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What are the signs of a bad Instructor?

OBballfinder

OBballfinder

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I have gone to a couple lessons and never had an awful experience (except for when I was a fool and tried golftec for a day). My buddy has been in lessons for a while (2 months) and has not improved at all. I expected initial growing pains for him, but it seems like the instructor is trying to build him into a swing and not build a swing for him. He's not the most athletic guy and the tips he's sharing are tiger-esq swing moved. It got me thinking... Have you ever had a lesson with a bad instructor? What were somethings that raised red flags?
 
The one that shows videos and never actually tells you or shows you what your doing wrong.
 
Pretty much all method instruction is not ideal. There aren't many things that are universally applicable in the golf swing to every individual and every shot. Anyone who is showing students specific positions that they need to recreate without explaining how or why is a bad instructor. That being said, I'd be careful judging an instructor for not immediately improving someone's game. Because a lot of the old school method instruction doesn't work for everyone that means the process can turn into much more trial and error. Like all things in golf, the path usually isn't linear...
 
My wife had an instructor who literally contradicted himself over the course of a couple of lessons with regards to the width of the backswing and wrist in the backswing.
 
Someone that continues to tell you to do the same thing over and over when it obviously isn't registering with the student and they tell you they don't understand. The inability to show or explain something in a different manner is a bad sign....
 
Telling a 60+ year old woman with a very repeatable swing that she needed to turn like Jon Rahm.

Awkwardly trying to hug an early teenage girl to motivate her when she did a drill correctly.


(same instructor)
 
First of all, I hardly ever judge an instructor by the results of a single student. Just like there are bad instructors there are bad students. Students who go to lessons then don't apply themselves in between lessons, or do so poorly are plentiful. That is but one of many examples of how students can and do sabotage the effectiveness of the lessons.

Another common one is telling the instructor what they want rather than letting the instructor evaluate them and tell them what they need.

A third is a mismatch between what the student wants and what the instructor can give.

Having said that there are many warning signs that an instructor (or any professional services individual) may exhibit that are warning signs.

The I'm Your New Best Friend Instructor - There is nothing wrong with being friendly. However many individuals in the professional services arena build their clientele list by becoming the client's best buddy. Don't choose based on how well you like the instructor or how well they seem to like you. You are coming to them for their expertise in teaching someone like you golf skills that will improve your play. Base your decision on evidence they can achieve results for you (more on that later).

Motor-Mouth - This is the instructor who will talk your ear off during the entire lesson. There are lots of motivations behind this, but it is not an effective teaching technique. If you can (and usually this isn't hard) watch your potential instructor give a lesson to someone else. If they are this profile (or one of the others you want to avoid) it will usually reveal itself. Motor-Mouth will also reveal themselves as they typically pitch to you prior to signing up for a lesson plan.

Square-Peg-In-a-Round-Hole - There are some instructors who are good instructors, but for a different person than you. There are several instructors I have known for years that I highly respect, but wouldn't take a lesson from them. Berny Fitch is a FANTASTIC instructor for kids. I trust him completely with the grandkids. But that is really where he excels. Other instructors will rebuild a golfer's swing to emulate the best practices of the highest-performing players...and they will take that approach with every student who comes their way. Other instructors are great at identifying low-hanging fruit--the one thing that if you change will have the greatest positive impact on your game. Other instructors specialize in one area or another. Examples: Dave Pelz built a career around short-game instruction, Brad Faxon and Dave Stockton did so around putting. The point is you want to match your needs and abilities with what the instructor has to offer. The same is true with learning styles. A really good instructor knows how to detect your learning style and teach to it. But most instructors rely mostly on one learning style. So, if an instructor teaches using primarily visual learning and you are a tactile learner, or an auditory learner things aren't going to go great.

The Socratic Instructor - Expect this instructor to ask lots of questions. This is how they zero in on what you need and how to most effectively deliver what you need. It can be a great way to learn. But some students have no tolerance for it or sabotage its effectiveness, so it might not be right for you. If for example, a student comes in and says, 'I need help getting my weight to the front side on the downswing' or 'I want to learn how to hit a draw'. What the student wants is so specific that it negates much of the value that comes from the Socratic Method and can be very frustrating for the student and instructor.
 
I would think that an instructor who doesn't know how, or wont work with the swing the student already has, might be someone to be avoided. Unless of course, if the student has no golf swing at all.

I don't believe in one method fits all when it comes to great golf instruction.

I also think that the instructor who spends too much time trying to baffle their students with bull fecal matter should be avoided. You see this a lot on the You Tube instruction videos.

I also think there are some instructors out there who make golf swing instruction more difficult than it needs to be. They do this for repeat business. (jmo)

On the flip side, the student also has a lot of responsibility in golf swing instruction. They need to understand what their guru is teaching. If they don't, they need to ask as many questions as needed to stay on the same page with the instructor. If the swing guru doesn't like the numerous questions, the student should move on.

The student also needs to put a copious amount of time in on practicing what the swing guru is trying to teach them. I think this is part of the problem when a student doesn't see improvement fast enough. The student should not expect immediate results. A good golf swing requires a lot practice, no matter the quality of the instruction.

Back in the day, I went through 5, or 6 swing gurus before I found a good fit for what I wanted to do. Not only was he a swing instructor, he was also a club fitter/builder who could fine tune clubs to fit the student's swing.

I spent 8+ years with "my guy" who got me down to a low single digit hdcp. I probably had well over 300 lessons with the man. Several $1,000s of dollars well spent.

My golf game took a big hit when he passed away.
 
An instructor who does not have a model of how he wants the swing to be performed, is bad. Any instructor who ONLY deals with high level golfers, is probably not good for amateurs. An instructor who cannot explain what they want done, is bad.

There is a feedback loop I like to follow when I teach people how to lift weights. A cue is a reminder of something already taught. The instructor has to observe the athlete in movement, cue the athlete to move correctly, determine if that cue was successful, then reevaluate.

With golf, it's really important to remember that any instructor is limited by the natural athleticism of the student. Not everyone is genetically capable of being a scratch golfer. Not every golf has the potential to have a good swing. The golfer has to also understand, they have a ceiling. If they want to try to move that ceiling, they have to make time to practice - a lot.

"Swing your swing" is one of the WORST pieces of advice because too many amateurs use it as an excuse to have sh***y mechanics and then blame instructors for not making the sh***y mechanics work.
 
leftshot said:
*very good post*
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I laugh at the students who come to an instructor to fix a slice with a swing that's 5° over the top with a way too open face, early extension, and casted release. Only to have the instructor try to work with them to get the swing shallowed out, come from the inside, stay down through impact and rotate into some shaft lean, only to have the student say "he tried to change my swing and not work with what I had!"
 
Signs of a bad instructor, which in this sense I am not saying they don't understand the golf swing, but not what I would be looking to work with:

Someone who subscribes exclusively to 1 way of swinging the golf club. Not all of us can hit positions like Tiger, or hogan, so please be flexible to what I can do.

Someone who doesn't ask what my goals/limitations/injuries/routine/etc are. Let's discuss what I am looking for, what practice time/money I am willing to put in and lets figure out what we can accomplish. If I am an 18 and think I am going to be scratch in 6 months.... don't be afraid to tell me the work/time needed, but also if we both know what the goals are, makes it a lot easier to try and stay on that path.

Someone who can't explain to me why we are doing something, or what the cause and effects are of what I am doing and what I want to be doing.

I have been lucky to work with some solid instructors, and I feel a really dang good one right now, but I have had some experience with a couple guys that I would put in the not great to bad camp.
 
mancest said:
Signs of a bad instructor, which in this sense I am not saying they don't understand the golf swing, but not what I would be looking to work with:

Someone who subscribes exclusively to 1 way of swinging the golf club. Not all of us can hit positions like Tiger, or hogan, so please be flexible to what I can do.

Someone who doesn't ask what my goals/limitations/injuries/routine/etc are. Let's discuss what I am looking for, what practice time/money I am willing to put in and lets figure out what we can accomplish. If I am an 18 and think I am going to be scratch in 6 months.... don't be afraid to tell me the work/time needed, but also if we both know what the goals are, makes it a lot easier to try and stay on that path.

Someone who can't explain to me why we are doing something, or what the cause and effects are of what I am doing and what I want to be doing.

I have been lucky to work with some solid instructors, and I feel a really dang good one right now, but I have had some experience with a couple guys that I would put in the not great to bad camp.
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While this is true, there are universal truths with the golf swing. There is no one correct way to swing a club, but there are things that HAVE to happen in order for something else specific to happen.
 
blugold said:
While this is true, there are universal truths with the golf swing. There is no one correct way to swing a club, but there are things that HAVE to happen in order for something else specific to happen.
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Sure, but asking a 50 year old 18 handicap with a fused spine to do the same thing as a 2 handicap 16 year old who plays multiple sports tells me you don't give a crap about learning what your student can do and how to help them make a better golf swing.
 
mancest said:
Sure, but asking a 50 year old 18 handicap with a fused spine to do the same thing as a 2 handicap 16 year old who plays multiple sports tells me you don't give a crap about learning what your student can do and how to help them make a better golf swing.
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Without a doubt. Not all bodies are capable of making golf swings necessary for specific results. But, every student who takes a lesson has to be prepared to encounter a change of some level. To expect a different result with the same collapsing lawn chair swing is foolish.
 
- I absolutely hate the concept of "_______ pro swings like this, you should do that." It just isn't going to happen.
- I get that people are busy, but if you don't want to instruct, don't do it. Actually get back to people, schedule things, and have that schedule on point (don't double book me).
- Ask me how much of a change I am actually willing to make. If I am down for a complete overhaul, or only want smaller changes.
- This may be controversial, but I don't want golf stories about pros etc in my lesson. I am paying for time, I want analysis and instruction, not to stand around for 45 minutes and not swing a club.

- I want someone to discuss what I want to accomplish, what we would need to change to hit those goals.
 
blugold said:
I laugh at the students who come to an instructor to fix a slice with a swing that's 5° over the top with a way too open face, early extension, and casted release. Only to have the instructor try to work with them to get the swing shallowed out, come from the inside, stay down through impact and rotate into some shaft lean, only to have the student say "he tried to change my swing and not work with what I had!"
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LOL, so right - you've got to have a swing to change a swing...
 
I've been to many -- I don't know what to say but video and Porzak Golf - spend $500

Avoid

They do not explain the steps in their instruction - they need to give an overview.
They try to make you look like a pro right off the bat
They don't take video
They have no swing monitor ie something like Trackman
They say "swing left" but do not explain how and what that means.
They don't explain swing path.
They don't tell you that your body may be too stiff for certain moves (they don't suggest flexibility exercises or a book)
They do not explain in detail the grip, posture, feet, ball position.
They do not explain backswing and various movements, and then downswing and its movements, or they try to do too much at once.
They do not look at your clubs and see if they fit.
They say "P1", "P6" etc. right off the bat.
They don't ask you what you want out of the game.


Oh, there is a whole lot more...
 
blugold said:
Without a doubt. Not all bodies are capable of making golf swings necessary for specific results. But, every student who takes a lesson has to be prepared to encounter a change of some level. To expect a different result with the same collapsing lawn chair swing is foolish.
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Oh for sure. My golf swing was.... as my current instructor described it when I was not his student, he was just doing a consult, a "train wreck". I have learned that different is not bad. If it feels the same, it probably is the same and is going to get very similar results.

In our first lesson (I worked with another guy at his studio who moved away and he took me on) we did an around the world drill. We hit big slinging draws and huge pull cuts. It was eye opening a) to see that I could accomplish those things and b) it was shocking the feels it took to get them there. I think the most I got was 20 in to out with a 7I. Was the best thing we could have done because he got to see my tendencies and I got to see what was possible and how severely different the patterns were for what I wanted to do than what I was used to doing.
 
mancest said:
Oh for sure. My golf swing was.... as my current instructor described it when I was not his student, he was just doing a consult, a "train wreck". I have learned that different is not bad. If it feels the same, it probably is the same and is going to get very similar results.

In our first lesson (I worked with another guy at his studio who moved away and he took me on) we did an around the world drill. We hit big slinging draws and huge pull cuts. It was eye opening a) to see that I could accomplish those things and b) it was shocking the feels it took to get them there. I think the most I got was 20 in to out with a 7I. Was the best thing we could have done because he got to see my tendencies and I got to see what was possible and how severely different the patterns were for what I wanted to do than what I was used to doing.
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20° IN TO OUT!!!!!

The most I ever got was 10° and that was a insane.
 
blugold said:
20° IN TO OUT!!!!!

The most I ever got was 10° and that was a insane.
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It was wild. I was trying to hit it to the right of the quad.
 
blugold said:
20° IN TO OUT!!!!!

The most I ever got was 10° and that was a insane.
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Exactly!! - I was 7-10, and to get out of that, I must think "cut" to get to 2-3.

And at more than 5 or 6, you have a tendency to "fat" the ball.
 
Desmond said:
Exactly!! - I was 7-10, and to get out of that, I must think "cut" to get to 2-3.

And at more than 5 or 6, you have a tendency to "fat" the ball.
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Yeah, that range I get real "heel draggy". Bound to bury the heel of the club, shut the toe, and snap hook the ****** over the county highway
 
Getting the same feedback over and over without finding another way to get it to sink in. Some people learn differently. Also, the teacher should have tools, training aids, camera, etc. to help with instruction.
 
mancest said:
We hit big slinging draws and huge pull cuts. It was eye opening a) to see that I could accomplish those things and b) it was shocking the feels it took to get them there.
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This, and similar variations, is time well spent. Going out toward the margins usually makes finding middle ground easier.
 
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