Martsy
New member
I think the rule book reads like the tax code, and both should be simplified, though not necessarily changed...if that makes sense.
Mark King's rant
I think the rule book reads like the tax code, and both should be simplified, though not necessarily changed...if that makes sense.
- Moderator
- #27
Not a freakin chance. There are so many old rules out there that should be removed, but "because we don't like how it looks" it's still in existence. Case in point: range finders in competition. Peter Dawson of the R&A doesn't like how it looks, so they and the USGA don't agree on it. Are you frickin kidding me?
Meaning its so big I could beat someone to death with it? Absolutely.
- Moderator
- #29
I think it's a tough read, but i think every rule has a logical reasoning around it. Golf is a complicated sport, but those rules are designed to promote fair play in competition, as you had mentioned a couple of posts ago.
Is it relevant whether I ground my club in a hazard? Of course. I'm testing the conditions and should be penalized. Do I need a clear indicator of where I should drop my ball? Of course.
Howzat
I'd Rather Be At The Hideaway
This is my view as well. I don't want to change the game we love. Just make it easier for more people to enjoy.
I agree that cost is the main barrier. The average household income for a golfer is $95,000 - almost twice the U.S. average. I don't know what the answer is - rounds take longer to play than they did 30 years ago and golf is now more expensive. I was able to play all summer at a good semi-private club for an $85 a year when I started in 1977. I mowed lawns to pay for my junior membership and played 5 days a week so it worked out to less than a dollar per round.
I also think the trend is for kids to specialize in 1 or 2 sports at a younger age. When I was growing up I played football, track, golf, basketball and hockey. I eventually gave up basketball and hockey for skiing, but I remember many of my classmates lettering in 3 or 4 sports. I have 3 kids doing sports at the high school, junior high, and grade school level and I don't see many kids playing 4 or more sports anymore. They are specializing in 2 or 3 by the time they are 12 or 13 and many that excel are just doing 1 or 2 sports in high school.
Golf also has much smaller teams than other sports which can be de-motivating for a young teenager that might have an interest in the game. I've seen some of my son's friends who are good golfers(10 handicap) with a lot of natural ability give up on the game because they didn't feel they had a chance of making the golf team. Sad to see them move on to another sport at age 14 but they are right - a typical high school or college varsity golf team has about 6 players while football might have 55+ players. Many schools have freshman, JV, and varsity teams for sports which allows a much larger participation than golf.
The good news is golf is still a popular sport with almost 10% of Americans playing the sport. Golf needs to do something to make the game more attractive. The snowsports industry grew dramatically with the advent of snowboarding in the 1980's which allowed it to attract a younger, less affluent demographic. Hopefully golf can do the same.
- Moderator
- #34
I still don't get this. I've got great examples of people playing golf and enjoying it a ton with zero rule knowledge.
Do people need to follow the rules to enjoy the game? If you establish a game with someone, and ask them throughout the round whether certain things are okay, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. "Hey, not sure what to do here, you cool if I do this?"
Martsy
New member
Personally part of me hopes golf doesn't pick up too much...I have a 4 year old daughter with a smoother swing than I could every dream, and I hear that woman's college scholarships are just sitting out there!
I kid...sort of :bulgy-eyes:
I kid...sort of :bulgy-eyes:
- Moderator
- #36
Happens all the time. My favorite are hitting with roots nearby. Is it legal to tell someone or take a free drop from when your ball is surrounded by roots? Nope. Do I want my playing partner or myself breaking a club or my wrist on a tree root? Not a chance. We're not playing in a tournament and I don't want anyone having to see a doctor after playing a round.
Howzat
I'd Rather Be At The Hideaway
Do people need to?...no. Do I think people would like to understand and be able to interpret the rules easily?...yes. This is not the only issue to break down the barriers for new golfers to enjoy the game but I think it is something that should be looked at.
- Moderator
- #38
We did that in December when we played our match together. It's an absolutely awesome example, not unlike if you are in a bunker during matchplay and your opponent is in a huge footprint, you chat about it and establish that for the rest of the round (including this scenario), lies like that can be raked and placed.
Even if the rules of the game were simplified, I don't see a majority of the people who currently are rule ignorant taking the time to read and adapt to the new rules. Casual golf is still golf regardless of the percentage of rules you play by.
bellairemi
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Rules is a more secondary consideration - I should have been more clear rather than just lumping them together. Put aside the cost etc. (our group provides clubs to several local courses to serve as free "rental sets) but think about how intimidating a golf course is to a novice. As I cited, which tee box do you use? Which club do you pull for what use? What's the difference between the fairway, rough and green? Do I pull the pin out? When? Knowing these things are essential to basic play in golf. I grew up with golf so had never looked at it from someone's eyes coming to it as an adult (or even teenager) for the first time.
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- #40
This really got me curious, and as it is, the R&A have done a very nice job simplifying the rules in a number of scenarios.
Certainly a very solid framework for a casual golfer to read while enjoying a nice coffee in the morning to grasp the game.
http://www.randa.org/en/Playing-Golf/Quick-Guide-to-the-Rules.aspx
Certainly a very solid framework for a casual golfer to read while enjoying a nice coffee in the morning to grasp the game.
http://www.randa.org/en/Playing-Golf/Quick-Guide-to-the-Rules.aspx
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- #41
Depends how they were simplified. Some are just unnecessary, and some just need tweaking. I know they'll never see eye to eye with the golfing population when it comes to a ball resting in an old divot, or removing stroke and distance from OB though. The first one would be lovely.
Another lovely would be the ball coming into an old footprint in a bunker. Tell me how someone's laziness is fair?
Another lovely would be the ball coming into an old footprint in a bunker. Tell me how someone's laziness is fair?
- Moderator
- #42
is soccer or football or baseball or hockey any easier to define?
What are all these lines?
Why is there a flag on each corner?
What happens when the ball going out of bounds?
Why is there an antenna behind the two sides of the field?
can I use my hands/feet?
I'm sorry, I just don't see it being that much harder for someone interested in the game to get started. Most courses have a starter who will define ideal tees, and most getting into the game would have derived that interest from something else (like watching on tv) and would know enough to pull the flag etc.
I with you on this one. I have an eight year old girl that loves the game(her older siblings do not) and I'm hoping she can keep her enthusiasm and play in high school and college. Is having 1 out of 3 kids love the game too much too ask for a longtime avid golfer dad like me?
bellairemi
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I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Here's the thing - a family can go to a park that has a soccer net, drop down a ball and have a good time. Can that same family show up a golf course walk out to the first tee and do the same? Before the first time I went out with our beginning adults, one of the long time leaders told me I would learn more than the beginners would. I laughed and thought how could that be? He was absolutely correct. All of the adults had wanted to try golf but could find a way in that was comfortable, especially because they did not know any other golfers. To see it through their eyes, I understood.
- Moderator
- #45
I've long been a proponent of making the game more fair in terms of dealing with playing conditions due to bad course maintenance or care. Placing or dropping after landing in a fairway divot... Raking and placing in a bunker... These are two things that absolutely should be changed...
But the nice thing about playing as an amateur or in a small money game, you can define that at any point in the round and establish a game rule. It's easy and as long as your opponent agrees, works well.
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- #46
To me, you just basically described the driving range of soccer. Can a family not go to the driving range and have the same level of enjoyment? Or a putting green?
Jjmorris
Will Post for Thanks
Easiest way to increase golfers IMO exactly what they are doing in Sioux Falls. New memberships coming out for 600 a year for a single for unlimited golf and fitness at 4 courses and 3 fitness centers (with more fitness centers being built).. A couple, 720 a year and a family is around a 1000 I believe. This is being done to push kids into golf and now a family can take their kids out and now feel like they are breaking the banks (especially considering if the husband or wife was already a member somewhere.. its now basically the same cost for the family.) I think it will be huge for the growth of the sport locally.
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- #48
As long as the rules are agreed upon at the beginning, it's no different than a course local rule right?
bellairemi
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But how does a non-golf family or person know the difference between a range and the course and which would be better to access the sport? If you get lucky enough to find and use a range first, how do you transition to a course? As an example, my wife was fascinated that there are putting greens where you can actually practice for free. Of course she didn't understand that you cannot just wander up at our local resort and use their putting greens in the same fashion. So many of these nuances that we golfers understand that non-golfers find confusing - and that pushes them away from the sport.
In this country, a lot more people are playing golf(30 million) than soccer(13 million), even though soccer is much easier, cheaper, and more accessible. Clearly this is partially a cultural thing - there are many more adults in the US playing in adult softball leagues than in adult soccer leagues. I have 3 kids playing soccer with my son playing 10 months of the year since he was 8, but I doubt any of them will play on a regular basis, if at all, once they hit age 19. Although only one of them plays golf regularly, all know how to hit a golf ball squarely at least most of the time. My guess is at least one of them will wind up being an avid golfer as an adult. Golfers at least tend to stay with the sport into adulthood and many of the avid golfers I know started playing in their 20's or 30's.
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