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What is the best way to make a Golf Course difficult?

I think trouble around the greens (water or sand) is the best way to protect a golf course. I think you need something down the edges of the fairways, either trees, high grasses, or water to penalize errant tee shots, but I think trees can be overrated due to getting lucky bounces back into fairways or knocking the ball straight down.

The thing I find unfair is blind tee shots particularly ones that hide trouble, and really long forced carries (say 175 plus) into greens. Around here locally, I'm also not a big fan of the "hit off the side of the mountain" par 3 where you tee off more than 50 feet higher than the green level.
 
I'd go with elevation changes. Elevation changes really make holes interesting not just because they change the site lines and you have to account for distance changes, but because it can give you all sorts of lies (uphill, downhill, sidehill)
 
Firmer and faster greens are typically the easier way to give a course some defense. I also love using tress and bunkers as visual intimidation. They might not even be in play but just the look of trouble will usually get the golfer thinking and bring more stuff into play
 
I do enjoy forced layups off of the tee, with bunkering crossing the fairway or making the landing area for driver severely more narrow. I like to think about whether I really should pull out the big dog, and when you don't it should still be a challenge to make a good shot to leave yourself with a chance at birdie. I'd much rather play a shorter "target golf" course like this than one that just uses distance to present a challenge.
 
Most strokes are taken around the green. The best way to make a course harder is to harden up and elevate the greens, with a lot of slope and speed to them. Shave the fringe and rough around the greens so that shots that aren't perfect run a good distance away.
 
Honestly I don't really hate one of these strategies more than another - I want them to be used appropriately and I want some variety. I don't like courses for example where half of the holes are only tough because they are extremely long, and I also don't like courses that pepper every hole with water hazards. I have no issue with elevated greens and sand, and I don't mind blind shots as long as it only happens a few times. I have a HUGE issue with using length as the sole driver for difficulty, because I think it's a way to cover up crappy course design in a lot of cases, plus it wastes land. Water hazards are fine as a driver for strategy, but I do think they tend to be overused on modern courses, especially when massive lakes are dug and filled that didn't exist before.

Really, I admire course designers who use the available land characteristics and contours to create a layout with plenty of difficulty without moving a ton of earth or digging 3450345099 bunkers and water hazards. Most true links courses are a perfect example of this (the Bandon courses, Royal Portrush, Turnberry, etc.). A lot of water heavy courses in Florida are a good example as well, because the fact of the matter is there are a TON of lakes in Florida, so in this case I don't mind a lot of water.

EDIT: One thing I hate is extremely long rough lining every hole. It slows play significantly when no one can find their damn ball and even when they can, they can only advance it 100 yards.
 
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I love tree lined fairways, but more aesthetics than difficulty. I don't have one specific thing that I like that Moses a course hard, it would be a combination of things.
 
As far as forced layups go bow many times do you want to hit driver in a given round? Assuming par 72 and 4 par 3's do you want to hit driver 14 times? 10? 7?

Personally I want to hit driver 11-13 times and am willing to tame on some risk to do so.
 
ArmyGolf said:
As far as forced layups go bow many times do you want to hit driver in a given round? Assuming par 72 and 4 par 3's do you want to hit driver 14 times? 10? 7?

Personally I want to hit driver 11-13 times and am willing to tame on some risk to do so.
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You know me, I'm not afraid to hit less than driver when it fits my plan. So I really don't mind forced layups on some holes, but don't make me do it on half of the par 4's and 5's.

Coming down to number of times hitting driver, I hit it average around 10 times - closer to 12 on wide open courses, sometimes 8 or even less on tighter courses. For me, as long as the course gives you 10 or 11 real opportunities to hit it, I'm OK. Less and I start to think the course is tricked up.
 
I enjoy courses that are visually interesting. I am not a fan of courses or holes that are long to make things difficult as that often removes my ability to make par, where as a course or hole that uses trouble keeps par in play be requiring smarted choices or a different approach.

The most enjoyable tough courses for me are ones that give you options but due to placements of hazards, preferably tall rough and sand so I am not losing a ball, make you think twice. Shorter courses with trouble are preferable to long courses since they give people of differing lengths off the tee shots at par. Elevation changes are nice, too but blind shots are not fun for me.
 
I also enjoy courses the use wind tendencies to play with holes. Holes into the wind should play differently than with the wind. I hope the design takes that into account.
 
Fast and contoured greens. Anything but more distance...long and featureless is the fullest type of course to me.
 
ArmyGolf said:
As far as forced layups go bow many times do you want to hit driver in a given round? Assuming par 72 and 4 par 3's do you want to hit driver 14 times? 10? 7?

Personally I want to hit driver 11-13 times and am willing to tame on some risk to do so.
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leaving par3's aside I would say of the other 14 holes I would say about 9 or 10 times is a good mix with 3 or 4 layup holes. Of course this depends how long one is with driver too. But i think there should be almost handful of holes that ask for a layup tee shot for a good mix. As said earlier, what good is a short dogleg if they too easily allow one to cut the hole thing out with the driver? Kind of defeats the purpose imo and offers no character and no thinking.
 
What is the best way to make a Golf Course difficult?

Have Jack Nicklaus design it!
 
Six4three5 said:
I like courses that force you to play a bit of target golf. By that I mean not being able to overpower the course even if it's short. Protect the landing area with drivers with narrow fairways, fairway bunkers, water, etc. Force players to take different clubs off the tee rather than just whacking away with the driver. Throw some pretty severe dog legs that makes golfers use creativity to get a good score.
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dAS0 said:
I enjoy courses that are visually interesting. I am not a fan of courses or holes that are long to make things difficult as that often removes my ability to make par, where as a course or hole that uses trouble keeps par in play be requiring smarted choices or a different approach.

The most enjoyable tough courses for me are ones that give you options but due to placements of hazards, preferably tall rough and sand so I am not losing a ball, make you think twice. Shorter courses with trouble are preferable to long courses since they give people of differing lengths off the tee shots at par. Elevation changes are nice, too but blind shots are not fun for me.
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These 2 posts echo my preferences for courses, but I also don't mind courses that give you the choice with risk and reward shots so you only have yourself to blame when you make a mess of it

I am not a fan of courses with blind shots - I used to play one quite regularly so knew the lines you had to pick, but if you play a course for the first time it is not my idea of fun to not know the lines you need to hit on
 
What is the best way to make a Golf Course difficult?

v.man said:
What is the best way to make a Golf Course difficult?

Have Jack Nicklaus design it!
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Then tee it forward!

Thanks Jack
 
at this point of the season, I'd say I loke dry golf courses ;)

but in general, I like holes that make you think on the tee, I love target golf, even if I cant hit them
 
rollin said:
leaving par3's aside I would say of the other 14 holes I would say about 9 or 10 times is a good mix with 3 or 4 layup holes. Of course this depends how long one is with driver too. But i think there should be almost handful of holes that ask for a layup tee shot for a good mix. As said earlier, what good is a short dogleg if they too easily allow one to cut the hole thing out with the driver? Kind of defeats the purpose imo and offers no character and no thinking.
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I like short doglegs that you can try bomb it over or around because around here you are either hitting over water, tall trees, or some form of OB in order to do so. I think that's fair risk/reward.

A hole that forces a 200 yard lay up with no other options has way less character than a hole with options...just my opinion.
 
ArmyGolf said:
I like short doglegs that you can try bomb it over or around because around here you are either hitting over water, tall trees, or some form of OB in order to do so. I think that's fair risk/reward.

A hole that forces a 200 yard lay up with no other options has way less character than a hole with options...just my opinion.
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You just want to bomb Bertha on every hole because you love her so much! :blob:

I don't mind a forced precision layup. Those holes are tough, but I don't think they are uninteresting because they exercise a different part of your game. Like I said before, I don't like tricked up courses where they make you hit iron or hybrid off the tee 5 or 6 times, but a couple times and it makes you think instead of just reaching for the big dog.
 
ArmyGolf said:
I like short doglegs that you can try bomb it over or around because around here you are either hitting over water, tall trees, or some form of OB in order to do so. I think that's fair risk/reward.

A hole that forces a 200 yard lay up with no other options has way less character than a hole with options...just my opinion.
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I would agree "if" the risk is high enough. But not just not for one that is made easy to do because then it serves no purpose imo.
As for the forced 200 yrd layup i disagree. If such a hole is asking for a precise landing zone I think that has character. To me it says "hey, i'm only 340 yrds and everyone is going to have hit the 200 and also come in from 140" . You need to make two good shots instead of taking a shortcut acros and shortening the hole by landing in front of the green or a short pitch away. Much more character the other way imo. But again like you said, if that risk is indeed high for doing that then i think you have a point too.
 
Greens with a lot of undalations makes it tough.....can make two putting a challenge if you are not on the right tier.
 
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