The Liv Golf Rumor and News Thread

[Louis_Posture]

How many times, in the last 60 years, were the best players on the planet poached using damn near infinite money?

I'm all for fawning over what the Tour was for a long time, but that's over unless the checkbooks making LIV Golf a thing get bored.

The PGA Tour has always been about players coming up through good play and leaving from poor play, retirement etc... What's remained a constant is well managed tournaments at great golf courses.
If now some players choose to leave the PGA Tour that creates opportunity for emerging players to join it, which is a good thing.
If now the exodus of some well-known name Tour players means corporations will pay less to sponsor a tournament and prize money will be less than in recent years, that is a good thing. Remember it is better financially to spend within one's means, so now a reset of revenues to expenses will make the PGA Tour more financially healthy than it has been in recent years.
I understand there is a common misperception in the media that the PGA Tour is somehow dependent on this or that big name player, but that's just nonsense rhetoric. The compelling factor of the PGA Tour is professionally managed tournaments on great courses, and that will continue because there are hundreds of sensational players ready and willing to participate.

 

[echico]

The PGA Tour has always been about players coming up through good play and leaving from poor play, retirement etc... What's remained a constant is well managed tournaments at great golf courses.
If now some players choose to leave the PGA Tour that creates opportunity for emerging players to join it, which is a good thing.
If now the exodus of some well-known name Tour players means corporations will pay less to sponsor a tournament and prize money will be less than in recent years, that is a good thing. Remember it is better financially to spend within one's means, so now a reset of revenues to expenses will make the PGA Tour more financially healthy than it has been in recent years.
I understand there is a common misperception in the media that the PGA Tour is somehow dependent on this or that big name player, but that's just nonsense rhetoric. The compelling factor of the PGA Tour is professionally managed tournaments on great courses, and that will continue because there are hundreds of sensational players ready and willing to participate.

A lot of players are leaving because they get paid more to compete less. So the answer you come up with is the PGAT players need to play in lower pursed events so they have to play more to keep up with the LIV earnings?

 

[Canadan]

The PGA Tour has always been about players coming up through good play and leaving from poor play, retirement etc... What's remained a constant is well managed tournaments at great golf courses.
If now some players choose to leave the PGA Tour that creates opportunity for emerging players to join it, which is a good thing.
If now the exodus of some well-known name Tour players means corporations will pay less to sponsor a tournament and prize money will be less than in recent years, that is a good thing. Remember it is better financially to spend within one's means, so now a reset of revenues to expenses will make the PGA Tour more financially healthy than it has been in recent years.
I understand there is a common misperception in the media that the PGA Tour is somehow dependent on this or that big name player, but that's just nonsense rhetoric. The compelling factor of the PGA Tour is professionally managed tournaments on great courses, and that will continue because there are hundreds of sensational players ready and willing to participate.

Was the Tour spending within their means, or being greedy? With all the shifting in dollars after LIV came about, I think it's pretty obvious.... and if it's not, head over to Frisco to see what their HQ looks like - they appear on the surface to be rolling in it.

The allure of the PGA Tour was to be the best on the best Tour with the highest skilled players. The appeal to fans was seeing the big names compete. As much as I am excited for new players winning, lacking star power is problematic for a Tour that was already hard to watch on broadcast alone.

You can call it nonsense rhetoric all you want - but that nonsense is most people's reality.

 

[Templet0n]

The PGA Tour has always been about players coming up through good play and leaving from poor play, retirement etc... What's remained a constant is well managed tournaments at great golf courses.
If now some players choose to leave the PGA Tour that creates opportunity for emerging players to join it, which is a good thing.
If now the exodus of some well-known name Tour players means corporations will pay less to sponsor a tournament and prize money will be less than in recent years, that is a good thing. Remember it is better financially to spend within one's means, so now a reset of revenues to expenses will make the PGA Tour more financially healthy than it has been in recent years.
I understand there is a common misperception in the media that the PGA Tour is somehow dependent on this or that big name player, but that's just nonsense rhetoric. The compelling factor of the PGA Tour is professionally managed tournaments on great courses, and that will continue because there are hundreds of sensational players ready and willing to participate.

This is all so incorrect it’s laughable..

 

[macolyte]

I would agree with you but LIV's sister league Performance 54 Aramco series (same owners) plays the same format as LIV and receives Rolex World Rankings so you have to call BS on OWGR's excuses of not being able to rank equitably.

I will keep presenting this argument until someone gives me concrete reasoning why one can get rankings and the other can't although I already know the answer.

We've gone over this before, but I'll try again:

The Aramco Ladies series IS NOT A GOLF LEAGUE. It's not a separate entity. It's part of the Ladies European Tour, which is a recognised tour by the OWGR. IF LIV was part of the PGA Tour (à la WGC) they'd probably get world ranking points. But since they chose to do their own thing, they are not getting any at the moment.

At the very core it comes down to this:
- PIF agrees deal with LET -> World Ranking Points
- PIF does NOT agree deal with PGAT -> NO World Ranking Points

 

[mikeg_74]

I now wonder if the PIF will go after the DP World Tour for world rankings options. DPWT has been left out with this whole PGAT thing and need a partner to dance with

 

[BuckNasty]

I now wonder if the PIF will go after the DP World Tour for world rankings options. DPWT has been left out with this whole PGAT thing and need a partner to dance with

He said they will just work with the governing bodies of the majors to get more LIV players in

 

[Canadan]

It's crazy how easy it is to outplay everyone when you have a massive bank account.

After all the dust settles on this whole thing, that will likely be my biggest takeaway.

 

[Louis_Posture]

A lot of players are leaving because they get paid more to compete less. So the answer you come up with is the PGAT players need to play in lower pursed events so they have to play more to keep up with the LIV earnings?

PGA Tour management and, or PGA Tour players will not succeed if their objective is to "keep up with LIV money".
If their goal is to maintain and strengthen the PGA Tour for long term sustainability, then matching tournament sponsorship requirements to tournament prize money payouts is the best sense strategy. And yes, there are hundreds of sensational players willing to play 25 to 30 tournaments a year for $500,000 to $700,000 first prize money.

 

[Scribble]

Are you truly concerned about Star players?
The PGAT is in a period of consolidation, where there isn’t a needle mover.
How many branded commercials are out with players on equipment deals? Those were the stars. You’re not seeing them right now.
Commercials created, built & reinforced the star power.
Who do you have moving the needle?
It an any given Sunday scenario until the pack forms in April.
The wrap around season dilutes the product, but not the talent.

 

[mikeg_74]

He said they will just work with the governing bodies of the majors to get more LIV players in

I got that, but let's be honest, that is a tall task in it's own. If the governing bodies are willing to make exemptions for majors, they might as well sign off on the OWGR points and save themselves for having to deal with it.

The Masters is the only invitational iirc, and the Opens can be qualified for. That just leaves the PGA which has been the worse of the 4 majors in terms of prestige imo.

 

[echico]

PGA Tour management and, or PGA Tour players will not succeed if their objective is to "keep up with LIV money".
If their goal is to maintain and strengthen the PGA Tour for long term sustainability, then matching tournament sponsorship requirements to tournament prize money payouts is the best sense strategy. And yes, there are hundreds of sensational players willing to play 25 to 30 tournaments a year for $500,000 to $700,000 first prize money.

but if they can't keep up with LIV money the big names will leave. It is human nature. Why would the #1 player in the world play for a winning purse that is $700,000 when the 100th player in the rankings wins $4,000,000 in another league?

If I am getting paid $30,000 a year to be an engineer at a company I would be a fool to not look at a job at another company that lets me work less and make $150,000 a year.

 

[Templet0n]

It's crazy how easy it is to outplay everyone when you have a massive bank account.

After all the dust settles on this whole thing, that will likely be my biggest takeaway.

It's the golden rule. he who has the gold, makes the rules..

 

[Templet0n]

PGA Tour management and, or PGA Tour players will not succeed if their objective is to "keep up with LIV money".
If their goal is to maintain and strengthen the PGA Tour for long term sustainability, then matching tournament sponsorship requirements to tournament prize money payouts is the best sense strategy. And yes, there are hundreds of sensational players willing to play 25 to 30 tournaments a year for $500,000 to $700,000 first prize money.

Can't wait for the youtube tour with Micah Morris and Good Good as the spotlight groups.

 

[Canadan]

but if they can't keep up with LIV money the big names will leave. It is human nature. Why would the #1 player in the world play for a winning purse that is $700,000 when the 100th player in the rankings wins $4,000,000 in another league?

If I am getting paid $30,000 a year to be an engineer at a company I would be a fool to not look at a job at another company that lets me work less and make $150,000 a year.

I get what you're saying here, but the numbers are so stupid, we need the examples to reflect it.

More like 30k to 3 million with options.

 

[JB]

Was the Tour spending within their means, or being greedy? With all the shifting in dollars after LIV came about, I think it's pretty obvious.... and if it's not, head over to Frisco to see what their HQ looks like - they appear on the surface to be rolling in it.

The allure of the PGA Tour was to be the best on the best Tour with the highest skilled players. The appeal to fans was seeing the big names compete. As much as I am excited for new players winning, lacking star power is problematic for a Tour that was already hard to watch on broadcast alone.

You can call it nonsense rhetoric all you want - but that nonsense is most people's reality.

PIP happened soley because they were called out from a certain player in the media for paying participants far less than every other sport based on percentage brought in. Then we have the PIP come in, and reward stars for being stars. It was a spend, by the tour, because they got caught keeping too much.

 

[Canadan]

Can't wait for the youtube tour with Micah Morris and Good Good as the spotlight groups.

the funny part about this, is that the production quality could potentially be better.

 

[Templet0n]

the funny part about this, is that the production quality could potentially be better.

Honestly in some ways, after I said that. I thought, Huh, I watch a lot of youtube golf because in many ways I enjoy it more. I think Bryon bros vs Busta Jack is what they are trying to do with things like "The Match" but literally cant get it right. It seems so simple.

But it is like movies based off really good books or video games. You have really good source material, just adapt that. But no, you have to change it and overdo it. You have this awesome base and if you just understood the assignment to recreate it it would be awesome. But, everyone wants to overthink it.. So, all the "The Match" events blow..

 

[echico]

Honestly in some ways, after I said that. I thought, Huh, I watch a lot of youtube golf because in many ways I enjoy it more. I think Bryon bros vs Busta Jack is what they are trying to do with things like "The Match" but literally cant get it right. It seems so simple.

But it is like movies based off really good books or video games. You have really good source material, just adapt that. But no, you have to change it and overdo it. You have this awesome base and if you just understood the assignment to recreate it it would be awesome. But, everyone wants to overthink it.. So, all the "The Match" events blow..

We saw how YouTube golf translated to TV with the Desert Open. It was awful.

 

[Templet0n]

We saw how YouTube golf translated to TV with the Desert Open. It was awful.

I didn't watch that. For the most part. I don't watch any Good Good except Luke Kwon.. I don't really like the rest of them.. I find them very annoying.

But I will say, they will probably figure out how to make it better faster than the tour will.

 

[Hacker67]

We've gone over this before, but I'll try again:

The Aramco Ladies series IS NOT A GOLF LEAGUE. It's not a separate entity. It's part of the Ladies European Tour, which is a recognised tour by the OWGR. IF LIV was part of the PGA Tour (à la WGC) they'd probably get world ranking points. But since they chose to do their own thing, they are not getting any at the moment.

At the very core it comes down to this:
- PIF agrees deal with LET -> World Ranking Points
- PIF does NOT agree deal with PGAT -> NO World Ranking Points

So because DPWT rejected LIV they get no OWGR. Think about what you're saying. Is this about ranking players or being part of an existing tour?

DPWT and PGAT rejected LIV for monetary and competitive reasons hence the Anti-Trust Violation investigation which is still active.

 

[Hacker67]

Women's rankings and men's rankings are done by 2 different governing bodies. Why would they be the same? We can talk about conspiracies and foil hat stuff but the simple answer is one governing body was ok with team and 54 holes and the other was not.

Another thing is women's golf needs money where as the men's game can pick and choose. PGAT decided they didn't need any of the extra stuff that was being offered with PGL, LIV, etc.

BINGO. I’m so glad you said it.

It's about the MONEY and not accurate rankings.

So if the PGAT was as broke as the LPGA/LET they would have let them into the golf establishment and LIV would have gotten OWGR.

At least we’re getting to the real truth about LIV and OWGR

 

[Louis_Posture]

but if they can't keep up with LIV money the big names will leave. It is human nature. Why would the #1 player in the world play for a winning purse that is $700,000 when the 100th player in the rankings wins $4,000,000 in another league?

If I am getting paid $30,000 a year to be an engineer at a company I would be a fool to not look at a job at another company that lets me work less and make $150,000 a year.

Obviously some players have left the PGA Tour and others will likely do the same, but there is no good sense reason to focus on that or try to change it.
What matters is maintaining the PGA Tour with the corporate sponsors and players who are ready and willing to participate.

 

[echico]

Obviously some players have left the PGA Tour and others will likely do the same, but there is no good sense reason to focus on that or try to change it.
What matters is maintaining the PGA Tour with the corporate sponsors and players who are ready and willing to participate.

So there is no reason to try to keep the best golfers in the world? Tradition and legacy only take you so far. These are professional golfers, they play to make money. Your solutions are to take money out of the professional's pockets.

 

[Birdieputt]

Obviously some players have left the PGA Tour and others will likely do the same, but there is no good sense reason to focus on that or try to change it.
What matters is maintaining the PGA Tour with the corporate sponsors and players who are ready and willing to participate.

in what is becoming a a second class league if you plan is followed.