2nd Greatest QB this Century???

[blugold]

I've been a Chicago Bears fan my entire life, I'm not a Tom Brady fan, but I'm actually amazed at how many people are trying to argue he's not the GOAT. It's undebatable in my mind.

I like Joe Montana as #2, but I'm a massive Peyton Manning fan as well. To me those are the only 2 though that can fit into that slot.

@blugold - Do you watch football?

This post did not age well

 

[JB]

At this rate, is it impossible to think that Patrick Mahomes might have a say? Josh Allen can sling it and do things that Tom Brady can't/couldn't.

Maybe two years is too short, but in 10 years, the "best QB this century" discussion could be radically different.

It could in 20, 40 and beyond too, but 2 years is ******* laughable and obviously just trolling.
He has 40 more TD passes in the playoffs than anybody in history and 2nd on that list is a guy with a single ring.
One of the two people you said hasn't even made it to the big dance yet.

 

[V14_Heels]

This post did not age well

Huh, what didn't age well about it? You've lost me.

But NO to answer your question, I don't think there is any chance that Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen can surpass the legacy of Tom Brady in a 2 year span. Or even to your redacted post of 10 years.

A legacy just isn't built in that span of time. Patrick Mahomes would have to win at least 50% of the Super Bowls covering the next 10 years to be in that conversation, and then he's still only at 6 rings. And if he does that, that means mathematically there could only be one other QB that took the other 5 rings, how would Brady be dropping to 4th or 5th exactly...

I feel like I'm being trolled. I took the bait if that's what your doing. Well played.

 

[blugold]

It could in 20, 40 and beyond too, but 2 years is ******* laughable and obviously just trolling.
He has 40 more TD passes in the playoffs than anybody in history and 2nd on that list is a guy with a single ring.
One of the two people you said hasn't even made it to the big dance yet.

I understand that the perspective of the conversation changes if we drastically consider post season performance that heavily.

 

[blugold]

Huh, what didn't age well about it? You've lost me.

But NO to answer your question, I don't think there is any chance that Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen can surpass the legacy of Tom Brady in a 2 year span. Or even to your redacted post of 10 years.

A legacy just isn't built in that span of time. Patrick Mahomes would have to win at least 50% of the Super Bowls covering the next 10 years to be in that conversation, and then he's still only at 6 rings. And if he does that, that means mathematically there could only be one other QB that took the other 5 rings, how would Brady be dropping to 4th or 5th exactly...

I feel like I'm being trolled. I took the bait if that's what your doing. Well played.

I know this sounds blasphemous or outlandish, but it's possible to consider other things than just total Super Bowls one.

 

[JB]

I know this sounds blasphemous or outlandish, but it's possible to consider other things than just total Super Bowls one.

Sure. If you want to name the greatest of all time on only passer rating as a measuring stick, there ya go...Yikes. Or maybe he doesn't hold the clipboard as well as Mike Glennon. He certainly isn't the best at cratering when it matters, so there is that too. Tons of measurable.

Because Yards, TDS, Wins, Super Bowls, etc etc etc etc etc all belong to the same guy both regular season and post season.
And left one team, where even some naysayers said it was simply coaching and goes to another and wins a ring there too on a team that missed the playoffs the year prior.

But sure, definitely could be 4th or 5th best in a couple of years.

 

[blugold]

Sure. If you want to name the greatest of all time on only passer rating as a measuring stick, there ya go...Yikes. Or maybe he doesn't hold the clipboard as well as Mike Glennon. He certainly isn't the best at cratering when it matters, so there is that too. Tons of measurable.

Because Yards, TDS, Wins, Super Bowls, etc etc etc etc etc all belong to the same guy both regular season and post season.
And left one team, where even some naysayers said it was simply coaching and goes to another and wins a ring there too on a team that missed the playoffs the year prior.

But sure, definitely could be 4th or 5th best in a couple of years.

Yeah, two years is too soon to be 4th or 5th. But not too soon to be 2nd.

 

[JB]

Yeah, two years is too soon to be 4th or 5th. But not too soon to be 2nd.

Yes it is...But hey, you do you.

 

[Tevenor]

Yeah, two years is too soon to be 4th or 5th. But not too soon to be 2nd.

We still talking "Of all time" or talking over the last 2 years? Just making sure I understand the context. Because by the latter, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning aren't even on the list.

 

[Tenputt]

I honestly don’t know how it is even debatable who is number 1 and who will be number 1 in 5 years. Is there a more clearcut GOAT in any position than quarterback?

 

[JB]

I honestly don’t know how it is even debatable who is number 1 and who will be number 1 in 5 years. Is there a more clearcut GOAT in any position than quarterback?

Probably not. Maybe Jerry Rice...Maybe.

 

[Tenputt]

We still talking "Of all time" or talking over the last 2 years? Just making sure I understand the context. Because by the latter, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning aren't even on the list.

I think the OG parameter is for the 22nd Century or since 2000.

 

[blugold]

Yes it is...But hey, you do you.

It's not going to happen, but there's a chance, if Mahomes wins 2/3 of the next three Super Bowls, Mahomes has a case.

We still talking "Of all time" or talking over the last 2 years? Just making sure I understand the context. Because by the latter, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning aren't even on the list.

Of this century.

 

[JB]

It's not going to happen, but there's a chance, if Mahomes wins 2/3 of the next three Super Bowls, Mahomes has a case.

Of this century.

What's the case? That he has almost half as many super bowl rings and perhaps in another 15 years can sniff his passing numbers?

 

[tahoebum]

In terms of raw quarterback play, my list is

Brees
Rodgers
Manning
Brady
Rivers

Of course that doesn't necessarily translate to wins & losses, but as far as skill from the huddle to the whistle, they're the best of the past 20 years, IMO.

I’m 100% on board with this ranking. It’s interesting to go back and look at MVP winners at the QB position. Other than NE, The Packers are the most spoiled fans of the last 30 years at QB as Favre was voted MVP 3 times. If Rodgers wins the MVP this year, the Pack has 7 MVPs at the position since Favre started playing for them. Young, Brady, Peyton, and Warner are the only other multiple MVP QB winners going back 30 years.

 

[blugold]

What's the case? That he has almost half as many super bowl rings and perhaps in another 15 years can sniff his passing numbers?

Yup, the 20+ year career numbers wouldn't be there. The ring total wouldn't be there. I understand that it's a tough hill to fight on considering how you value rings above all else. I don't consider ring total the end all be all of the discussion.

 

[JB]

Yup, the 20+ year career numbers wouldn't be there. The ring total wouldn't be there. I understand that it's a tough hill to fight on considering how you value rings above all else. I don't consider ring total the end all be all of the discussion.

That is what I keep asking. What is the value to be the best?
Is it yards? TDS? Wins? What is it? Because every measurable of career, since that is what is being discussed says you are incorrect.

I mean if we are just going to take a few years and isolate great play, rather than the culmination of an entire career, sure. Gayle Sayers might be the best RB ever. Why stop there? We might as well take a single game. Matt Flynn is absolutely the greatest Packers QB ever.

 

[blugold]

That is what I keep asking. What is the value to be the best?
Is it yards? TDS? Wins? What is it? Because every measurable of career, since that is what is being discussed says you are incorrect.

I mean if we are just going to take a few years and isolate great play, rather than the culmination of an entire career, sure. Gayle Sayers might be the best RB ever. Why stop there? We might as well take a single game. Matt Flynn is absolutely the greatest Packers QB ever.

There is an element of "it factor" that has to get considered, some subjectivity. I don't think we can only use measurables. Patrick Mahomes has more "throws in the bag" than Brady. Mahomes has better legs than Brady. If Mahomes gets to 4 or 5 SB wins, he over takes Brady. I am only focusing on Mahomes right now simply because he seems like the only guy currently in the league to have a chance for this.

Matt Flynn only shares passing records for a single game with the Green Bay Packers. That was a helluva game. Good strawman though.

 

[Tenputt]

That is what I keep asking. What is the value to be the best?
Is it yards? TDS? Wins? What is it? Because every measurable of career, since that is what is being discussed says you are incorrect.

I mean if we are just going to take a few years and isolate great play, rather than the culmination of an entire career, sure. Gayle Sayers might be the best RB ever. Why stop there? We might as well take a single game. Matt Flynn is absolutely the greatest Packers QB ever.

Gayle Sayers was SO good, not to hijack a thread.

 

[JB]

There is an element of "it factor" that has to get considered, some subjectivity. I don't think we can only use measurables. Patrick Mahomes has more "throws in the bag" than Brady. Mahomes has better legs than Brady. If Mahomes gets to 4 or 5 SB wins, he over takes Brady. I am only focusing on Mahomes right now simply because he seems like the only guy currently in the league to have a chance for this.

Matt Flynn only shares passing records for a single game with the Green Bay Packers. That was a helluva game. Good strawman though.

Oh there is a straw man here alright....The entire thing is "if", "but", "maybe"...Good lord.

 

[fuffle master]

Brady and I feel trolled

 

[blugold]

Oh there is a straw man here alright....The entire thing is "if", "but", "maybe"...Good lord.

I admit I am trying to defend an unlikely hypothetical.

 

[V14_Heels]

I admit I am trying to defend an unlikely hypothetical.

No. You're trying to defend a non-existent hypothetical. There's no way using any statistical category that has any relevance to the topic that Mahomes will surpass Brady for the #1 QB of this Century in the next two years.

No sane person that follows football can or will make that argument in 2 years from now. He could have two record breaking years back to back and win the super bowl in both and I still don't think it's a good argument. If you want to make the argument for 10 years from now, I think that would fit the bucket of unlikely hypothetical, and that would be a good topic, but 2 years is impossible.

 

[blugold]

No. You're trying to defend a non-existent hypothetical. There's no way using any statistical category that has any relevance to the topic that Mahomes will surpass Brady for the #1 QB of this Century in the next two years.

No sane person that follows football can or will make that argument in 2 years from now. He could have two record breaking years back to back and win the super bowl in both and I still don't think it's a good argument. If you want to make the argument for 10 years from now, I think that would fit the bucket of unlikely hypothetical, and that would be a good topic, but 2 years is impossible.

I think I'm not interested in defending this hypothetical much longer. If Mahomes wins the Super Bowl in 2022, 2023 and 2024 (this is insane because it's not happening), that's some good fodder for the discussion. Career stats and championships are not the only criteria to be used.

Michael Jordan is the best basketball player ever, despite not having the career numbers or championships.

 

[Cruskater]

There is a lot to examine. Raw stats from the regular season, postseason, wins, postseason wins, super bowls?

1. Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. TBA (could be Mahomes or another current QB)