaller version of the big swing.
 
knew i saw something about the eyes somewhere in my SeeMore Travels over the last few weeks a pretty good video too here Tad.

 
Glad you got your putter RK! Thanks for the pics, I really love the straight forward, TCB look that the mFGP has! Apart from the grip, we are going to have the exact same putter, and the pics give a good idea of how it's going to look in hand. Looking forward to how it goes for you on the greens.
 
Nice update shark! Interested to see how the new alignment routine works for you.
 
Nice update Jman! 32 putts isn't bad at all, but I know what you mean about missed opportunities. I hate it when I stub the putter too. Glad to see you are focusing on the positives. That's something I struggle with to be honest. Something like stubbing the putter on a fairly easy putt can often negatively affect me for the next few holes.
 
Thanks buc, it make perfect sense to me.
 
BamBooBender said:
Glad you got your putter RK! Thanks for the pics, I really love the straight forward, TCB look that the mFGP has! Apart from the grip, we are going to have the exact same putter, and the pics give a good idea of how it's going to look in hand. Looking forward to how it goes for you on the greens.
Click to expand...

TCB for sure! Im glad another tester is going the mFGP route too, it will good to bounce some thoughts off you down the road. The standard GP grip was suggested by my SPi Instructor, part of a plan to get me back to a more stripped down, back-to-basics, approach to putting. I was already pretty familiar with the GP grip, so I was onboard with that, plus I think the black GP grip keeps nice in-line with the TCB look of the whole setup.

Got one round under the belt with the new flatstick, hopefully get that writeup done soon.
 
BamBooBender said:
Nice update Jman! 32 putts isn't bad at all, but I know what you mean about missed opportunities. I hate it when I stub the putter too. Glad to see you are focusing on the positives. That's something I struggle with to be honest. Something like stubbing the putter on a fairly easy putt can often negatively affect me for the next few holes.
Click to expand...

Thanks BBB. The way I look at it, its all new and like Brady said, this is a marathon for me not a race. I want more than anything to become a better putter and time is what its going to take.

And my mFGP2 too...LOL
 
Thanks for the reply guys! I'm getting a putter education in this thread. I've always had a slight arc to high arc putter stroke. And never really rolled a seemore until I hit this forum. Thanks guys! This has helped me open my eyes.
 
Russell Knox has a SeeMore at the Greenbrier!
 
This thread has inspired me.
 
TheIcemann said:
Russell Knox has a SeeMore at the Greenbrier!
Click to expand...

Yep, he's been gaming one for a while. Gotta love spotting that two tone putter shaft on TV!
 
Date: July 5, 2012
Temp/conditions: 96* Dry
Green Speed conditions: Medium/Fast speed
Course: Shanondell Golf Course

Total Putts: 28
GIR: 6/18
Putts Per GIR: 1.7
Putts Per Hole: 1.6

Got out today again in the blistering heat and got to the course early to get some time to warm up on the putting green before my round. Now the course i played today used to be my home course in high school so i know it pretty well (where to hit and the layout of the greens). But this course doesn't play to any of my strengths because id say at least half of the holes are tight doglegs with trees lining either side. and the front 9 today was ugly for me, especially with my course management skills and i ended up only managing to hit 1 GIR on the front 9. The GOOD news is i ended up with only 14 putts on the front and my distance control was better again with my putts, but it was HOT and honestly my head wasn't really in the game today like it should have been because i was hungry and hot and just wasn't really into it. so at the turn i tossed down a few stiff drinks and headed back out, figuring my round was about to blow up anyway so why not do it with a little swing juice. well my buzz was a little stronger than i expected since i hadn't eaten a thing all day and it was now 4 oclock and i've been in the heat all day long. well ill tell you what the swing juice helped cause i hit a great approach shot and was 10' above the hole with a pretty straight downhill putt staring at me when i got onto the green, i went through my routine and drained the birdie putt. i really just wasn't thinking so much i just sort of made the stroke after my routine was done and after i made sure i was lined up correctly i looked at the hole that last time and let the putt go. It felt great, now the next hole is a par 5 i was 12-15' to the left of that hole in 2 shots and i had a decent eagle putt and i was thinking at least im getting out of here with a birdie since my distance control was pretty good again today and this putt had more break on it than the last one did. but i did my routine and didn't think as much over the ball and i let it go.... BAM drained that one for an eagle. So now im -3 on the back after 2 holes and im a little tipsy. i ended up paring the next 3 holes after making a nice putt that just lipped out on the next hole and draining a 5' putt for par on the hole after that. So i ended up with 14 putts on the back and hitting 5/9 GIR on the back and shot even par on the back 9. Now i know it prob doesn't paint me in a great light that i was a little buzzed playing golf but i tend to drink from time to time on the course usually don't get drunk cause i want to shoot well and i really should have eaten something especially with the heat today but i learned something today about my putting that i already incorporate in my regular swing. i don't like having swing thoughts. so why am i always thinking when im over a putt? i practice all the time and i trust my regular swing with my irons or my driver. i pick a spot that im aiming for and then i clear my mind and swing the club. and i was doing that with my putting after the turn today. I really think it was because i wasn't thinking, i just trusted my routine that ive been working on and made my putting stroke. i mean to make a 10' and then a 12' then lip out on a 8' then drain another 5' to save par on the hole after that is really great putting for me, heck thats good for almost any golfer i'd think. and its not that my putting was bad on the front. i mean i had 14 putts on the front but i only made 1 GIR so those numbers are a little skewed due to me chipping close on a few of them and putting from the fringe on another couple. but the back 9 i really saw my confidence with the routine and the RST system really shine. it was nice to make those pressure putts i mean a 15' Eagle putt is no tap in. I think trusting my new routine that i worked on with Andy and knowing that everything is the same on every putt when im standing over the ball is giving me a much better feel for how i need to stroke the ball. i have had many more putts die right around the lip and have had more 6"-1' tap ins for par than i can remember in quite some time. prob at least a year. So it seems i am having some more success with my mFGP2 and although im not suggesting you drink and putt. its funny how sometimes you do discover things about your game and stuff on the course. i think after i get a few more rounds under my belt with this routine and some more practice time im really gonna work on clearing my mind before i roll my putts. and see how that works out for me. I don't think with my old routine and putter if i could do that as easily as i feel like i could with the SeeMore.There are to many things to concentrate on right before i putt like the forward press which started my stroke with before, now im calm over my putt right before i am about to make the stroke not pushing my hands forward and i can clear my mind during that second. So again today saw some good things. i know my numbers were great but id like to see these same numbers with a few more GIR. But draining those 2 putts on 10 and 11 saved my round and turned it around for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top