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Putting; Tracking your stats

SeeMore Golf
I use my stats to make it easy for me to see where I lost strokes and to help me see where I need the most work, I think that is what war eagle uses them for as well.
 
Lefty78 said:
Well, I'm in good company (with you) because I do it the same way. If it is on the fringe I usually consider it a putt. It is a putt to me when the effect of the fringe or collar is negligible.
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Exactly my thinking, Lefty.
majBC said:
I use my stats to make it easy for me to see where I lost strokes and to help me see where I need the most work, I think that is what war eagle uses them for as well.
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Right, and that is why I still consider it a missed green as well.
 
Missed green and not a putt.
 
War is weird and anyone that does as he says is just as weird.

0 putts FTW!
 
I do not count a stroke as a putt unless it is on the green and only the green. Some courses I have played have fringe that would be horrible to putt from due to length where as other courses have fairways that I could putt down. Counting only putts from the green takes course variability out of the equation.
 
This is interesting because there has been several times where you hit a drive in the direction you want and it happens to run out of fairway due to the slope of the fairway and you end up in the first cut. FIR or not? I have said it isnt when tracking my stats but it was a solid strike and I was happy with it so maybe from now on I tick yes to FIR. GIR on the other hand more control of the ball so it must be on the dance floor to count and putts have to be on the green to count as a stroke.
War Eagle said:
For me, tracking my stats this way came about from an article I read by Phil about a year ago. Phil counts every tee shot in the fairway or first cut as a Fairway in Regulation, just as he counts all putts he uses a putting stroke on toward his putt total.

He said he did this to track his performance and numbers, as he felt that the first cut was not penalizing enough in most situations when missing a fairway, and still considered that part of the "extended fairway." In regards to the putting, he said that a good bit of courses he plays on you can putt easily from off the green w/ a putting motion and get a true roll from it. So, he decided to keep those numbers as well to see how his putting game was going.
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To each his own. If you're only measuring against yourself it doesn't really matter as long as you are consistent in always counting the same way.

For me anything off the green is not a putt. I figure 34 to 36 putts per round as average, 33 to 30 putts very good for me and anything 29 and under as outstanding. I feel like I get a good enough read on how my putting is going by counting just the one's on the green.
 
cpljohnst said:
To each his own. If you're only measuring against yourself it doesn't really matter as long as you are consistent in always counting the same way.

For me anything off the green is not a putt. I figure 34 to 36 putts per round as average, 33 to 30 putts very good for me and anything 29 and under as outstanding. I feel like I get a good enough read on how my putting is going by counting just the one's on the green.
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Problem I have with total putts is it should be looked at along with GIR.. You could it 20% GIR but nail 29 putts but youve 1 putted a couple holes as you chipped to a couple feet.
 
Smudger said:
Problem I have with total putts is it should be looked at along with GIR.. You could it 20% GIR but nail 29 putts but youve 1 putted a couple holes as you chipped to a couple feet.
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Here is an excellent thread about putts per round: http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?15605-Putts-Per-Round-Overrated-Number

And about the part of your post that I bolded, those who count putts that are not really putts have inflated putts per round totals. So it could make them look like a worse putter than someone who either doesn't count those "putts" from the fringe as a putt or who chips close a lot, even if everyone knows they are a lot better putter.
 
Smudger said:
Problem I have with total putts is it should be looked at along with GIR.. You could it 20% GIR but nail 29 putts but youve 1 putted a couple holes as you chipped to a couple feet.
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This is very true. I'm also able to look at putting by GIR. I still think Total Putts gives me an idea of how I've done. I tend to look at three stats in in combination to get a total picture of my putting. Total Putts. Putts on GIR. Scrambling Percentage.

What you said above is why the PGA tour has gone away from talking about Total Putts and now uses the Strokes-Gained statistic.
 
not possible for us to look at strokes gained putting :( I havent kept track of my scrambling % before but I know it could be better so perhaps I should track it from now on.
 
If its not on the green, its not a Putt - for instance, on a Par-Four if you land just short or on the fringe for your second shot, do you count that as a GIR? I do not because it is not on the putting surface.

I occasionally to use my putter from the rough/fairway - as my Dad calls it and I am sure many of you have heard - its a "Texas Wedge"
 
Smudger said:
not possible for us to look at strokes gained putting :( I havent kept track of my scrambling % before but I know it could be better so perhaps I should track it from now on.
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Scrambling is a good one. It really gives you an idea of your chipping/pitching/bunker play. But I feel that at the same time it gives you a glimpse of pressure putting as well. Especially for someone like me who is weaker in the short game area and leaves a lot of 5 to 12 foot putts after the short game shot.
 
ShanksaloT said:
If its not on the green, its not a Putt - for instance, on a Par-Four if you land just short or on the fringe for your second shot, do you count that as a GIR? I do not because it is not on the putting surface.

I occasionally to use my putter from the rough/fairway - as my Dad calls it and I am sure many of you have heard - its a "Texas Wedge"
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That's the problem with counting strokes as putts from the fringe or just outside of the fringe, or on the apron. It may make you look like a worse putter than you are, but the other side of that is that it wil make it look like your better at your approach shots than you are as well. It would appear as though you had a GIR when, in fact, you do not. If you're keeping your stats on a scorecard with hand written notes, you may not pick that up, but if you are using an app, like GolfShot or GolfLogix, then it throws both stats off. Personally, I use the official stat just because of that reasoning. It's official regardless of the fact that I'm not a pro, will never be a pro and will probably never compete as an amateur outide of a fund raising type scramble. If I can ignore that rule, then I can ignore many other rules as well such as "Yeah I addressed the ball, chunked 6" behind it, the ball didn't move so it was a practice stroke" LOL.

As long as you are consistent with yourself, that is the big picture. Are you taking something away from it and making yourself a better player through your methodology. As long as you don't try to compare your stats to someone else who is using the official format, then it won't matter.

To hijack the thread and another point to ponder. I was playing with a group this weekend and we had a two hour trip to play at Old Kinderhook on Lake of the Ozarks, great course if you get the chance, a putting rule question was raised. You're on an hour glass shaped green with deep rough between where your ball is and the pin at the other side of the green. You decide to use a wedge to "chip" over the rough to get from one side of the green to the side with the pin. Is that a putt? We came to the consensus that it was due to the thought that once the ball is on the green every stroke after that is considered a putt.

This goes in hand with the post earlier that talked about putting off of the green, then chipping back onto it. ALL of those strokes are actually putts I believe.

Thoughts?
 
Texasbrons said:
That's the problem with counting strokes as putts from the fringe or just outside of the fringe, or on the apron. It may make you look like a worse putter than you are, but the other side of that is that it wil make it look like your better at your approach shots than you are as well. It would appear as though you had a GIR when, in fact, you do not. If you're keeping your stats on a scorecard with hand written notes, you may not pick that up, but if you are using an app, like GolfShot or GolfLogix, then it throws both stats off. Personally, I use the official stat just because of that reasoning. It's official regardless of the fact that I'm not a pro, will never be a pro and will probably never compete as an amateur outide of a fund raising type scramble. If I can ignore that rule, then I can ignore many other rules as well such as "Yeah I addressed the ball, chunked 6" behind it, the ball didn't move so it was a practice stroke" LOL.

As long as you are consistent with yourself, that is the big picture. Are you taking something away from it and making yourself a better player through your methodology. As long as you don't try to compare your stats to someone else who is using the official format, then it won't matter.

To hijack the thread and another point to ponder. I was playing with a group this weekend and we had a two hour trip to play at Old Kinderhook on Lake of the Ozarks, great course if you get the chance, a putting rule question was raised. You're on an hour glass shaped green with deep rough between where your ball is and the pin at the other side of the green. You decide to use a wedge to "chip" over the rough to get from one side of the green to the side with the pin. Is that a putt? We came to the consensus that it was due to the thought that once the ball is on the green every stroke after that is considered a putt.

This goes in hand with the post earlier that talked about putting off of the green, then chipping back onto it. ALL of those strokes are actually putts I believe.

Thoughts?
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Technically, it is a putt, regardless of what club you use on the green.
 
I never count them. If it helps you keep more useful stats then i see no reason not to though. I usually enter my scores into oob (or something) and that would skew some stuff though.
 
Texasbrons said:
That's the problem with counting strokes as putts from the fringe or just outside of the fringe, or on the apron. It may make you look like a worse putter than you are, but the other side of that is that it wil make it look like your better at your approach shots than you are as well. It would appear as though you had a GIR when, in fact, you do not. If you're keeping your stats on a scorecard with hand written notes, you may not pick that up, but if you are using an app, like GolfShot or GolfLogix, then it throws both stats off. Personally, I use the official stat just because of that reasoning. It's official regardless of the fact that I'm not a pro, will never be a pro and will probably never compete as an amateur outide of a fund raising type scramble. If I can ignore that rule, then I can ignore many other rules as well such as "Yeah I addressed the ball, chunked 6" behind it, the ball didn't move so it was a practice stroke" LOL.

As long as you are consistent with yourself, that is the big picture. Are you taking something away from it and making yourself a better player through your methodology. As long as you don't try to compare your stats to someone else who is using the official format, then it won't matter.

To hijack the thread and another point to ponder. I was playing with a group this weekend and we had a two hour trip to play at Old Kinderhook on Lake of the Ozarks, great course if you get the chance, a putting rule question was raised. You're on an hour glass shaped green with deep rough between where your ball is and the pin at the other side of the green. You decide to use a wedge to "chip" over the rough to get from one side of the green to the side with the pin. Is that a putt? We came to the consensus that it was due to the thought that once the ball is on the green every stroke after that is considered a putt.

This goes in hand with the post earlier that talked about putting off of the green, then chipping back onto it. ALL of those strokes are actually putts I believe.

Thoughts?
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That is why I use the official stat - because I would not consider that a "GIR" - I did not hit the green, I hit the fringe is just landed short - the putt from off the green does not count as a Putt - it counts as an "approach"/"chip"

And I do not think I am making myself a "better player" - I am using the official stat as it looks like almost everyone else is in this thread and I am consistent with it so that I will be able to "compare myself to other players" - I play competitive golf in mini-tourneys and with friends for lunch - and I do not fool myself by saying "Oh I putted from off the fringe so I will count that as a GIR" - I am realistic with myself. It is the only way I will get better....

As for the "chipping" on the green, I would count that as a Putt - also, I would like to see a picture of this green - it sounds wild that the shape would be that drastic with a need to chip...
 
I only count putts that are on the green. In the past I would count the fringe also but there was too much gray area for me to get a good feel for what I was doing.
 
I don't count them as putts when I track, but I understand the reasoning behind why you would. But counting them as putts in my app would then count that hole as a GIR. So, you are making your putting stats look worse, but at the same time you're making your approach game seem better than it is. And what if the ball is in the first 1/2 inch of "rough" outside the fringe but you putt it or 2 feet off the green in front on the fairway and you putt it (as I would), do you still count that as a putt or not? You have to draw the line somewhere.
 
I don't count them, but I definitely see why you do.
 
If we've labeled putting from the rough instead of chipping as chutting, perhaps putting from the fringe could be called PIPPING
 
War Eagle said:
In the PING Scottsdale TR forum testing thread, a question was asked about counting putts from the fringe and if we are averaging those in to our putts per round totals.

While I realize that a putt from the fringe is not counted officially as a putt, I count these in my totals (but still mark it as a missed green). The reason I do this is, when keeping track of my stats, I look to this information to show where I need to spend more time working. For me, counting every putt, whether it's from the fringe of the green or now, gives me a more accurate projection of where my putting game is. When keeping these stats, I will try and make note that one of my putts was from slightly off the green, but again, I still like to keep that total number to see how my game with the flat stick is.

Anyone else do this? Do it another way?
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I do it the same way. However if I Chutt I do not count it as a putt.
 
War Eagle said:
For me, tracking my stats this way came about from an article I read by Phil about a year ago. Phil counts every tee shot in the fairway or first cut as a Fairway in Regulation, just as he counts all putts he uses a putting stroke on toward his putt total.

He said he did this to track his performance and numbers, as he felt that the first cut was not penalizing enough in most situations when missing a fairway, and still considered that part of the "extended fairway." In regards to the putting, he said that a good bit of courses he plays on you can putt easily from off the green w/ a putting motion and get a true roll from it. So, he decided to keep those numbers as well to see how his putting game was going.
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This makes sense. I rarely putt from the fringe but if I do it is short and a great lie, so maybe I should count them.
 
golf4life said:
I don't count them as putts when I track, but I understand the reasoning behind why you would. But counting them as putts in my app would then count that hole as a GIR. So, you are making your putting stats look worse, but at the same time you're making your approach game seem better than it is. And what if the ball is in the first 1/2 inch of "rough" outside the fringe but you putt it or 2 feet off the green in front on the fairway and you putt it (as I would), do you still count that as a putt or not? You have to draw the line somewhere.
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It's already drawn, as far as stats go. It's right where the fringe meets the green!

I would say that if you are using a stats app or program, you gotta count it as not a putt because as many have said, it throws off your GIR (unless you are that bad that you are always on in a couple shots more than regulation). Keep track of it on your scorecard and enter it into a spreadsheet later. Maybe create a spreadsheet where you keep track of how many times you use each club?
 
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