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They aren't going to turn gun owners away, but made it known they aren't wanted. What's a sure way to get legal gun owners show up somewhere?

Maybe Starbucks will eventually turn into a haven for gun owners devoid of sniveling crybabies.
 
Just from reading around I fully understand where Starbucks is coming from. They just want to end the rallies, and Jack wagon people who open carry just to get a rise out of people, (like some of them who are famous on youtube)

They don't want to have their shops become a battleground for a political issue.

Unfortunately this story is casting a bad light on gun owners who've overreacted to something that really hasn't changed anything.
 
As someone who does not open carry at all, ever, under any circumstances aside from putting my gun in a holster once I'm already at the range, what do you guys regard as the "upside" of open-carrying a gun that could otherwise be concealed? Bear in mind, I live in Arizona, where neither open nor concealed carry actually requires a permit, though I have my CCP. Here's my point about Starbucks...untuck your shirt over your OWB holster, get your coffee, and leave.

Personally, open-carry is something I find a) unnecessarily provocative, and; b) counter-productive to the primary purpose of carrying a gun, that is personal defense. While certainly a generation of general hippie-dom has made people more uncomfortable around guns than ever before, I imagine it's been at least 80 years since civilians openly carrying arms was a commonplace occurrence. So if making people uncomfortable even while you practice picture perfect muzzle awareness and firearms safety (which rarely happens in my experience) is your goal, then open carry away. But for the second point, I think that for every chance that open carry would deter crime (or at least move it on down the road), there's an equal chance that the open carrier would become a bullet magnet, particularly if he is by himself (and no, if I think individually open-carrying is foolish, I'm not going to join a club and do it was a group.) I want to keep knowledge of my firearm as asymmetrical as possible.

Bear in mind, this little rant doesn't really apply to firearms that could not be concealed, though if I'm, say, taking an AR-15 to the range I would still lock it in the trunk rather than carry it loaded into a coffeeshop, and I've got more time open-carrying an M16 than 99.5% of the country.
 
i have no idea where the hatred or disdain for open carry comes from except when it comes to anti gunners... but they hate concealed just as much... they just cant see it
there are many arguments for and against open or concealed carry
my take on open carry is... no criminal in their right minds open carry and if they do then they usually are not of their right mind
if i see a guy in walmart with a gun on his side in a holster i am not afraid of him... where as if i see a thug wearing 'gangsta' clothes not knowing what kinda weapon he has on him im a lil more leary
now there are clear advantages to both concealed and open
concealed has the element of surprise but its pretty much reactionary... whereas open can be a deterrent before anything happens
now having said all this... there are idiots on all sides of the argument that make things worse on everyone involved
anti gunners that wanna disarm everyone and wanna make self defense illegal
extremists pro gunners that carry 50cal ma deuces down the street for a reaction
my take on all this is... the pot keeps getting stirred unnecessarily by the media and all parties involved
place blame where it needs to be... on the criminals... leave law abiding citizens alone
 
Sad day, the apex kits haven't come in yet, but the store owner told me he would save one for me once they came in
 
Saying your for guns but against open carry, is like saying you're for free speech as long as you agree with what's being said.
 
Greg Kulbick said:
Saying your for guns but against open carry, is like saying you're for free speech as long as you agree with what's being said.
Click to expand...

I open carry everywhere I can, just proud of my
Second amendment rights lol
 
Greg Kulbick said:
Saying your for guns but against open carry, is like saying you're for free speech as long as you agree with what's being said.
Click to expand...

For the record, I'm not against open carry from a legal or constitutional standpoint. If it's legal in your area, then that's certainly your right. Starbucks has the right to ask you not to carry on their premises. Heck, a sign outside my parents' Buffalo Wild Wings says it reserves the right to refuse service for someone carrying or whom they believe to be carrying. That's their right as owners of property, and I respect those rights, too.

I'm saying, speaking as a Soldier who's spent more than 3 years downrange and a lot of that doing an active combat mission, I've spent a lot of time with my hands on a weapon, openly. Not slung across my back or over my shoulder. I mean with two hands on it, thumb on the safety selector, finger just outside the trigger well. And my goal when I'm carrying that weapon is to appear as menacing and threatening as possible. I'm acutely aware that I projected that image of a threatening American Soldier on the just and the unjust alike. I'm aware that the M4/M16/AR-15 is a weapon designed for military use. My lack of threat around that weapon platform is the result of familiarity with it. I'm aware that normal, non-military Americans do not have anything close to that level of familiarity with the AR-15 platform. To them it's a weapon of war, and threatening, as well it should be. I personally see no upside to bringing that militancy to America.

So like I said, I respect the rights of those who open carry. I respect the rights of people to stand in a town square and yell, "PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!" I also think those rights are much closer to one another than others. Open carry of firearms, in this day and age, is where narcissism runs into the 2nd Amendment, IMO. You're hoping you get to say, "I'm exercising my Second Amendment rights!"
 
this feeds into the 'fear every gun you see' mentality
but 99% of criminals conceal
'hey there can be 10 thugs armed for a gang war in the mall but as long as i cant see it im safe'
i agree open carrying an AR15 at the mall is just idiotic but a holstered pistol shouldnt even bat an eye
i think since extremists have pushed the debate beyond the edge of the envelope on both sides... common sense has gone out the window
its become a circus
 
Paladin said:
Open carry of firearms, in this day and age, is where narcissism runs into the 2nd Amendment, IMO. You're hoping you get to say, "I'm exercising my Second Amendment rights!"
Click to expand...

That is your opinion, that you paint with a very wide brush, and you are welcome to it. I see open carry as having one less obstacle(cover garment) I have to contend with should I need to access my firearm for purposes of self defense.
 
I dont open carry because I dont want the attention that comes along with it. Whether that attention is good or bad.

I would venture to guess that most open carry gun owners are not narcissists, unfortunately for all of us it seems that the ones that are seem to be the loudest and garner the most attention (to their delight).

This is just speculation, but didnt most states start with open carry allowed and concealed carry illegal? Heck, isnt it Montana that allows a 14 year old to open carry? Seems to me that the initial preference in this Country (for government as well as citizens) was open carry.

I can see where open carry can make people uncomfortable. I think both sides are at fault for this. Society sees more of Columbine and less of the Texas University Tower shooting. LEO's are all over Youtube violating the rights of open carry citizens. You have that idiot we had in Nashville a while back baiting officials into containing him while he open carried a handgun that he knew looked like a rifle to 99% of citizens and officers thru a park. The news reports an "assault rifle" is used to mow down 12 people in DC and apparently there was never an AR involved?? And then there is Starbucks...

Bottom line, it is a circus like Russ said and IMO both sides are just as much at fault.
 
Paladin said:
As someone who does not open carry at all, ever, under any circumstances aside from putting my gun in a holster once I'm already at the range, what do you guys regard as the "upside" of open-carrying a gun that could otherwise be concealed? Bear in mind, I live in Arizona, where neither open nor concealed carry actually requires a permit, though I have my CCP. Here's my point about Starbucks...untuck your shirt over your OWB holster, get your coffee, and leave.

Personally, open-carry is something I find a) unnecessarily provocative, and; b) counter-productive to the primary purpose of carrying a gun, that is personal defense. While certainly a generation of general hippie-dom has made people more uncomfortable around guns than ever before, I imagine it's been at least 80 years since civilians openly carrying arms was a commonplace occurrence. So if making people uncomfortable even while you practice picture perfect muzzle awareness and firearms safety (which rarely happens in my experience) is your goal, then open carry away. But for the second point, I think that for every chance that open carry would deter crime (or at least move it on down the road), there's an equal chance that the open carrier would become a bullet magnet, particularly if he is by himself (and no, if I think individually open-carrying is foolish, I'm not going to join a club and do it was a group.) I want to keep knowledge of my firearm as asymmetrical as possible.

Bear in mind, this little rant doesn't really apply to firearms that could not be concealed, though if I'm, say, taking an AR-15 to the range I would still lock it in the trunk rather than carry it loaded into a coffeeshop, and I've got more time open-carrying an M16 than 99.5% of the country.
Click to expand...

Paladin said:
For the record, I'm not against open carry from a legal or constitutional standpoint. If it's legal in your area, then that's certainly your right. Starbucks has the right to ask you not to carry on their premises. Heck, a sign outside my parents' Buffalo Wild Wings says it reserves the right to refuse service for someone carrying or whom they believe to be carrying. That's their right as owners of property, and I respect those rights, too.

I'm saying, speaking as a Soldier who's spent more than 3 years downrange and a lot of that doing an active combat mission, I've spent a lot of time with my hands on a weapon, openly. Not slung across my back or over my shoulder. I mean with two hands on it, thumb on the safety selector, finger just outside the trigger well. And my goal when I'm carrying that weapon is to appear as menacing and threatening as possible. I'm acutely aware that I projected that image of a threatening American Soldier on the just and the unjust alike. I'm aware that the M4/M16/AR-15 is a weapon designed for military use. My lack of threat around that weapon platform is the result of familiarity with it. I'm aware that normal, non-military Americans do not have anything close to that level of familiarity with the AR-15 platform. To them it's a weapon of war, and threatening, as well it should be. I personally see no upside to bringing that militancy to America.

So like I said, I respect the rights of those who open carry. I respect the rights of people to stand in a town square and yell, "PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!" I also think those rights are much closer to one another than others. Open carry of firearms, in this day and age, is where narcissism runs into the 2nd Amendment, IMO. You're hoping you get to say, "I'm exercising my Second Amendment rights!"
Click to expand...

Greg Kulbick said:
That is your opinion, that you paint with a very wide brush, and you are welcome to it. I see open carry as having one less obstacle(cover garment) I have to contend with should I need to access my firearm for purposes of self defense.
Click to expand...

sparksjr said:
I dont open carry because I dont want the attention that comes along with it. Whether that attention is good or bad.

I would venture to guess that most open carry gun owners are not narcissists, unfortunately for all of us it seems that the ones that are seem to be the loudest and garner the most attention (to their delight).

This is just speculation, but didnt most states start with open carry allowed and concealed carry illegal? Heck, isnt it Montana that allows a 14 year old to open carry? Seems to me that the initial preference in this Country (for government as well as citizens) was open carry.

I can see where open carry can make people uncomfortable. I think both sides are at fault for this. Society sees more of Columbine and less of the Texas University Tower shooting. LEO's are all over Youtube violating the rights of open carry citizens. You have that idiot we had in Nashville a while back baiting officials into containing him while he open carried a handgun that he knew looked like a rifle to 99% of citizens and officers thru a park. The news reports an "assault rifle" is used to mow down 12 people in DC and apparently there was never an AR involved?? And then there is Starbucks...

Bottom line, it is a circus like Russ said and IMO both sides are just as much at fault.
Click to expand...


Fact is most of us here in this tread share a similarity , we respect the rights of others, and feel strongly about our own rights.

Open carry vs concealed carry is a age old debate and will go on for ages more, and neither side is right or wrong, and we should take solace in the fact we live in a country that for the most part we are able have this debate to begin with.
 
You can still open carry in Starbucks, they have not changed anything really, you should be treated as a normal customer, at least by the staff, but if there is a disturbance you will probably be the first to be asked to leave.

The reason why the CEO has come out (note I have not received communication from him yet, I'm trying but I don't expect anything, so this is just my assumption based on a few things) is because people where going beyond open carry, there were instances of persons removing their firearms and laying them on tables, which at that point it would no longer be considered open carry but brandishing. As well as people coming in with AR-15s and AKs which while legal to do, is way outside the norm and Understandably startles the misinformed public.

Starbucks, gave gun owners an inch, and some tried to take a mile, Starbucks is not trying to take sides, and is simply trying to sell their product, so they took steps to prevent their locations from becoming a political background.
 
sparksjr said:
This is just speculation, but didnt most states start with open carry allowed and concealed carry illegal? Heck, isnt it Montana that allows a 14 year old to open carry? Seems to me that the initial preference in this Country (for government as well as citizens) was open carry.
Click to expand...
In 1987 when Florida first allowed concealed carry, the Florida Sheriff's Assoc. took the position that concealed carry would prevent them from knowing who had guns and they would rather people wore them openly. Fast forward to 2011 when people were trying to pass an open carry bill, where the Florida Sheriff's Association took the position that concealed carry was working fine and people openly carrying legally owned firearms would create panic among the public.
 
Greg Kulbick said:
In 1987 when Florida first allowed concealed carry, the Florida Sheriff's Assoc. took the position that concealed carry would prevent them from knowing who had guns and they would rather people wore them openly. Fast forward to 2011 when people were trying to pass an open carry bill, where the Florida Sheriff's Association took the position that concealed carry was working fine and people openly carrying legally owned firearms would create panic among the public.
Click to expand...

Circus.
 
Indeed.
 
When I carry I generally prefer to carry on my hip. Most of the time I also wear a sweatshirt to cover the gun. I don't like the attention. Last weekend, a buddy and I stopped at a c-store before going out varmint hunting. A bus of tourists had stopped there too. (germans maybe??) My buddies gun was wasn't covered and mine was. You should have seen the look on there faces when he walked by. Wherever they were from, they weren't used to guns in the open. One of the guys actually stopped him and wanted a picture. We took a couple of the guys to our pickup and showed him our small arsenal. The couldn't believe we had 3 ARs and 6 other rifles in the pickup. They wanted to hold the ARs and get pictures with them. I said no as politely as I could.
 
its sad that ppl who are gun rights activists take 2 steps forward and 5 steps back due to numbskulls going way overboard
it actually hurts the cause when you over celebrate a victory by carrying your grenade launcher to get a cappachino
like some dummy that celebrates his freedoms by shooting a bunch of rounds in the air old west style yeeehaww
ppl need to see gun owners as "normal" just like them. not a bunch of wannabe rambos

ohhh and removing your gun from your holster inside of a crowded starbucks... that guy does not need to own a gun because he is clueless about gun safety
 
Sold the XDS today to someone local...and yes, I made sure they knew about the recall.
 
TahoeDust said:
Sold the XDS today to someone local...and yes, I made sure they knew about the recall.
Click to expand...

That's good, no need for it now with the M&P(s) lol
 
I've said it before, I like guns and being South African I come from a place where they're needed for self defence almost more than anywhere on the planet.
That said I cannot and will never understand why Americans feel the need to own and use military style weapons to "protect" themselves. Now before anyone jumps down my throat I'm not looking for a fight. I simply can't understand it. I see programs and people own 5/10/20+ weapons and I'm talking AR-15's, semi auto AK's and even .50cal sniper rifles. WTF does anyone need these for? It's these same people that are always shocked when some kid loses the plot and goes on a killing spree using his parents guns. If it's simply as a toy or something to enjoy then by all means but most of the people that own these repeatedly go on about needing them for self defence. I don't buy it.
 
SaffaClint said:
I've said it before, I like guns and being South African I come from a place where they're needed for self defence almost more than anywhere on the planet.
That said I cannot and will never understand why Americans feel the need to own and use military style weapons to "protect" themselves. Now before anyone jumps down my throat I'm not looking for a fight. I simply can't understand it. I see programs and people own 5/10/20+ weapons and I'm talking AR-15's, semi auto AK's and even .50cal sniper rifles. WTF does anyone need these for? It's these same people that are always shocked when some kid loses the plot and goes on a killing spree using his parents guns. If it's simply as a toy or something to enjoy then by all means but most of the people that own these repeatedly go on about needing them for self defence. I don't buy it.
Click to expand...

'Murica

In all reality I think an AR for self defense is excessive, I use my handguns for that, a good defense hollow point will not cause over penetration.

My AR is for sporting, zombies, and because in light of the recent assault weapons ban, I snagged one when I could because of the shortage. Most of the time I shoot my M&P 40 though
 
Mr. Satchmo said:
That's good, no need for it now with the M&P(s) lol
Click to expand...

Haha. It belonged to my Dad. It was serving as a home defense gun for my parents. Both the recoil and stiffness of the slide was just too much for my mom. I do prefer my M&Ps though.
 
SaffaClint said:
Aww shucks, fanks Cleatus. :wink:
Click to expand...

In all reality I think an AR for self defense is excessive, I use my handguns for that, a good defense hollow point will not cause over penetration.

My AR is for sporting, zombies, and because in light of the recent assault weapons ban, I snagged one when I could because of the shortage. Most of the time I shoot my M&P 40 though
 
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