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Slow Play is my nemesis

dpgator33 said:
There is a solution to this problem, not one that I have in mind with specifics, but technology would have to be involved. Think ad-hoc wifi, RFID, incentives for quick play, hidden(or not) monitors on tee boxes and greens, a way for the course to better keep track of and manage without having to troll some guy on a cart all the time telling people to keep pace.

Private/elite courses may not have to do this sort of thing but I guarantee someone is out there developing something like this.

As relatively cheap as this sort of technology is becoming, it's only a matter of time.

Not exactly apples to apples, but I envision an evolution similar to how bowling alleys now keep score. It wasn't too long ago that bowlers had to write down their scores after every shot and add up between frames, etc.

Almost every course I play at has some guy scribbling down your cart number and taking down your name. Doesn't that seem a little antiquated?

Maybe I am way off, just thought I would share that thought on the subject.


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You know, at Misawa, the GPS golf carts have a timer to tell you your pace, and when you're running too long, someone will come out and tell you to move it along. Completely forgot about it, but I missed that.
 
(Mostly) good discussion.

I think more can be done to educate. Yes, it is discussed in golf media but there really isn't much in the way of teaching people how to play at appropriate pace. I encounter people all the time that don't know what Ready Golf means or who think they are playing at an appropriate pace if they are staying ahead of the group behind them. You can never do too much communication about expectations or how to do something (in this case play fast).

I have started seeing courses put index numbers or driver distances on score cards to help indicate proper tees. I think that's a great thing. The thread already has a ton of good ideas. We area smart group but we aren't that smart. Why aren't the courses doing this stuff alraedy? They need to be educated too - a better product for the masses means more revenue than lost business from a slow foursome.
 
jacob.komenda said:
You know, at Misawa, the GPS golf carts have a timer to tell you your pace, and when you're running too long, someone will come out and tell you to move it along. Completely forgot about it, but I missed that.
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Technology is already here. There are courses everywhere that either have or are going to be using gps timers to help pace of play.
I know that my course has them already, and we're never "behind" lol.

Problem is, the entire game is suffering as well. There's been a new breed of amateur golfers who just want to drink and care less to keep a score,
they wear sneakers and pivot away from the hole after picking they're balls outta the hole, and tear she jack outta sh!t right next to the cup!
They take carts into places that mess more sh!t up and are always on the look-out for some "experienced" golf balls. *sigh*
 
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The technology that is out there is sparse and incomplete. Obviously there aren't enough courses that have this type of thing and the ones that do have what? A person who has a title of "Marshall" to scoot you along. I am only saying there are better ways of doing it that haven't evolved yet.

I'm not a "slow play" basher. I don't like it when I come across it but I know that there isn't a way to curb it. Having the USGA or the Golf Channel morning show or a bunch of educated golfers on a forum spouting about it will not have an effect on it, that's my opinion.




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Dogman said:
The course I work at went to 10. I think the program actually throws a 9 minute one in once in a while, but pretty much 6 tee times an hour. They figure if you wait until the first group is at least putting before the next group trees off, they stay apart and it runs smoother. Works most days, but I've seen it get screwed up by the third group of the morning. They had a 7, 7:09, and 7:19. At 7:25, the :19 group calls the clubhouse from the tee box, and there's a problem. Dudes from the :09 group are still in the fairway, and the first group is long gone. I have to go take a look, and they are already looking for lost balls out on private property, and sitting there while one dude takes over 10 practice swings, then squirts on OB. They go look for it. I had to ask them to please keep up with the group in front of them, and they just said they couldn't. The other guys were too fast. We didn't have a "Marshall" show up until 8. These dudes should probably have gone bowling. :banghead:
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That is great if the course can afford to take the hit in revenue. If you go from 8 to 10 minute intervals, you are talking about dropping 1½ groups per hour. If the charge is as little as $40 per player, that's a $240 loss every hour during prime time. Figure a conservative estimate of only 4 hours of prime tee times for 3 days a week (Fri-Sat-Sun) that's $2880 per week of lost revenues (my home course fills those tee times 7 days a week in season at an average of about 8¾ minute intervals) - you can do the math). With many courses already hurting from the economy woes, that would be unbearable.
 
The only exclusive and Private Club I ever played at had a simple but effective system.

You receive an official looking printed punch card with your tee time on it. Just off the 9th green there is a booth with a Marshall and a machine where you have to get it punched again. If you are the first group that is off pace you are shown the door and not allowed to complete the back 9. Any subsequent groups are fine as long as they are 'in position' on the course (right behind the group in front of them - within reason).
This applies to all the members and their guests.
If a certain member and/or his guests cause slow play 3 times they are out of the club with no refund. This is in the contract they sign and they are given tons of warning after their 1st and 2nd infractions.
They are not afraid of losing members, as the wait list is longer than the member list, or so I'm told.

The average round there is 3.75 hours for a foursome.


On a more personal note I am a golfer that deals with slow play every round it seems as I am a Saturday hacker, so I don't really expect any different. I am so afraid of being slow that I have been accused of being 'rude' for suggesting that a player drop a new ball or hitting while he is away and currently in his 7th practice swing. I'd rather be a little rude than slow that's for sure.
 
Tadashi70 said:
In Germany you can't play until you have passed a course in rules and skill. US golfers would never go for that because you can't tell them anything. They do what and when they want.
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I'm amazed! I was going to say something about this, but I didn't think anyone would believe me lol!
I am an advocate for something similar also, though .. the courses that are run by tax dollars, well they can do what they want ..
However, the higher end courses like my beloved Paiute GC here in LV. are 3 Pete Dye courses that are uhhh, to die for. :act-up:
I could see where the courses that did enforce a "rules and skill" type of play could suffer on the revenue side.
I'd simply talk to "Germany" and find out what they did to make it work ..
 
You know I have mentioned this in other threads and I think one big misconception is the value that some place on the wrong tees and also poor play as being the huge reasons for slow play. I think they are about the least of the reasons. Firstly its all levels of play where one may be slow. People who are much too slow will be much too slow regardless of tees and whether good or bad play.

They may be a bit "even more" slow for those reasons no doubt further adding to it but there is simply a far greater reason for them being slow far more detrimental than those two things. They are simply just too sloooooow, period no matter what. If they corrected all the other major reasons they are slow you will find they would keep pace regardless of tees. But they are just slow with everything they do. If you forced them up a tee or even two they are still going to be much too slow anyway because that is just the way they are and the way they go about everything they do as they play.

I can play my whites or Blues and shoot perhaps 87 or a 102 and no matter which score or which tees still manage to keep respectable pace. why? because I am aware of and concerned with keeping pace. On a bad day I just move faster in everything I do. I walk faster, I get ready faster, I grab my clubs faster, I take far less time or none at all to look for a ball, take far less time to view my putts, if things are really that bad during a hole I will even just pick up if I have to. Whatever I have to do to keep respectable pace, whatever it takes is what I will do.

And when things are going well I still understand and know how to move along. I don't waste time doing anything and move along very. I don't rush faster because I don't have to but rushing faster was the price I had to pay when things are not going well. The bottom line is I am aware of pace issues. Do not want to cause them and have a genuine concern and common courtesy not to cause any. Too many people simply do not know how to move along or have any regard for doing so. many of them are just slow in many things they may do. Trust me, the person who is much too slow will be that way regardless of tees. Its all the other things far more detrimental to pace vs tees.

It is simply their nature to be that way. They simply just don't = realize it, don't care to realize, don't understand how to do it, are incapable of doing it, don't think about it, are totally unaware it is them, whatever the reasons they will just be slow no matter what. Their sickness is not being cured because they are up a tee or play any better. Your fooling yourself if you think they all of a sudden are going to keep pace. Its just not going to happen.
 
Chip Star said:
I'm amazed! I was going to say something about this, but I didn't think anyone would believe me lol!
I am an advocate for something similar also, though .. the courses that are run by tax dollars, well they can do what they want ..
However, the higher end courses like my beloved Paiute GC here in LV. are 3 Pete Dye courses that are uhhh, to die for. :act-up:
I could see where the courses that did enforce a "rules and skill" type of play could suffer on the revenue side.
I'd simply talk to "Germany" and find out what they did to make it work ..
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With all of the battles which go on about motorcycle helmet laws and gun control laws, do you really think that such a program, no matter how it's introduced, would have any chance at all to fly here? Maybe the Germans are more docile, more willing to bow to authority. In the US, that would just be seen as authority overstepping their bounds.

With all of the griping on this forum about unilateral management and enforcement of the Rules of Golf, I can just see the reaction if the next time you go to the course you are told to leave and not come back until you can show your golf license. Good luck with that plan.
 
ArmyGolf said:
The only exclusive and Private Club I ever played at had a simple but effective system.

You receive an official looking printed punch card with your tee time on it. Just off the 9th green there is a booth with a Marshall and a machine where you have to get it punched again. If you are the first group that is off pace you are shown the door and not allowed to complete the back 9. Any subsequent groups are fine as long as they are 'in position' on the course (right behind the group in front of them - within reason).
This applies to all the members and their guests.
If a certain member and/or his guests cause slow play 3 times they are out of the club with no refund. This is in the contract they sign and they are given tons of warning after their 1st and 2nd infractions.
They are not afraid of losing members, as the wait list is longer than the member list, or so I'm told.

The average round there is 3.75 hours for a foursome.


On a more personal note I am a golfer that deals with slow play every round it seems as I am a Saturday hacker, so I don't really expect any different. I am so afraid of being slow that I have been accused of being 'rude' for suggesting that a player drop a new ball or hitting while he is away and currently in his 7th practice swing. I'd rather be a little rude than slow that's for sure.
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This sounds very much like what I envision, but instead of punch cards and marshalls, RFID tokens given to every player or group and a way to monitor play. Simply timing groups by how long they take to play 9 holes isn't accurate enough to fairly gauge pace.

Simple battery or even solar powered trackers on every hole to track anomalies and groups held up by slow groups could be implemented.

At every tee box, or every few tee boxes, there could be a "station" with some sort of display that indicates a more accurate measure of your groups pace, and also give groups an idea of what the groups in front of them and behind them are doing.

How many times have any of us been unsure of whether or not to ask a group in front of us if can play through? In many cases, I bet that group in front of us was keeping up, but got behind, and there is no way to accurately know what has transpired.

Golfers in general are gentlemen/gentlewomen and err on the side of consideration and respect when approaching other golfers. What if we knew that there was an open hole beyond that group and had a more legitimate and universally known reason to play through?

I'm only scratching the surface of the concept, and maybe many will disagree and I am ok with that.




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I think the biggest takeaway is that inexperienced golfers require a bit of education, and experienced golfers that slow-play just need to be reminded. And NO more than 4 on a regular tee time!
 
Tadashi70 said:
You tell them at the start of the round to keep up with the group in front of them. This idea is reappeared by the Marshall. If they get out of position they need to get back into position.
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The problem with that is if it is JB's group that is in front of them and there is no one in front of his group.

And JB is not the only super fast golfer I know. The problem with keeping in front of the group in front of them is the group after JB could be ahead of pace (say the pace is 2 hours per nine). But JB and his band of hooligans are done with 18 in 2-1/2 hours. The group behind his finishes in 3-1/2 hours (30 minutes ahead of pace) and is VERY slow in your example. Even though the group behind them is two holes behind.

I understand what you are saying, but it's not something you can set in stone.
 
Dr RosenRosen said:
What if a course had a rule that the first two hours of tee times were 4 hour rounds only. The marshall would note what time you teed off and then 4 hours later, regardless of where you are on the course, you are done.

Perhaps the course even offers these rounds at discounted rates. Players that like to play fast would snatch them up. The course wouldn't get bogged down early in the day which would alleviate pressure at prime time, and maybe, just maybe, players that typically play slow would learn how to play faster. The course may also see an economic benefit because players may rent more carts to ensure they finish within the 4 hour time frame.

(Also, how funny would it be to watch the old guys sprinting on 17 and 18 because the clock is ticking and they see the marshall driving their way!)
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That would be a great rule. And lots of courses I know do try to push people early, so the bogdowns happen later in the morning, so the whole day isn't behind. In fact the course I marshaled for a few years ago (Falcon Lakes) were all about 3-1/2 hour rounds the first hour, and 4 hour rounds before 10 am. It worked most of the time.

The problem is you get that one group (and oftentimes it is one person, maybe two, in the group who slow it all down. And once that happens, and you start stacking up, it can be several holes, or at least an hour (or more) before the flow gets back to what it should be.

And to people who think it is a recent thing? I saw slow play in the '80s. Didn't really notice it in the '70s (probably because I was the problem!). My longest round ever (7 hours) happened in 1991. It's not a new problem by any means.
 
jacob.komenda said:
I think the biggest takeaway is that inexperienced golfers require a bit of education, and experienced golfers that slow-play just need to be reminded. And NO more than 4 on a regular tee time!
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Education is needed for all levels of golfers. My dad has been playing for 50 years and is one of the slowest golfers I know.
 
I went through a terrible experience last week at a course here in Tampa where they ran out of carts, when we finally got our carts we had to wait in line so out tee time got pushed back a total of 40mins. Once we got going I thought it would open up but it didn't :banghead: . After we finished the 11th hole at 3hr 40min we just turned around and headed to the parking lot out of frustration.

I looked through my hdc from 2013 and I played 58 rounds between Jan and July before I deployed. I got back late Dec and played 1 so 59 for the year. So far this year I have played 2 full rounds because I am over slow play! I play most of my golf on base after work I get in a few holes before dark and I do a lot of range time. Its sad an area like Tampa that has many nice courses seems to be plauged with slow play. I do look forward in playing some best ball tournaments this year as those tend to be fast pace and lots of fun!
 
RJB,
We are just 45min south of you today doing club testing and playing. Still time to make the trek.
 
I wish I could head down today but I am on call for work so have to stay close by for recall :angry:
 
Smallville said:
The problem with that is if it is JB's group that is in front of them and there is no one in front of his group.

And JB is not the only super fast golfer I know. The problem with keeping in front of the group in front of them is the group after JB could be ahead of pace (say the pace is 2 hours per nine). But JB and his band of hooligans are done with 18 in 2-1/2 hours. The group behind his finishes in 3-1/2 hours (30 minutes ahead of pace) and is VERY slow in your example. Even though the group behind them is two holes behind.

I understand what you are saying, but it's not something you can set in stone.
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This happened to our group last month. The group in front of us was flying around the course. We were more than a hole behind on the front nine and the ranger told us more than once to get moving. We were all starting to rush, etc....when we finished 9 we were around in 1:40 min and the group ahead was long gone. We finished 18 in just over 3:30.
 
Fourputt said:
That is great if the course can afford to take the hit in revenue. If you go from 8 to 10 minute intervals, you are talking about dropping 1½ groups per hour. If the charge is as little as $40 per player, that's a $240 loss every hour during prime time. Figure a conservative estimate of only 4 hours of prime tee times for 3 days a week (Fri-Sat-Sun) that's $2880 per week of lost revenues (my home course fills those tee times 7 days a week in season at an average of about 8¾ minute intervals) - you can do the math). With many courses already hurting from the economy woes, that would be unbearable.
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I don't know. I think it makes more sense to keep things going smoothly, and just not count on that revenue up front, versus getting behind 2 hours into the day, and having to tell the guys with a 10am tee time they will be 30 minutes later. That really upsets folks, and is probably going to cost future business from them. It's all a no win when schedules get messed up, and can happen no matter what. Face it, a 30 minute frost delay, and you have a clubhouse full of these guys....:D
 
Today is one of those mornings where there will be a partial frost delay and subsequent slow play. I'm trying to mentally prepare for it.
 
Smallville said:
The problem with that is if it is JB's group that is in front of them and there is no one in front of his group.

And JB is not the only super fast golfer I know. The problem with keeping in front of the group in front of them is the group after JB could be ahead of pace (say the pace is 2 hours per nine). But JB and his band of hooligans are done with 18 in 2-1/2 hours. The group behind his finishes in 3-1/2 hours (30 minutes ahead of pace) and is VERY slow in your example. Even though the group behind them is two holes behind.

I understand what you are saying, but it's not something you can set in stone.
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This is something that happens to my Saturday foursome. The marshals at the course will look at times, but focus more on keeping pace with the group in front of you. Our group plays at a 3:45 - 4 hour pace. 4:15 sometimes when we have a different group in front of us that plays slower than usual. We end up waiting for every shot, but it's nothing that we get bent out of shape about. We usually find some way to pass the time.
 
Yup- this is my issue as well. Boredom = bad bearded golf.
 
ArmyGolf said:
Today is one of those mornings where there will be a partial frost delay and subsequent slow play. I'm trying to mentally prepare for it.
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Yeah, we just got word of one. They didn't make any tee times until later, but people will show up at daybreak and want to just walk on. I'm glad I can't go out until later.
 
Sounds like education for golfer and rangers is needed. If rangers are pushing you stay ahead of pace and it causes your to rush then I would say push back. Tell the shop so they can train them better.
 
Dogman said:
Yeah, we just got word of one. They didn't make any tee times until later, but people will show up at daybreak and want to just walk on. I'm glad I can't go out until later.
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What's funny is when people show up and are shocked they can't go out, and then ask how long it will be. It will be when the frost goes away. Kinda like when people ask golf courses if it's going to rain.
 
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