The Red Wine Thread

[Ereim]

This ‘advice’ from a Life Hack calendar seems appropriate for this thread.

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I use this trick a lot with cheaper wines.

With older, high end bottles, it is common to “shock / wake up” the wine by opening the bottle, pouring a taste out, throwing the cork back in and shaking the bottle a few times. Double decant after that and let breathe for as long as you can tolerate!

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

This ‘advice’ from a Life Hack calendar seems appropriate for this thread.

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Except a $3 bottle of wine has no tannins to soften!

Oh, this will "aerate" the wine for sure. But, as you said, there are no tannins to soften, nor is there fruit to amplify! It's just gack juice!

I use this trick a lot with cheaper wines.

With older, high end bottles, it is common to “shock / wake up” the wine by opening the bottle, pouring a taste out, throwing the cork back in and shaking the bottle a few times. Double decant after that and let breathe for as long as you can tolerate!

With REALLY older high end bottles, you don't really need to wake them up. They are raring to go! With younger bottles this can be a benefit. I used to sell fine wine, and this was demonstrated to me by a winemaker!

For the older wines, one was a 29 year old Premier Cru red Burgundy from the 1961 vintage. Yet another "vintage of the century"! I have to admit buying into that idea, as the wine was incredible! There were 8 of us sharing an " old fashioned" 5th of wine that was about 24.5oz! So, about 3 oz apiece. That wine lasted about 50 minutes in my glass until it gave up the ghost!

I didn't really want to drink it because the nose was so magical! Every time I stuck my nose in the glass it gave me something new! Something more incredible! Something more interesting! And the taste matched. I found myself slowing down my eating to sync up my eating with my drinking!

 

[Gyro25]

Had this bottle that for the price was delicious

 

[Desmond]

We've been bad about being red wine snobs...

Okay - Justin Paso Robles 2018 Cabernet Sauvignon - $24 at Wal-Mart. Delicious, lots of berries, ready to drink out of the bottle, great with red meats.

 

[BH 43]

I like chianti, haven't drank any in a while. it is avery good red wine and not too expersive.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

Chianti can be an excellent wine, depending on the producer and where it is grown, just like any other wine. Things got a little sloppy over there, as the Italian wine authorities kept allowing the chianti "classico" zone to creep out of the hills and into the plains. Thus, folks who should be growing corn and beans were growing grapes, were able to call it "Chianti Classico", and charge a premium price for it.

Piero Antinori, the head of a winemaking family that has been in Chianti since 1385 spent an enormous amound of time and money trying to safeguard the reputation of the region, which was falling fast! Thank God he succeeded!

 

[jdtox]

Just had this wine tonight. 20 years ago when I worked in a restaurant it was $100/bottle and I thought it was amazing. I just saw it at the local wine shop for $45 so I bought it. It wasn’t as amazing as I remember but it was good, probably not $45 good though

 

[Desmond]

Chianti can be an excellent wine, depending on the producer and where it is grown, just like any other wine. Things got a little sloppy over there, as the Italian wine authorities kept allowing the chianti "classico" zone to creep out of the hills and into the plains. Thus, folks who should be growing corn and beans were growing grapes, were able to call it "Chianti Classico", and charge a premium price for it.

Piero Antinori, the head of a winemaking family that has been in Chianti since 1385 spent an enormous amound of time and money trying to safeguard the reputation of the region, which was falling fast!

yes, Antinori and Frescobaldi, from memory, were very good producers with a wide variety from which to choose from inexpensive to expensive.

 

[Desmond]

Just had this wine tonight. 20 years ago when I worked in a restaurant it was $100/bottle and I thought it was amazing. I just saw it at the local wine shop for $45 so I bought it. It wasn’t as amazing as I remember but it was good, probably not $45 good though
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I drank a bottle of Tresor about 15 yr ago - great label. That vintner's wines have decreased in price over that time. I haven't kept up with them but possibly they chose to go towards a less expensive strategy. Did quality suffer? Don't know.

 

[jdtox]

I drank a bottle of Tresor about 15 yr ago - great label. That vintner's wines have decreased in price over that time. I haven't kept up with them but possibly they chose to go towards a less expensive strategy. Did quality suffer? Don't know.

Maybe. I know back then I didn’t drink as much wine as I do now so I was curious. I haven’t really looked for it but it’s the first time I’ve seen it in a very long time so I felt compelled to buy.

 

[McLovin]

Just had this wine tonight. 20 years ago when I worked in a restaurant it was $100/bottle and I thought it was amazing. I just saw it at the local wine shop for $45 so I bought it. It wasn’t as amazing as I remember but it was good, probably not $45 good though
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i’ve enjoyed that before. pushing its value prop at $45, but isn’t everything these days?! i’ve seen some wine prices shoot through the damn roof, and i can’t bring myself at accept the new norm.

 

[McLovin]

i’ve started exploring wines from cotes du rhône. good value and super tasty. past two nights we drank halos de jupiter. pretty tasty for under $20.

 

[vintagebob]

Tonight's wine.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

Just had this wine tonight. 20 years ago when I worked in a restaurant it was $100/bottle and I thought it was amazing. I just saw it at the local wine shop for $45 so I bought it. It wasn’t as amazing as I remember but it was good, probably not $45 good though
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First of all $100 in a restaurant does not equal retail price off the shelf. Many, if not most resaurauteurs price their wine at 3 times bottle cost. I don't know what the markups in Michigan are, but here in Ohio, a $45 retail on the store shelf would equate to a $30 wholesale cost from the distributor. And Ferrari-Carano was never super expensive to begin with.

I remember when their first vintage of Fume Blanc hit the market. It just exploded! It was so good! I was calling on a wine shop, when a customer came in and asked if he had Ferrari-Carano Fume Blanc. Yes, we have a display over here. The customer picks up a bottle, looks at the price, and said that it couldn't possibly be the same wine. It was too inexpensive! My customer assured him that the retaill price of that was was $9.99! Then the customer says, 'If that's the case, can you tell me why I was paying 12 dollars a glass for this at The Watermark Restaurant last night"?! My customer said the he couldn't, and that he'd have to ask The Watermark about that!

Tonight's wine.

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I used to sell Testarossa! They make some great Pino Noir! I never sold this one though. We couldn't get it here in Ohio. How was it?

 

[jdtox]

First of all $100 in a restaurant does not equal retail price off the shelf. Many, if not most resaurauteurs price their wine at 3 times bottle cost. I don't know what the markups in Michigan are, but here in Ohio, a $45 retail on the store shelf would equate to a $30 wholesale cost from the distributor. And Ferrari-Carano was never super expensive to begin with.

I remember when their first vintage of Fume Blanc hit the market. It just exploded! It was so good! I was calling on a wine shop, when a customer came in and asked if he had Ferrari-Carano Fume Blanc. Yes, we have a display over here. The customer picks up a bottle, looks at the price, and said that it couldn't possibly be the same wine. It was too inexpensive! My customer assured him that the retaill price of that was was $9.99! Then the customer says, 'If that's the case, can you tell me why I was paying 12 dollars a glass for this at The Watermark Restaurant last night"?! My customer said the he couldn't, and that he'd have to ask The Watermark about that!



I used to sell Testarossa! They make some great Pino Noir! I never sold this one though. We couldn't get it here in Ohio. How was it?

Oh I know about the restaurant markup but like I said that was 20 years ago, I figured it must have have a $30 bottle back then. I just remembered it being fantastic and hadn’t ever seen it again locally so had to try it. I enjoyed it but likely wouldn’t purchase again

 

[vintagebob]

I used to sell Testarossa! They make some great Pino Noir! I never sold this one though. We couldn't get it here in Ohio. How was it?

Any of the Santa Rita Hills Pinots from Testarossa are excellent. The La Encatnada Vineyard has been dropped but the La Rinconada and Sanford & Benedict are very good, especially if you can find some of the 2018.

Any of the Pisoni clone vineyards in Santa Lucia Highlands are excellent as well. Pisoni, Rosella's, Gary's and Soberanes vineyards. I'm partial to the Soberanes but my wife is partial to the Pisoni.

Of course Roar makes excellent wine from these Pisoni clone vineyards as well but it is more difficult to find.

If you like Pinot Noir, you should look into the Scherrer Vineyard futures program. A less expensive way to buy some great Russian River Valley Pinot. The 2018 is outstanding and based on my long history with the Zinfandel futures you will not be incurring any risk by buying early.

 

[RatFink]

Had a red pet nat the other night. Really nice, little bubbly but smooth and rich.
Pet Nats might be the only bubblies I actually enjoy.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

Oh I know about the restaurant markup but like I said that was 20 years ago, I figured it must have have a $30 bottle back then. I just remembered it being fantastic and hadn’t ever seen it again locally so had to try it. I enjoyed it but likely wouldn’t purchase again

It may have been "Clos du Bois"ed to death. When they first hit the market with the Briarcrest Cab, and Marlstone red blend, both wines were fantastic and sold like crazy! Then, the quality of those wines began to slip. They didn't turn into gack juice, but they just weren't quite as good as they had been, and we wondered why. Then someone with a bit more experience and knowledge of the wine biz clued us in. Briarcrest and Marlstone used to signify single vineyards, then they became brand names. He told us to look at the case production. It went up year after year. The vineyards can only get so big before the soil or the microclimate changes. So, they were either over cropping those vineyards, or bringing in other grapes. And the quality slipped a bit.

Any of the Santa Rita Hills Pinots from Testarossa are excellent. The La Encatnada Vineyard has been dropped but the La Rinconada and Sanford & Benedict are very good, especially if you can find some of the 2018.

Any of the Pisoni clone vineyards in Santa Lucia Highlands are excellent as well. Pisoni, Rosella's, Gary's and Soberanes vineyards. I'm partial to the Soberanes but my wife is partial to the Pisoni.

Of course Roar makes excellent wine from these Pisoni clone vineyards as well but it is more difficult to find.

If you like Pinot Noir, you should look into the Scherrer Vineyard futures program. A less expensive way to buy some great Russian River Valley Pinot. The 2018 is outstanding and based on my long history with the Zinfandel futures you will not be incurring any risk by buying early.

Santa Rita Hills or Santa Lucia Hills? I think you mean the latter, and I am in full agreement! There are amazing Pinots coming out of there. I've sold Pinot from both Gary's and Pisoni vineyard, and both were amazing. I sold Arcadian Winery Pinots, well it would be more accurate to say that I tried to sell them, since they were priced at the level of Premier Cru red Burgundies! Kind of a tough row to hoe here. And it didn't matter if you told your customer that the Santa Lucia wines were better than the equivalently priced red Burgundies, they would not believe you! And, it was kind of an expensive sample to sign out.

I once heard a story about the Pisoni "clone" and how it came to be here. It could be true or not, but the guy who told it to me was in the wine biz in California, and claimed to know Gary Pisoni. He also swore me to secrecy. 20+ years later I guess I can let it slip in this limited forum.

He told me that Pisoni was unhappy with any of the standard Pinot clones he was able to get here. Felt they were all lacking. So, he made a bunch of arrangements for a trip to Burgundy to visit vineyards. Specifically he times his visits for when he knew they would be pruning. He would talk to the winemaker, but mostly he would talk to the vineyard manager, since his primary interest was in viticulture. After establishing his bona fides, and ingratiating himself with the Domaine, he would ask to walk the vineyard unaccompanied. No one needed to bother themselves taking him around. He wanted to look at their trellising, vine spacing, pruning regimen, rootstock management, etc. So, they'd let him go.

When vineyards prune their vines, they drop the pruned canes right at the vines. When they are done with the entire vineyard, they go back and pick up all the prunings. Apparently, Pisoni had this planned out to a T. He'd go out there with a sharp pocket knife, wander the vineyards, and get cuttings from the pruned canes. Apparently he smuggled hundreds of cuttings from Grand Cru red Burgundy vineyards into the country, and told no one about it. Why?

Well, if you get it past the USDA, then you have to deal with some California bureaucracy who will take forever and a day certifying that these imports are "disease free". Then, once they are certified, they become available to everybody! They are no longer your property! I can understand why Pisoni kept this under wraps. And, by the time he unleashed these on the winemaking world, it was too late for the bureaucrats to do anything.

And this is not the only time this has happened. I've heard of others.

If this story is true, considering the Pinot Noir that have sprung from these clones, I will say that I am happy that he did this.

 

[vintagebob]

Santa Lucia Highlands (Wrath, Pisoni, Hahn, etc.)
Santa Rita Hills (Sea Smoke, Melville, Sanford, etc.)

I’ve had lunch with Gary Pisoni on his property. His ”Bat Cave” is amazing. His family makes killer sausage from the pigs, etc. that go after the vineyard.

The Pisoni clone has a distinctive smooth, round mouth feel.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

Santa Lucia Highlands (Wrath, Pisoni, Hahn, etc.)
Santa Rita Hills (Sea Smoke, Melville, Sanford, etc.)

I’ve had lunch with Gary Pisoni on his property. His ”Bat Cave” is amazing. His family makes killer sausage from the pigs, etc. that go after the vineyard.

The Pisoni clone has a distinctive smooth, round mouth feel.

I used to sell wines from DeRose Vineyards in the Cienega Valley. An almost unknown appellation. It is a high, alpine valley just West of Hollister. They had Zinfandel, and Negrette, (Pinot St. George), vines well over 100 years old! Their wines were fabulous! Just Googled them, and it looks like they are doing great! I am so glad. However, when we went to visit them, I noticed a scoped rifle behind Al's desk! I asked what that was about. He said, "Oh. I don't go out in the vineyard without that on my shoulder. You never know what you might run into out here. Wild boar, mountain lion, black bear. Hey, everything loves grapes! We have one hell of a predation problem!"

 

[vintagebob]

Killer juice! Too bad that 2019 will be the last vintage of this Syrah, but I get it, Pinot Noir rules.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

When you can grow Pinot Noir in the Santa Lucia Hills, what other pedigree could you need?! Just about everything I've tasted from there has been excellent!

 

[Browns7213]

Just had this wine tonight. 20 years ago when I worked in a restaurant it was $100/bottle and I thought it was amazing. I just saw it at the local wine shop for $45 so I bought it. It wasn’t as amazing as I remember but it was good, probably not $45 good though
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Love this wine and many others from Ferrari-Carano! A couple year's ago they took significant price reductions on a lot of their wines. The Sienna is also an excellent red blend from them that ages quite well.

 

[jdtox]

Love this wine and many others from Ferrari-Carano! A couple year's ago they took significant price reductions on a lot of their wines. The Sienna is also an excellent red blend from them that ages quite well.

I really like Sienna too. A few months ago I was finding it for $16 and it has gone up to $20 but I still pick it up once in a while.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

For inexpensive wines that are really tasty look for the "Uncaged" brand from Z. Alexander Brown. I found it on the by the glass list at a local restaurant that I like very much for 7 bucks a glass. Plus, they'll give you a free sample if you've never had it before.