We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Hybrids MPG vs cost of car

BigLeftyinAZ

BigLeftyinAZ

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
2,440
Reaction score
136
Location
San Antonio, TX
Wondering if the Fuel mileage of these cars are worth the extra costs?


They don't to me.Back in the 80's Honda had a car hitting 45+ MPG. Now They are excited if a car can achieve 30+ .Why and how did we go backwards?

From what I can tell most Hybrids don't have much style or any other function besides commuting back and forth to work or a small trip to the store.

My current car ( Mini Cooper) May not be practical either,but it sure is more exciting to drive.Plus I get 38+ MPG and spent far less then buying a hybrid.

Hybrids are suppose to be our future,but what happens to all those batteries that go bad?My car takes 1 small one and most hybrids have 4+ larger ones?
 
The Prius is worth it if the situation is right. The bigger the difference in the gas mileage between the two vehicles, the one you are getting rid of and the hybrid, and the longer your commute the better off you will be making the switch. It is not worth it for purely economic reasons if your current vehicle is getting anything over 20 MPG.
 
Honda addressed your question in an article a year or two ago, I wish I still had the link. In short though; they argued that emissions restrictions, and safety requirements combined for a heavier and less efficient car in order to create a car that produces lower exhaust numbers.

There just ain't no sense in the EPA.

They did the same thing with diesel, when they launched ULSD. It burns 10% cleaner, but is 15% less efficient, so you wind up burning more fuel in the end, introducing more toxins into the air. It's silly.


I'm still not convinced that having a hybrid is cost effective just yet. The technologies are still in their infancy, and in a few years may become more realistic, but not yet.

I do see diesel technology being more relevant for several more years. VW has taken a big leap in introducing their new 'clean diesel' engines in cars for 2010. Light truck makers (Ford, Chevy, Dodge + Toyota) were supposed to launch diesel trucks in the ½ ton category this year, but most have shelved the project for one reason or another. I for one am excited about a 30mpg full sized pickup.
 
Gummi Bear said:
Honda addressed your question in an article a year or two ago, I wish I still had the link. In short though; they argued that emissions restrictions, and safety requirements combined for a heavier and less efficient car in order to create a car that produces lower exhaust numbers.

There just ain't no sense in the EPA.

They did the same thing with diesel, when they launched ULSD. It burns 10% cleaner, but is 15% less efficient, so you wind up burning more fuel in the end, introducing more toxins into the air. It's silly.


I'm still not convinced that having a hybrid is cost effective just yet. The technologies are still in their infancy, and in a few years may become more realistic, but not yet.

I do see diesel technology being more relevant for several more years. VW has taken a big leap in introducing their new 'clean diesel' engines in cars for 2010. Light truck makers (Ford, Chevy, Dodge + Toyota) were supposed to launch diesel trucks in the ½ ton category this year, but most have shelved the project for one reason or another. I for one am excited about a 30mpg full sized pickup.
Click to expand...

Gummi pretty much hit it on the head there. Back when Geo Metros were 45+ mpg the emissions and safety requirements were much less restrictive. All the added weight and emissions scrubbing leaves you with much lower mpg figures.

Hybrids are more of a stop-gap/band-aid type solution than anything. Diesels get much better mileage vs. cost, but here in the US they've had a hard time catching on. In Europe, it's the opposite. Lots of diesel options, great mileage, and as if not more available than the gas engine versions.

The basic numbers I've heard thrown around the industry is that for you to see a return on the extra cost of a hybrid vehicle (vs. a gas variant) it takes about 10 years. A diesel is around 3-5 years I believe.
 
Osahar said:
The basic numbers I've heard thrown around the industry is that for you to see a return on the extra cost of a hybrid vehicle (vs. a gas variant) it takes about 10 years. A diesel is around 3-5 years I believe.
Click to expand...

Obviously this clearly depends on the model and how many miles are being put on in a year. With many cars and credit situations nowadays, it does not matter sticker price for some as much as monthly payment. In that case if the payment can be close per month, the savings are there for people on a paycheck to paycheck basis.
 
JB said:
Obviously this clearly depends on the model and how many miles are being put on in a year. With many cars and credit situations nowadays, it does not matter sticker price for some as much as monthly payment. In that case if the payment can be close per month, the savings are there for people on a paycheck to paycheck basis.
Click to expand...

And people living on a paycheck to paycheck basis who continue to think like that will always be on that basis. You have to look at total cost of ownership, not can I afford the payment. The old English saying was "Penny wise and pound foolish."
 
C-Tech said:
And people living on a paycheck to paycheck basis who continue to think like that will always be on that basis. You have to look at total cost of ownership, not can I afford the payment. The old English saying was "Penny wise and pound foolish."
Click to expand...

Im not sure I agree. In general principle you are right. And 90% of most debt you are dead on about. But with mortgage and car payments I am not sure I agree. Most people we know never "own" their car or their home. So what is really important to them is that they can afford their monthly payments. With the reduced cost of gas in a hybrid if they can get their payment in their terms is what works.
 
BigLeftyinAZ said:
Wondering if the Fuel mileage of these cars are worth the extra costs?


They don't to me.Back in the 80's Honda had a car hitting 45+ MPG. Now They are excited if a car can achieve 30+ .Why and how did we go backwards?

From what I can tell most Hybrids don't have much style or any other function besides commuting back and forth to work or a small trip to the store.

My current car ( Mini Cooper) May not be practical either,but it sure is more exciting to drive.Plus I get 38+ MPG and spent far less then buying a hybrid.

Hybrids are suppose to be our future,but what happens to all those batteries that go bad?My car takes 1 small one and most hybrids have 4+ larger ones?
Click to expand...

I'm shocked your golf clubs can fit in the Mini... :act-up:
 
I just want to know why people spend the extra money on a Escalade Hybrid. You pay close to 80 grand and it still only averages 20 miles per gallon. A regular one averages about 15 miles per gallon. You would have to hold onto it for over 10 years to make up the difference.
 
TheGasman said:
I just want to know why people spend the extra money on a Escalade Hybrid. You pay close to 80 grand and it still only averages 20 miles per gallon. A regular one averages about 15 miles per gallon. You would have to hold onto it for over 10 years to make up the difference.
Click to expand...

That one has confused me as well. The Tahoe & Escalade see little real return for adding in the hybrid technology. Of course, GM uses a "mild" hybrid system which is truly not worth the added cost. The Toyota, Honda, Ford, & Nissan hybrids see a much better boost in fuel economy by comparison. Great example is to look at the mid-size offerings from each:

Source: fueleconomy.gov
Chevy Malibu....26 city/34 hwy
Toyota Camry...33 city/34 hwy
Ford Fusion.......41 city/36 hwy
Nissan Altima....35 city/33 hwy
 
22 years ago I bought a new Ford Festiva, ugly little thing but it was cheap & got 38-40 mpg hauling 4 people at 80mph.

My wifes Kia Soul cost almost 3 times as much, has the same size motor & gets 30 mpg. And it has the benefit of 20 years of technology.:confused2:
 
dynarider said:
22 years ago I bought a new Ford Festiva, ugly little thing but it was cheap & got 38-40 mpg hauling 4 people at 80mph.

My wifes Kia Soul cost almost 3 times as much, has the same size motor & gets 30 mpg. And it has the benefit of 20 years of technology.:confused2:
Click to expand...

Depends on how you measure the benefits.

Better fuel economy? Definitely not.

Safer and cleaner emissions? Absolutely.
 
A lot of the technology adds weight which kills gas mileage. Traction control, ABS, tire inflation detectors, a dozen airbags, etc all add quite a bit of weight.
 
TheGasman said:
I just want to know why people spend the extra money on a Escalade Hybrid. You pay close to 80 grand and it still only averages 20 miles per gallon. A regular one averages about 15 miles per gallon. You would have to hold onto it for over 10 years to make up the difference.
Click to expand...

Escalade Hybrid is an oxymoron.
 
Whether or not a hybrid makes sense depends upon where you drive. If you do most of your driving in the city, a hybrid makes a lot of sense because you will save a lot of gas as compared to driving an all-gas car. With an all-gas car, when sitting idling at a stoplight or in traffic, you are wasting gas. With a hybrid, it runs on electric below speeds of 45 mph, so it can sit in traffic all day long and not burn a drop of gas.
If you do most of your driving on the highway, a hybrid wont save you much, if any money.
About hybrids, "not being stylish", what are you talking about, Lefty? They are just as stylish as any car and in the case of cars like the Lexus RX 350H or HS; they are as stylish and luxurious as any car on the road.
Lefty, you spoke of the Hondas of the '80s that got 45 mpg. Those cars put out what, about 80 hp? Nowdays most small cars are putting out anywhere from 120-160 hp (some even more than that), so 35 mpg is pretty darned good.
You also speak of what do you do when the batteries go bad? What makes you so sure that the battery pack is going to go bad? In NYC there are Prius taxi cabs that have over 300,000 miles on them and are still running strong on the original battery pack. IMO, if it can handle that environment; it can handle anything the average person would ask of it.
Lefty, you also speak of how your Mini Cooper is more exciting to drive. Trust me, Lefty, in a drag race a Prius would smoke your Mini. This is because the gas and electric motors can work together when they need to.
 
A hybrid-head is around 100 cc. It hits around 200 yards. I think that's around 4.3 miles per gallon! Not bad for a golf-club!
 
Prius batteries have a 10 year 100K mile warranty I believe, if they go bad they are replaced. If you keep it longer than that and they go bad then you will spend probably $15,000 replacing them at that time. They are real peppy and roomier than I would have thought. They are good vehicles no matter where you drive. Well, maybe not if you live on the Navajo Reservation and need a 4WD pickup just to get to the end of your driveway 9 months out of the year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top