Wrapping my brain around slices and hooks

[Tadashi70]

Every slice is guaranteed to have an open face in relation to the swing path at impact. Hitting the heel doesn't help but it is absolutely happening because the face is open.

This statement is not true, all slices do not occur because of an open club face.

 

[ButterFade23]

This statement is not true, all slices do not occur because of an open club face.

I have yet to see someone hit a slice with a square club face. I'm curious as to how a slice can happen with a square club face. I'm not saying there aren't other factors that contribute to a slice, just that if the ball curves to the right the face is open in relation to the swing path. How can one slice a ball without an open face?

 

[Tadashi70]

I have yet to see someone hit a slice with a square club face. I'm curious as to how a slice can happen with a square club face. I'm not saying there aren't other factors that contribute to a slice, just that if the ball curves to the right the face is open in relation to the swing path. How can one slice a ball without an open face?

Tell me how you hit a pull fade?

 

[ButterFade23]

Tell me how you hit a pull fade?

Even with a pull fade the club face is still open in relation to the swing path. The club face can be square to the target and still be open in relation to the swing path if you're pulling the ball.

 

[Tadashi70]

Even with a pull fade the club face is still open in relation to the swing path. The club face can be square to the target and still be open in relation to the swing path if you're pulling the ball.

You do realize the body is pulling across the ball at impact. The releasing of the club is what creates left axis. If you hold the face and allow it to pull across the ball you create right axis. Club doesn't have to be open to create this.

 

[arydolphin]

Even with a pull fade the club face is still open in relation to the swing path. The club face can be square to the target and still be open in relation to the swing path if you're pulling the ball.

You do realize the body is pulling across the ball at impact. The releasing of the club is what creates left axis. If you hold the face and allow it to pull across the ball you create right axis. Club doesn't have to be open to create this.

You guys are talking about 2 different things. Butterfade23 is talking about club face being open to the path of the swing, which I believe that Tadashi is talking about the club face being open to the target line. Both of you are correct in what you are saying, but basing an "open club face" on 2 different thoughts.

 

[Tadashi70]

You guys are talking about 2 different things. Butterfade23 is talking about club face being open to the path of the swing, which I believe that Tadashi is talking about the club face being open to the target line. Both of you are correct in what you are saying, but basing an "open club face" on 2 different thoughts.

That's it not what I am saying at all

 

[tequila4kapp]

I have yet to see someone hit a slice with a square club face. I'm curious as to how a slice can happen with a square club face. I'm not saying there aren't other factors that contribute to a slice, just that if the ball curves to the right the face is open in relation to the swing path. How can one slice a ball without an open face?

A club face that is square to the target but struck with an out to in swing path would produce the slice. The slice is not caused by the club face (correctly square to the target), but instead by the path.

 

[tequila4kapp]

You guys are talking about 2 different things. Butterfade23 is talking about club face being open to the path of the swing, which I believe that Tadashi is talking about the club face being open to the target line. Both of you are correct in what you are saying, but basing an "open club face" on 2 different thoughts.

I read Butters post as using the term "square club face" two ways - in relationship to the swing and also more generically, which probably means to the target for most of us.

 

[ButterFade23]

A club face that is square to the target but struck with an out to in swing path would produce the slice. The slice is not caused by the club face (correctly square to the target), but instead by the path.

Were saying the same thing. The key words in my statement are "in relation to." I'm not referring to the club face in relation to the target, I'm referring to the club face in relation to the swing path. Think of it this way, you can hit straight pulls and pushes. With a pull the face will be closed in relation to the target but square to the swing path producing a relatively straight ball flight. Same with a push, the face would be open to the target but square to the path again producing a relatively straight ball flight. What really matters is, again, the face angle in relation to the swing path, not the target.

 

[tequila4kapp]

In a different thread a couple of days ago there was talk - and general consensus - that closing the face would make a slice worse, which doesn't really make sense to me because (I thought) closing the face would make it more square to the path.

 

[ButterFade23]

In a different thread a couple of days ago there was talk - and general consensus - that closing the face would make a slice worse, which doesn't really make sense to me because (I thought) closing the face would make it more square to the path.

Closing the face would just lead to a straight pull (or the dreaded pull hook) as I described above when referring to an outside in swing. One of my favorite tips for people that slice is to tell them to get their back to the target on the backswing and swing through to the right.

 

[Tadashi70]

Closing the face would just lead to a straight pull (or the dreaded pull hook) as I described above when referring to an outside in swing. One of my favorite tips for people that slice is to tell them to get their back to the target on the backswing and swing through to the right.

I need to unlearn all that I have taught in the golf swing

 

[ButterFade23]

I need to unlearn all that I have taught in the golf swing

My apologies for posting my thoughts

 

[Tadashi70]

My apologies for posting my thoughts

Post what you want. You're right and I'm wrong. My 20 plus years of teaching the studying the swing needs to be retooled.

 

[ButterFade23]

Post what you want. You're right and I'm wrong. My 20 plus years of teaching the studying the swing needs to be retooled.

Not sure why you're taking this personally

 

[robmypro]

Okay guys, I am back from an epic 200+ ball range session and I have some details. Freddie, I am really curious to hear what you have to say about this session!

So the weather was only half crappy today (50* and a bit windy) so I went for it. I need to work on this darn slice issue. I probably hit 30 balls with my short irons, just to warm up. Then I pull out the girl, slapped on some impact tape, and tried to hover with the sweet spot lined up. I hit a fade with decent distance, check the tape, and I am still not hitting the sweet spot. Closer, but still a heel bias. I make another adjustment, lining up closer to the toe. Bomb! And straight. So I am thinking awesome! And then the next 2 are banana slices.

This sport.

I play around with ball position (I lined up 5 balls so I could check position accurately each time), and still have this slice going. Plan B. Based on extensive research (I watched a YouTube video yesterday) I closed the club face, and then rotated my shoulders to get the club square. Crack! Nice looking shot, with good distance. So I think, okay this fixes my swing path, so let's practice this. And for a while it was good. Then things starting getting erratic. Hook one. Slice one. Drill it down the middle. Throw in a few fades for good measure. I am thinking this might not be a slice, but I have no idea where the ball is going from shot to shot. Then I decide to just hit it the normal way I was from the start. Square club face, regular shoulders. And the thing goes straight as an arrow. Now I am looking around the range going WTF? Who in their right mind hits a tiny little ball with a piece of metal on the end of a stick, and expects accuracy? So finally I end up closing the face of the club, rotating the shoulders a little, taking my backswing, and then just letting it rip. Straight and long!

So to recap. I hit 200 balls, 170 with the driver. This was easily the best session I have ever had with any driver, which tells you how bad things were going before today with the big dog. I hit the best drives of my life, and there were some absolute beauties. I have been able to go from 95% fade or slice to 50% straight, and 50% doing something else. The difference is that before, everything started left and went right, where now I am really not sure where the ball will go, but it will have a different shape wherever that is.

I definitely saw a lot of progress today, but I also got a glimpse of how much work it is going to take to get this driver under control. Distance was awesome. Terrible shots were less than 5. But accuracy was lacking.

One last thing. Thankfully I found this golfer's tape to wrap my fingers, or I would be needing skin grafts right now!

 

[tequila4kapp]

I appreciate your upbeat and positive attitude!

A little video for Freddie may prove way more useful to you than the rest of us discussing things by text

 

[jlukes]

Why did you hit so many with the driver? If you are working on swing adjustments the largest chunk should be with no more than a 6 iron. In fact, most teaching pros teach with the 8 iron.

Are you hitting everything else well and only having issues with the driver?

 

[robmypro]

Are you hitting everything else well and only having issues with the driver?

Yep. No slice issue with anything else, except the woods. And the driver is the most pronounced. Irons are pretty much straight.

 

[robmypro]

I appreciate your upbeat and positive attitude!

A little video for Freddie may prove way more useful to you than the rest of us discussing things by text

Thanks buddy! No need being frustrated. Besides, I like the challenge. I wish I had a video of this session, but I will have to take another one and post it. Good idea!

 

[JB]

In fact, most teaching pros teach with the 8 iron.

Is this a fact? The reason I ask is I have had 6 different teachers over the last decade and not one of them focused on an 8 iron.

 

[jlukes]

Is this a fact? The reason I ask is I have had 6 different teachers over the last decade and not one of them focused on an 8 iron.

Yes, according to Michael Breed on the Golf Fix

 

[JB]

Yes, according to Michael Breed on the Golf Fix

Interesting. I must be seeking out the wrong instructors.
Ironically, David leadbetter, did not do that either. He held one of my wedges in his hand the hole time, but never touched (nor did I) my 8 iron i dont believe.

 

[jlukes]

Interesting. I must be seeking out the wrong instructors.
Ironically, David leadbetter, did not do that either. He held one of my wedges in his hand the hole time, but never touched (nor did I) my 8 iron i dont believe.

Just passing on what I saw on the golf channel. Wasn't saying it was gospel...