Unreal4all
New member
I love my RAC TP Forged blades! Probably haven't seen anyone else play them since they first came out.
Clubs That Didn't Catch On
I love my RAC TP Forged blades! Probably haven't seen anyone else play them since they first came out.
JLit
Active member
A lot of talk about the JPX irons here, and it must be regionally, because the 825 Pro is our best seller by far. The standard version is our third with the X Hot sandwiched in between.
I can't speak to the the woods but the irons are as solid an offering as Tbey come.
I can't speak to the the woods but the irons are as solid an offering as Tbey come.
I am interested to hear some opinions on what is considered a 'major' brand. IMO, the major, and subsequesnt club brands are categorized as follows.
Major (top tier):
Taylor Made
Titleist
Ping
Callaway
Nike (on the fence, but added to top tier due to Tiger and Rory on staff)
Next tier:
Mizuno
Cleveland
Cobra
Adams
Hogan
Bottom tier:
McGregor
Wilson
Tour Edge
Bridgestone
everyone else
Major (top tier):
Taylor Made
Titleist
Ping
Callaway
Nike (on the fence, but added to top tier due to Tiger and Rory on staff)
Next tier:
Mizuno
Cleveland
Cobra
Adams
Hogan
Bottom tier:
McGregor
Wilson
Tour Edge
Bridgestone
everyone else
They are absolutely great. Super soft, better feel that almost any wedge I've hit, and the sole grind makes them very resistant to digging, like the CMB's - I had to really put a bad swing on to hit them fat. This is excellent for me because my most common miss is hitting it slightly fat. Not sure about spin so much because I wasn't hitting at real greens, but something tells me than the DG Spinner shafts will provide plenty. If I didn't love my old rac TP wedges so much, I would definitely be picking up a few Pugliellis.
ryebread
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I'm not sure exactly how you are classifying the Tiers. Is this based on advertising, quality, tour staffers, popularity?
The reason I mention this is that I personally believe that Tour Edge (Exotics and CB lines) and Mizuno make top tier clubs from a quality perspective. I'd put them in a group with Ping and Titelist and their respective resale values seem to suggest this. TM, Callaway and Nike, while making good product, are in what I'd put as the B group. While I've not personally played Bridgestone, I suspect they're at least on par with the TM, Callaway, Nike, Cobra, Cleveland group. I doubt you're saying this based on quality though.
If you're looking at popularity, then that's a bit closer. I'd put Hogan into the bottom group though because no one plays them. I've not seen a Hogan on the course in a long time. Really, I'd probably put Titelist in the B group because I see more Mizuno, Adams and Cobra gear than I see Titelist.
I suspect you are basing this on staffers. That's not really something I keep up with. To me, what a company has paid someone to advertise for has little merit in what I will ultimately play. Of course, my WITB probably reflects that.
Callaway Razr X Black driver.
It came out the same year as the Fit, I believe, which completely overshadowed it. And it was apparently was such a high launcher that it fizzled on its own merits.
I sometimes wonder if that club was the impetus for Harry's later statements that Callaway had to get back to making clubs for the better player.
It came out the same year as the Fit, I believe, which completely overshadowed it. And it was apparently was such a high launcher that it fizzled on its own merits.
I sometimes wonder if that club was the impetus for Harry's later statements that Callaway had to get back to making clubs for the better player.
Smallville
#ICanHitADraw
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Loved them, plus I liked the look, which a lot of people in a THP wedge shootout didn't care for. My wife is using them now.
TripleBogieTim
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I am probably skimming.....but the TM XFT wedges should have been a hit.....how could you not like getting basically a new wedge for the price of a new $30 face insert.
sleuth
Active member
I've been an Adams fan for oh so long. Loved a lot of the tour issue hybrids, and always loved there forged irons. The woods and wedges usually fell flat for me, unfortunately. Really like the current LS line, but not enough to kick the Cleveland's out. If I continue and hit the Clevelands as accurately as I do now, I don't think they'll ever leave my bag. CMB are great. Since you didn't want my set I put them back in the bag with great results :act-up:. Noticeably more forgiving then my Pro Golds on a couple misses. Hopefully the results maintain.
I'm also a little concerned with how TM will effect the Adams product. TM used to make some great irons, that I would gladly game. Now it's some what of a mixed, hodge podge that doesn't really make sense to me. Take for instance the iron releases. They strayed away from forging and went straight for the GI market. Business 101, chase the money. So the strategy is sound, but a reason I don't particularly like there irons. Last ones I can remember enjoying were the RAC TP.
ryebread
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Tequila: You know I love your posts and I think this was a good one. I think the marketing idea behind the Black was brilliant. People loved the looks of the blacked out Octane that was on the European market (I think that was the Tour version). I'd see post after post where people said they loved the look and wanted that. Why not make a US release with slight tweaks for forgiveness and a look that would make the average golfer salivate?
The Razr X Black was seemingly a bust though when it hit. I've not seen many on the course and it seemed to have little to no buzz when compared to what the X Hot and Octane did. Those drivers were both arguably better than their more costly siblings.
My experiences with it was mixed. The first day I picked it up, I probably hit 20 different drivers on a sim. I had a really smooth tempo that day, and I just crushed it (for me). It went high, dead straight and 10 yards further than anything else. I also thought the crown graphics and shaft graphics were beautiful. It was brand new at the time though, so I put it back because it wasn't in my budget.
I later purchased the club (on an end of season fire sale), and found the face to be too shallow. Given my miss is high/low and not lateral, it was not the club for me. The Black actually wasn't forgiving for me because of my miss, and the shaft was just too long. I reverted to the deeper and shorter shafted Octane (mid round one day) and had much better results.
There are a couple of people on here who say good things. I guess it is like anything though in that some will love it and some will hate it.
Cayuga1210
New member
Sergio Garcia Putterball. I keep mine next to my bed for home defense.
dietDrThunder
New member
This is a solid list of marketing budget tiers at least. I know one thing...if people paid attention to how good the clubs are v. how much they cost, Wilson would be at the top of that list, not at the bottom.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Jeanthemachine
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Not new but the Power Pod had to be the Edsel of golf clubs.
It's really hard to say which company belongs in which 'tier' IMO. Is it strictly sales? Marketing? Tour Presence? Build Quality?
If you go to a local course around here on a Saturday you'd be hard pressed to find anything that isn't a Titleist, Taylormade, or Ping in any golfers bag - I guess that does say something.
If you go to a local course around here on a Saturday you'd be hard pressed to find anything that isn't a Titleist, Taylormade, or Ping in any golfers bag - I guess that does say something.
We need to go play some golf then, Im still playing a set of Hogan forged clubs and loving them.
The biggest problem that I have heard about the TM forged clubs is the same thing that I thought, they are long heads. The face is shorter bladeish, but the length is way longer looking and feeling. Like clown shoes. My buddys said the same thing one plays mizuno and the other plays old pings. I thought it was just me till they said something when we were at a demo.
manlai
New member
I see things like market share and sales being used kinda interchangeably when it comes to not catching on and I think it might be a little unfair. For example, it's hard to argue that TM MCs and probably their ATVs have been disappointing in sales and market share. They are a big OEM and need a certain share and sales number to make the line worthwhile and they clearly didn't hit it with those offerings. On the other hand, mizzie jpx's are kinda small potatoes so despite the jpx line selling well (as a revenue source), they aren't really gaining market share. I wouldn't necessarily tag them as not having caught on. They move product and are profitable on the line, good enough.
I hope TM handles Adams well too. I hope that it means that more of Adams' lines (especially outside of just hybrids) get into more fitters, as that is really the trendy movement currently. "Get fit here, expert fitting there, etc." I have asked to hit Adams stuff at fitters and some simply didn't have demo heads available to fit with their shafts. Honestly, I have always loved TM metalwoods, but their iron selection has always had a bit of an identity crisis to me. I could see Adams slotting in really nicely there. I wonder how their respective hybrids will coexist. I do like hitting them both. I think Adams just isn't that big of a company to begin with more than that they're disappointing.
My vote for club not catching on - The F(ph)rankenwood! A 2 wood never caught on and tt's not going to catch on now. I'd say Mizzie metalwoods also. Even their staff guys use other brands. Their wedges don't seem to sell well either.
I concur with that list. Certainly, most on the list make exceptional clubs so it's definitely not a comment on quality. There's little doubt that TM, Cally, Titleist, and Ping are big OEMs. Golf is a huge focus for them all and they all have significant presence in marketing and on tour. They are all big in overhead and need to move large amount of product to be profitable. I would say Nike is huge as well. Nike is big in golf like Microsoft is in areas other than Windows. They just have so much money and influence that they can buy their immediate presence in the market place. There's little doubt they spend as much as any OEM on golf - I might even speculate significantly more than anyone. It just might not seem as much seeing as they spend a lot on everything they do.
Cobra looks like it's starting to step up their presence. I still don't see them as much at independent fitters but they're certainly marketing more and gaining traction.
Bridgestone and Mizuno are obviously big companies but they have very boutique-like presence in golf. Mizuno has a noticeable presence in a few sports so it at least seems like a concerted business strategy. I'm guessing their lack of sales success in anything other than irons has limited them. Bridgestone golf is very strange to me. They do good work in golf but it's just so random and different from the rest of their company. They also make good clubs but you wouldn't know that from their marketing. How Wilson conducts business is a bit odd too. They are a pretty good sized company and they cover a ton of sports with strong internal brands as well as acquired quality names (big name in tennis, own DeMarini in baseball/softball, presence in golf, makes at least something in almost every conceivable sport). They have been around FOREVER but their focus is a puzzling. They've been making golf clubs forever but it's never quite a marketing focus. You see their stuff at big box stores but hardly any at independent fitters.
I hope TM handles Adams well too. I hope that it means that more of Adams' lines (especially outside of just hybrids) get into more fitters, as that is really the trendy movement currently. "Get fit here, expert fitting there, etc." I have asked to hit Adams stuff at fitters and some simply didn't have demo heads available to fit with their shafts. Honestly, I have always loved TM metalwoods, but their iron selection has always had a bit of an identity crisis to me. I could see Adams slotting in really nicely there. I wonder how their respective hybrids will coexist. I do like hitting them both. I think Adams just isn't that big of a company to begin with more than that they're disappointing.
My vote for club not catching on - The F(ph)rankenwood! A 2 wood never caught on and tt's not going to catch on now. I'd say Mizzie metalwoods also. Even their staff guys use other brands. Their wedges don't seem to sell well either.
I concur with that list. Certainly, most on the list make exceptional clubs so it's definitely not a comment on quality. There's little doubt that TM, Cally, Titleist, and Ping are big OEMs. Golf is a huge focus for them all and they all have significant presence in marketing and on tour. They are all big in overhead and need to move large amount of product to be profitable. I would say Nike is huge as well. Nike is big in golf like Microsoft is in areas other than Windows. They just have so much money and influence that they can buy their immediate presence in the market place. There's little doubt they spend as much as any OEM on golf - I might even speculate significantly more than anyone. It just might not seem as much seeing as they spend a lot on everything they do.
Cobra looks like it's starting to step up their presence. I still don't see them as much at independent fitters but they're certainly marketing more and gaining traction.
Bridgestone and Mizuno are obviously big companies but they have very boutique-like presence in golf. Mizuno has a noticeable presence in a few sports so it at least seems like a concerted business strategy. I'm guessing their lack of sales success in anything other than irons has limited them. Bridgestone golf is very strange to me. They do good work in golf but it's just so random and different from the rest of their company. They also make good clubs but you wouldn't know that from their marketing. How Wilson conducts business is a bit odd too. They are a pretty good sized company and they cover a ton of sports with strong internal brands as well as acquired quality names (big name in tennis, own DeMarini in baseball/softball, presence in golf, makes at least something in almost every conceivable sport). They have been around FOREVER but their focus is a puzzling. They've been making golf clubs forever but it's never quite a marketing focus. You see their stuff at big box stores but hardly any at independent fitters.
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erock9174
Well-known member
Odyssey Backstrykes
Never seen anyone own one and they always pop up on the internet sites for like $50-60 new
Never seen anyone own one and they always pop up on the internet sites for like $50-60 new
ryebread
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FNG: I have no doubt that old Hogans are great clubs. My response though is more related to the claim that they might be in that Tier based on popularity. I have not in the last two years seen anyone playing newish Hogan club like the CFT or AHS.
If we're talking popularity, I look at it like this:
Tier 1:
TM/Adams
Tier 2:
Callaway
Nike
Ping
Tier 3:
Cleveland
Cobra
Tier 4:
Boutiques like Mizuno for irons, or Tour Edge for Fairways
Wilson Staff
Bridgestone
Tier 5:
Component guys like Wishon or Maltby (great in quality, but all custom order stuff)
Box store house brands
Other
Japanese imports (great in quality, but no market presence here at all)
nicedivot
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I have to mostly agree with this list.
However in my opinion there are 2 types of this.
1. Major brand based on name known to people (due to marketing budget)
2. Major brand based on how many non professional players play with
Nike clubs in germany. All of them.
Whatever golf store i ask, they tell me they're not stocking nike clubs because they do not sell at all.
Whatever golf store i ask, they tell me they're not stocking nike clubs because they do not sell at all.
tdinbr
Water hazards are tough!
I love my BackStryke 2 ball model!! Great feel to me from the moment I picked it up. There's a few others here on THP that game the BackStryke models as well.
FlyitWithFury
New member
This is probably outside what your looking for, but I thought Goldwin Drivers were excellent when they came out. Had a few of my best driving rounds ever with one.