So im a highish handicapper that played blades for the first time today.

[Ajcoop20]

Validating my opinion? Not at all. Hearing something from a person that created some of the greatest irons ever (both blades and perimeter weighted clubs) is not something that happens every day especially when discussing a topic directly related to a conversation.

Again, I have no issue with anybody playing anything they want. However the part I struggle in a general sense is the "equation" that says one gets better with something, and while it CAN be true, it would only be black and white if feedback was not given on perimeter weighted clubs. Since one can assess their miss with all sorts of clubs, it is therefore not a black and white argument that blades will make someone better because they are penal when they miss.

Feedback is about a ball missing a balance point. That is it. Balance points are the same size virtually in every club out there. Larger irons might have a way of adding more mass to the exterior of a club head, but they do not make a balance point larger. A perceived sweet spot maybe, but not a balance point.

Im glad they are working for you, I truly am. I just want to make sure that everybody reading this has the actual science behind the clubs to go along with the opinions on both sides.

If you prefer the flipside, as I said, I think people should play anything they want that makes them happy.

I tried to like this post but couldnt ? Anyway. I agree with you on balence point vs sweet spot. I think we just have differnt ways of approaching the mental aspect. FOR ME The "less forgiving" club creates more focus and forces me to make each swing as good as I possibly can. Some people can not and will not take this approach because it would make the game miserable for them, for me its how I improve.

 

[Ajcoop20]

Now I am just confused...I give up dude, have at it.

Its not a confusing question. By your own definition a perimeter weight iron is longer on miss hits. In my experience i agree with you on this. Also from my experience and many others as well, as miss hit with a blade/mb/players iron will be straighter, than with a SGI or GI iron.

 

[SkiBumGolfer]

why are you so concerned over distance loss? Id like an answer to that question, because i believe there is WAY to much emphasis on distance now a days, when accuracy should be considerd much much more important. Kind of like the 70 yr old group that playes tues and wed at my club, they play the whites, and not one of them hits driver over 225, but they all play to legit 5-8 HC because they're accurate. ooh they all play old school blades to ;-)

We're concerned over distance loss on mishits not because we want to hit it super far, but because we want to have CONSISTENT distance. The key to hitting greens is knowing your distances and being able to play consistently to those distances with the club you choose - playing a perimeter weighted club will keep your mishits closer to that distance, and therefore you will hit more greens or be closer to the green more often.

 

[Ajcoop20]

We're concerned over distance loss on mishits not because we want to hit it super far, but because we want to have CONSISTENT distance. The key to hitting greens is knowing your distances and being able to play consistently to those distances with the club you choose - playing a perimeter weighted club will keep your mishits closer to that distance, and therefore you will hit more greens or be closer to the green more often.

Yes, but a miss hit shovel is not as accurate as a miss hit players iron, I would rather be 20 yards short and straight, than right lenght and 10 yards right or left of the green. Greens are ment to be approached from the front, not from the sides.

 

[JB]

Yes, but a miss hit shovel is not as accurate as a miss hit players iron, I would rather be 20 yards short and straight, than right lenght and 10 yards right or left of the green. Greens are ment to be approached from the front, not from the sides.

I believe your technicalities are not all that accurate in this case.
Check out what makes a ball go straight and what makes it miss its target.

 

[SkiBumGolfer]

Yes, but a miss hit shovel is not as accurate as a miss hit players iron, I would rather be 20 yards short and straight, than right lenght and 10 yards right or left of the green. Greens are ment to be approached from the front, not from the sides.

You only asked why we are concerned with distance loss, and that is why.

I think this is different for different people, but I know that I can miss just as much offline with a GI iron as a players iron if I put a poor swing on it. You are right in that when you lose a lot of distance with a bad push or pull (i.e. blade), you are closer to center than if you had more similar distance with the same push or pull, but when you hit a straight shot very near to flush and just miss a bit high or low on the face, you want to have a chance at getting to the green. For me, a blade gives me much less chance to do that, so I take some perimeter weighting.

 

[Ajcoop20]

Terry Koehler would agree with me. he knows a little bit bout building clubs as well. We both have obviously biased opinions skewed to our own ways of thinking. Players irons are more efficient, as well as have better dispersion numbers.

 

[TRyan]

Terry Koehler would agree with me. he knows a little bit bout building clubs as well. We both have obviously biased opinions skewed to our own ways of thinking. Players irons are more efficient, as well as have better dispersion numbers.

More efficient?

 

[Ajcoop20]

You only asked why we are concerned with distance loss, and that is why.

I think this is different for different people, but I know that I can miss just as much offline with a GI iron as a players iron if I put a poor swing on it. You are right in that when you lose a lot of distance with a bad push or pull (i.e. blade), you are closer to center than if you had more similar distance with the same push or pull, but when you hit a straight shot very near to flush and just miss a bit high or low on the face, you want to have a chance at getting to the green. For me, a blade gives me much less chance to do that, so I take some perimeter weighting.

See thats an answer i can get inline with. Personally i dont see major distance changes with slightly high or light low, maybe 4-6 yards, in some cases that can really hurt, but in most cases it doesnt for my game.

 

[JB]

Terry Koehler would agree with me. he knows a little bit bout building clubs as well. We both have obviously biased opinions skewed to our own ways of thinking. Players irons are more efficient, as well as have better dispersion numbers.

As I said before, I will just bow out of it.

 

[Ajcoop20]

This is the writings of Scor golf CEO terry Koehler and his thoughts

Blade Irons: Are They More Efficient Than Cavity Backs ?
It’s been almost a year since I first wrote about the performance of blade irons versus cavity backs, and those are still the most commented on posts I’ve ever done – they pull reader feedback even today. So, I thought I would dive into that subject a little deeper.

I was having a conversation about this with a golfer last week, and they asked me “why ?”

“ Terry, why and how can you say that a more muscle-back design produces better results than a cavity back design, when the entire industry has spent millions and millions of dollars developing these high-tech irons ? ”

My answer started out simple – “ Because it’s true. ”

Compare hitting a golf ball with driving a nail. If I started three large framing nails into a board, and gave you first a framing hammer, then a small sledge hammer, then a 12” cast iron fry pan, which would drive its respective nail with the least amount of blows ?

The sledge, right ?

Followed by the framing hammer, and trailing poorly would be the frying pan. Even though the frying pan may weigh as much or more than the hammers, it does not transfer force nearly as efficiently, because all of its mass is around the perimeter.

By the same measure, a more compact iron head, with the mass more centered, will be a more efficient golf ball striking tool than an oversize head with most of the mass spread as far away from the impact point as possible.

I told you, and I’ll tell you again. If you want to really learn something, borrow the 8-9- and PW from one of your friends or pros who plays a modern blade.

Even if the shafts are too stiff, and they don’t fit you, you’ll quickly see how much more accurate and consistent those short irons are than the perimeter-weighted clubs you currently play.

It’s not just me saying so – read the nearly 100 comments on the posts I wrote last spring !

 

[Ajcoop20]

As I said before, I will just bow out of it.

Fair enough.

 

[SkiBumGolfer]

See thats an answer i can get inline with. Personally i dont see major distance changes with slightly high or light low, maybe 4-6 yards, in some cases that can really hurt, but in most cases it doesnt for my game.

All the power in the world to ya then, man. If you don't notice much distance/trajectory change on high and low on the fact shots, you must be hitting it pretty nicely in general. And that is a great place to be at your handicap level - it means fixing your short game will do wonders.

 

[JB]

To quote the great movie, just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

I think you need to reread Terry's article. He is a great friend and a person I enjoy chatting with all the time.

How about the idea if you miss the nail by an inch with the hammer. Then how about if you miss the nail by an inch with the frying pan. Which one goes in straighter.

While I dont think this has anything to do with golf, Terry makes a high quality blade type of golf club.

 

[JB]

Let me see if I can sum it up better. Your theory of missing goes straighter with a muscle back goes exactly against what Terry is posting. He is discussing how mass in the muscle iron behind the ball (the hammer) will give you what you want. Now miss with that iron and that mass goes away. Now the mass on a perimeter weighted iron is moved to the outside (some of it) (more like added). This gives you more mass behind the ball on off center hits. The same argument Terry is making on center hits with the muscle back is being made for the mass behind the ball on off center hits with perimeter weighting. It cant be both ways (outside of a large thick club head) where mass will be behind the balance point and behind the exterior.

Hitting a ball with less mass behind it, and missing will not produce a straighter ball. If that were true, the argument FOR the muscle back iron would be completely false.

 

[golf4life]

Yes, but a miss hit shovel is not as accurate as a miss hit players iron, I would rather be 20 yards short and straight, than right lenght and 10 yards right or left of the green. Greens are ment to be approached from the front, not from the sides.

Those are some pretty magical blades to miss straighter on misses to the left or right of center contact on the face.

 

[Ajcoop20]

Maybe you could get him to clarify his meaning then? If you miss the nail by an inch with the hammer you swing again, cause you hit the board beneath it. Hit off center with a frying pan and the results will be equally as poor, one forces you to use hand eye coordination more so than the other, it also rewards you by being more efficient. I think that may be what your friend terry was getting at/?

 

[Ajcoop20]

Those are some pretty magical blades to miss straighter on misses to the left or right of center contact on the face.

Is the ball closer to the center of the face on a toe shot with a smaller head players iron, or a SGI head....

 

[golf4life]

This is the writings of Scor golf CEO terry Koehler and his thoughts

Blade Irons: Are They More Efficient Than Cavity Backs ?
It’s been almost a year since I first wrote about the performance of blade irons versus cavity backs, and those are still the most commented on posts I’ve ever done – they pull reader feedback even today. So, I thought I would dive into that subject a little deeper.

I was having a conversation about this with a golfer last week, and they asked me “why ?”

“ Terry, why and how can you say that a more muscle-back design produces better results than a cavity back design, when the entire industry has spent millions and millions of dollars developing these high-tech irons ? ”

My answer started out simple – “ Because it’s true. ”

Compare hitting a golf ball with driving a nail. If I started three large framing nails into a board, and gave you first a framing hammer, then a small sledge hammer, then a 12” cast iron fry pan, which would drive its respective nail with the least amount of blows ?

The sledge, right ?

Followed by the framing hammer, and trailing poorly would be the frying pan. Even though the frying pan may weigh as much or more than the hammers, it does not transfer force nearly as efficiently, because all of its mass is around the perimeter.

By the same measure, a more compact iron head, with the mass more centered, will be a more efficient golf ball striking tool than an oversize head with most of the mass spread as far away from the impact point as possible.

I told you, and I’ll tell you again. If you want to really learn something, borrow the 8-9- and PW from one of your friends or pros who plays a modern blade.

Even if the shafts are too stiff, and they don’t fit you, you’ll quickly see how much more accurate and consistent those short irons are than the perimeter-weighted clubs you currently play.

It’s not just me saying so – read the nearly 100 comments on the posts I wrote last spring !

But if you miss hitting the nail by half inch with the hammer, your thumb will be blue for a month. Whereas the frying pan will still hit the nail nearly as efficiently as center contact. Blades are not as forgiving. They certainly demand a more pure strike to get the most out of the shot and certainly perform well on center face contact and generally also lower ball flight. But they are not more forgiving laterally or length wise.

 

[JB]

Is the ball closer to the center of the face on a toe shot with a smaller head players iron, or a SGI head....

That does not equate to straighter. Mass behind the ball can assist in keeping it straight. Being close to the balance point of a head is only relative to keeping the ball on line based on where there is mass.

 

[Wake]

Is the ball closer to the center of the face on a toe shot with a smaller head players iron, or a SGI head....

IF you miss both shots by the same margin, then they are closer to the center of an sgi head.

 

[golf4life]

Is the ball closer to the center of the face on a toe shot with a smaller head players iron, or a SGI head....

Miss center by 1/2 inch with a SGI club and ball flight will be nearly unchanged. Miss center by 1/2 inch with a blade towards the toe and you'll lose significant yards and ball will go significantly sideways. Playing blades doesn't magically make your misses smaller.

 

[Ajcoop20]

Listen, i think you guys are mistaken what im saying, im not saying that blades are the end all be all. Im not saying that SGI or GI suck, I could very well go back to them some time in the future, Im saying there are a LOT of misconceptions floating around here from people who dont play them because of what they have heard. To read someone peoples postings, you might as well not even pick a MB or blade up because theres no way a mere mortal could ever hit one, and that is simply un true. You have to be much more focused and Ideally have a pretty decent swing. I think there are a lot of guys 20 and under than could play blades and benefit from knowing that if they dont focus and hit them well they will be punished. I fully believe blades will make you a better player in the aspect that they will make you make a good swing, or you will hit a poor shot, you cant cheat with them.

 

[Ajcoop20]

Miss center by 1/2 inch with a SGI club and ball flight will be nearly unchanged. Miss center by 1/2 inch with a blade towards the toe and you'll lose significant yards and ball will go significantly sideways. Playing blades doesn't magically make your misses smaller.

Have you ever heard the adage aim small miss small? My position if your playing with a small head your less likely to swing it and miss it by that 1/2 inch as you are playing with a SGI

 

[JB]

Yes, but a miss hit shovel is not as accurate as a miss hit players iron, I would rather be 20 yards short and straight, than right lenght and 10 yards right or left of the green. Greens are ment to be approached from the front, not from the sides.

Listen, i think you guys are mistaken what im saying, im not saying that blades are the end all be all. Im not saying that SGI or GI suck, I could very well go back to them some time in the future, Im saying there are a LOT of misconceptions floating around here from people who dont play them because of what they have heard. To read someone peoples postings, you might as well not even pick a MB or blade up because theres no way a mere mortal could ever hit one, and that is simply un true. You have to be much more focused and Ideally have a pretty decent swing. I think there are a lot of guys 20 and under than could play blades and benefit from knowing that if they dont focus and hit them well they will be punished. I fully believe blades will make you a better player in the aspect that they will make you make a good swing, or you will hit a poor shot, you cant cheat with them.

I dont disagree with you that misconceptions exist about a lot of things in the world of golf equipment. I do not however agree with your post (quoted above) as it is just not accurate based solely on science (and your own argument via Terry). A smaller club head COULD make one a better ball striker. So could a lot of things, but for this example, lets say it will help you. It is not however more forgiving on off center strikes.

As I have said all along, I think its great you found something that works for you and I hope it helps you get where you want to go in this game. In the end, that is all that matters.