Casey Martin in the US Open?

[c0ncept]

Chopping off the leg means giving up on the dream - hard to do when you when you know you can still play at such a high level. Also, he'd require amputation above the knee which has a pretty high risk for complications. He's said if they could go below the knee he'd probably have done it already.

He also said he was really attached to it...

(he actually did say that in an interview lol)

 

[MizunoStriker]

I don't think it's right. It is not his constitutional right to play on the PGA. Would it be okay for someone who has poor vision to use binoculars and alignment rods? Once you start making exceptions the floodgates will open. A cart is an advantage. It's as simple as that.

With all due respect you're wrong. The cart is not an advantage its an equalizer. The only way to reverse the situation would be to make Casey walk and give every other player on the course a sever ankle sprain or a severe muscle contusion to the calf or quadriceps.

His ability to walk from shot to shot is not what's being tested, what's being tested is his golf game and he's a heck of a player. He deserves a shot.

 

[RxGus]

I think it's great he's able to play at that level with the leg how it is. Hard enough to keep good balance for a good swing with two good legs. Though, I just don't quite get hanging on when prosthetics are as good as they've gotten. As much as I like my legs, if I knew I was going to have pain the rest of my life and would have to have one amputated at some point anyway, or could have it done now and the pain would go away, I'd chop the puppy off.

As someone already linked to earlier in the thread...

"The problem is, it's still my leg. Even though it's a lousy leg no 100-year-old man would want, I'm attached to it." - Casey Martin

From the medical professional side: Above Knee amputations are nasty. They are not like what many war hero's come back with. Above the knee means no more walking and no more golf. We may have great prosthetic legs, but we don't have good prosthetic knees.

 

[smgoldstein]

Yeah he is disabled, but the lack of fatigue from walking five miles is an advantage

.

Ask any other guy in the field-Would you rather walk with your legs or take a cart with Casey's leg? I don't think you find anyone who would make that trade.

 

[sixcat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6819rUkTqg

This aired on ESPN a year or so ago, it's more relevant now that Casey Martin qualified for the US Open. Check out Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus at the 3:18 mark. I remember thinking how rigid and uninviting the Tour sounded when all of this was going on. I disagreed with the Tour's stance then and I disagree with that stance today. I can't help but think Mr. Palmer and Mr. Nicklaus assessment of where the Tour would be if someone were allowed to ride a cart is a tad bit overstated. This is exactly why golf, especially golf at the highest levels, has the reputation it does.

My thought process is that if ADA compliance is to have any positive affect on the lives of those less fortunate, it has to be enforced wholly and not allowed to be compromised, ever. The PGA Tour is subject to the same rules as every other entity in the United States and does NOT deserve special treatment, even if the "purists" think it is not in the "true spirit of the game". A South African runner qualified for the Olympics recently with a blade in place of an amputated leg, should he not be allowed to compete because he has an "unfair advantage"?

Fast forward 15 years and it's Mr. Nicklaus who is proposing changes to the game that could have devastating affects. See 12 hole courses and bifurcation.

 

[checkered]

As someone already linked to earlier in the thread...

"The problem is, it's still my leg. Even though it's a lousy leg no 100-year-old man would want, I'm attached to it." - Casey Martin

From the medical professional side: Above Knee amputations are nasty. They are not like what many war hero's come back with. Above the knee means no more walking and no more golf. We may have great prosthetic legs, but we don't have good prosthetic knees.

That does make more sense, thanks. and just so it's clear I wasn't trying to lessen anything, it just didn't make sense to me.

 

[RxGus]

That does make more sense, thanks. and just so it's clear I wasn't trying to lessen anything, it just didn't make sense to me.

No worries dude, you are good in my book!


I ran out of witty tapatalk signatures...

 

[TheGeekGolfer]

A South African runner qualified for the Olympics recently with a blade in place of an amputated leg, should he not be allowed to compete because he has an "unfair advantage"?

Yes, he should not be allowed to compete. Running is definitely an integral part of this sport and having some kind of prosthetic in place of one of your legs could prove to be an advantage (as things move forward). Faster materials for the 'blade' portion, more spring, etc. The ruling for golf is a bit different (IMO), because walking the course is NOT AS integral as the rest of the sport. If it was 'speed golf' and you were judged on your strokes AND time to play, that would be different.

 

[fastbasser]

Being a handicapped golfer, there is NOTHING a real handicapped golfer can do to give themselves an advantage over a non handicapped golfer. What I have found is non handicapped want no part of be defeated by a handicapped one.

Those who think other wise have lost touch with reality!

JMHO!

 

[bogeybrain]

there is a distinct advantage to having a cart in golf. i can play 3 rounds in a day if im riding. if im walking at the end of the second round i feel my age. this particular case with casey martin if someone has a problem with him having a cart then they should die in a fire because id bet you casey martin would trade shoes with any of them

 

[fastbasser]

there is a distinct advantage to having a cart in golf. i can play 3 rounds in a day if im riding. if im walking at the end of the second round i feel my age. this particular case with casey martin if someone has a problem with him having a cart then they should die in a fire because id bet you casey martin would trade shoes with any of them

Sadly, many here would piss a b*tch rather than give someone like him a break. We all know the rules. We all must use common sense though.

 

[sixcat]

Yes, he should not be allowed to compete. Running is definitely an integral part of this sport and having some kind of prosthetic in place of one of your legs could prove to be an advantage (as things move forward). Faster materials for the 'blade' portion, more spring, etc. The ruling for golf is a bit different (IMO), because walking the course is NOT AS integral as the rest of the sport. If it was 'speed golf' and you were judged on your strokes AND time to play, that would be different.

Lets cross-reference. Based on your conclusion, dyslexic children should not be in the same classroom with anyone other than dyslexic children. They receive more one on one, "specialized" attention that the other students don't get. So I guess that gives them an unfair advantage over the "normal" students! The comparisons are endless, what makes golf or any other entity above what is fair and decent in terms of humanity. I guess Casey Martin and this South African runner should just compete in the Special Olympics as to not offend the moral majority.

This is just my opinion and nothing more and in no way intended to spark debate. This "elitist", "purist" attitude toward golf is why the sport is not growing. Would your club rather have people pay to play on a regular basis who may, lets say, kick it up a little in the rough or have members ridicule them for not playing strictly by the rule book and have those paying customers never return. My guess is the former.

I love golf but golfers can be so dammed ridiculous sometimes.

 

[sixcat]

Sadly, many here would piss a b*tch rather than give someone like him a break. We all know the rules. We all must use common sense though.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pjcedog]

I think all PGAers should be able play from carts if they want. Walking or not walking is no big deal, golf is not a fitness challenge like a triathlon, it is a skill test.

 

[fastbasser]

This is just my opinion and nothing more and in no way intended to spark debate. This "elitist", "purist" attitude toward golf is why the sport is not growing. Would your club rather have people pay to play on a regular basis who may, lets say, kick it up a little in the rough or have members ridicule them for not playing strictly by the rule book and have those paying customers never return. My guess is the former.

I love golf but golfers can be so dammed ridiculous sometimes.

Most of us follow and respect the rules of golf even though some are absolutely stupid and do nothing more than take up space in a rule book! And yes, some "elitists" work very hard at keeping it a "sport of kings".. Many of these people are no better than the "little guy" at our club. They should try fixing a ball mark!!

I do agree riding is easier than walking. I would rather see someone ride and golf than not golf. Most of the older guys at our club ride. Sadly, many of our younger players realize it is and advantage and ride as well..

Riding out of necessity and riding to gain an advantage are to different things. Please don't confuse or compare the two..

 

[RxGus]

Most of us follow and respect the rules of golf even though some are absolutely stupid and do nothing more than take up space in a rule book! And yes, some "elitists" work very hard at keeping it a "sport of kings".. Many of these people are no better than the "little guy" at our club. They should try fixing a ball mark!!

I do agree riding is easier than walking. I would rather see someone ride and golf than not golf. Most of the older guys ate our club ride. Sadly, many of our younger players realize it is and advantage and ride as well..

Riding out of necessity and riding to gain an advantage are to different things. Please don't confuse or compare the two..

There was a series of studies done out west in the early 2000's by golf digest showing players scored better when they walked verses riding.
This is true for me as well. All 4 of my best 18 hole scores have come from walking instead of riding.

 

[ddec]

There was a series of studies done out west in the early 2000's by golf digest showing players scored better when they walked verses riding.
This is true for me as well. All 4 of my best 18 hole scores have come from walking instead of riding.

I used to think that I always played better when I walked vs ride. However the more I think about it and look at scores I realize it's just not true. I walk majority of my rounds and my scores are pretty comparable either way.

 

[JB]

There was a series of studies done out west in the early 2000's by golf digest showing players scored better when they walked verses riding.
This is true for me as well. All 4 of my best 18 hole scores have come from walking instead of riding.

You should ask them where the study took place.

 

[jacob1]

While I was in Arizona the other week. I didn't see anyone walking.alot of the tee boxes was a LONG way from the green. And lots of up and down. I don't see how walking will improve your score. If it does maybe I should start walking. LOL. Personally I don't care if he rides. I think it's great that he made it in!

 

[HuskAir]

Glad he made it. Hope he makes the cut on Friday!

 

[RxGus]

You should ask them where the study took place.

I spent about 20 minutes this morning trying to find the story, so I could post a link. I remember reading it a couple years ago, and I could have sworn it was in California... but I could very well be wrong.

JB- do you know the "study" I am talking about?

 

[JB]

I spent about 20 minutes this morning trying to find the story, so I could post a link. I remember reading it a couple years ago, and I could have sworn it was in California... but I could very well be wrong.

JB- do you know the "study" I am talking about?

I do and it was blah if you ask me. Geography plays just a large a role in any study like this as anything else. I love being told that walking brings better focus by someone living in the north. Try telling me that as they look like a lobster and are a dripping mess when they play in anything resembling heat.

This entire argument that walking is better for scoring vs riding or vice versa is ridiculous. Its completely dependent on the person and the course However here is some food for thought. If real golf is walking (this is not directed at Gus), etc, then why does just about every tour pro on the planet ride with the exception of tournament conditions (ie tourney rounds and practice rounds at tourney course). They all ride at their regular courses and frankly if it made that much difference they would walk.

 

[coolbreeze]

I do and it was blah if you ask me. Geography plays just a large a role in any study like this as anything else. I love being told that walking brings better focus by someone living in the north. Try telling me that as they look like a lobster and are a dripping mess when they play in anything resembling heat.

This entire argument that walking is better for scoring vs riding or vice versa is ridiculous. Its completely dependent on the person and the course However here is some food for thought. If real golf is walking (this is not directed at Gus), etc, then why does just about every tour pro on the planet ride with the exception of tournament conditions (ie tourney rounds and practice rounds at tourney course). They all ride at their regular courses and frankly if it made that much difference they would walk.

THats interesting JB, I just assumed they walked every round they played to make their practice rounds more like their tournament rounds and to get that exercise in. I learned something today.

 

[ddec]

THats interesting JB, I just assumed they walked every round they played to make their practice rounds more like their tournament rounds and to get that exercise in. I learned something today.

In Haney's book he talks about how TW's golf cart goes like 30 MPH so they could play more holes throughout the day at a fast pace.

 

[RxGus]

I do and it was blah if you ask me. Geography plays just a large a role in any study like this as anything else. I love being told that walking brings better focus by someone living in the north. Try telling me that as they look like a lobster and are a dripping mess when they play in anything resembling heat.

This entire argument that walking is better for scoring vs riding or vice versa is ridiculous. Its completely dependent on the person and the course However here is some food for thought. If real golf is walking (this is not directed at Gus), etc, then why does just about every tour pro on the planet ride with the exception of tournament conditions (ie tourney rounds and practice rounds at tourney course). They all ride at their regular courses and frankly if it made that much difference they would walk.

This is the first year I have ridden more often than I have walked- mostly due to my knee injury and not trusting it on my very hilly home course.

One reason that I can think of for pro's not walking during "fun" rounds, is that they don't carry their own bag. I would assume that if a pro was going to play an off schedule round and walk that they would be carrying their own bag. I don't mind it doing it because it's what I am used to... but I can't imagine Phil wanting to lug around is own staff bag for a round. I am not sure it has to do with scroing.

I don't really think there is all that big of a difference in scoring. I just thought it was worth pointing out that everyone seems to assume that Martin has an advantage by riding yet there are a least one or two studies (albiet "blah" studies... I haven't read them for a while, and trust JB's opinions) that indicate riding may be a disadvantage. I guess I just wanted to challenge the commonly held belief that Martin has some large advantage over the rest of the field.