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Freddie, any ideas on ow to get rid of my big flip

BamBooBender

BamBooBender

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Without losing all ability to keep the ball on the course that is. I'm losing 20 yards throughout the bag doing this. I have tried for several years to get rid of this flip, and have for the most part, but don't hit the ball nearly as straight and often have trouble even keeping the ball in play.

The following videos are what I do when I want to hit the ball straight and on target, my old swing, not any of the changes I have been working on. I got rained out before I could film any of those. I'll try andf get some of those posted for comparison and advice soon.

Doesn't look so bad down the line.
Driver DTL


7i DTL


Here is where it starts to get ugly
Driver face on
[video=youtube;e-gwhAUZ-IA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-gwhAUZ-IA&index=2&list=UUJ6-kAintTxkBYF2kjdC61w[/video]

7i face on
 
Freddie, any ideas on ow to get rid of my big flip

Have you tried swinging the handle of the club through the zone? What this concept is about is if you swing the handle or grip the club head will follow. This gets one to hold the angle longer because you have to image trying to hit the ball with the grip. It's such a short section of the club you have no choice but to stay down, swing though and hold the angle.

I know this is you old swing but I don't need to see your new swing. No disrespect but I know you have manufactured something and I want you get away from both swings.

This swing you showed me is a huge cast and that is a no no in golf swing. Only good in Bass fishing. You are really sucking the club way inside on the back swing and I'd like to see the club head travel straight back from the ball and the fold the right arm I to a 90* or right angle. Let your shoulders continue to turn until your left shoulder meets you chin or your back is to the target.

From the top of you swing I want you to swing the handle, the but of the handle down toward the ball. If you do this with no lower body movement you will come over the top. So be sure to initiate the swing with a bump of he left hip and get those hands tracking down toward the right hip or get the right elbow coming that way. Still pulling the butt of the club down toward the ball. A great trigger is to get that right knee pointed at the ball. Your hips will be sure to clear.

Make sense?! Let me know how it owls out.
 
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Tadashi nailed it .. But also might want to also look into a better thru swing pivot . You have " cement shoes" .. No turn and all arms hand hands coming down
 
Tadashi70 said:
Have you tried swinging the handle of the club through the zone? What this concept is about is if you swing the handle or grip the club head will follow. This gets one to hold the angle longer because you have to image trying to hit the ball with the grip. It's such a short section of the club you have no choice but to stay down, swing though and hold the angle.

I know this is you old swing but I don't need to see your new swing. No disrespect but I know you have manufactured something and I want you get away from both swings.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I think I know what you mean about trying to hit the ball with the grip, I'll give that try. Normally if I try to "hold the angle" I hit the ball farther but 40 yds or more to the right.

I don't get what you mean about manufactured something though.
 
Mystery Meat said:
Tadashi nailed it .. But also might want to also look into a better thru swing pivot . You have " cement shoes" .. No turn and all arms hand hands coming down
Click to expand...

I do need to turn a little more to start my downswing.
 
BamBooBender said:
Thanks, I think I know what you mean about trying to hit the ball with the grip, I'll give that try. Normally if I try to "hold the angle" I hit the ball farther but 40 yds or more to the right.

I don't get what you mean about manufactured something though.
Click to expand...
Manufactured means you put moves together to change your swing. These moves are band aids to fox what was broken but typically lead to other issues, like flipping.
 
I like the thought of swinging the handle at the ball. I've been focusing on getting the handle to the ball before the club head, but I could see this helping compress the ball more coming in a little steeper (which I need) but also releasing later.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Manufactured means you put moves together to change your swing. These moves are band aids to fox what was broken but typically lead to other issues, like flipping.
Click to expand...

band aids is right because they don't seem to last. So how then does a person get better without their score blowing up to infinity?
 
BamBooBender said:
band aids is right because they don't seem to last. So how then does a person get better without their score blowing up to infinity?
Click to expand...
Patients and lots of reps. When grooving a swing you can't take time off when it gets bad. You have to learn to play through it. no matter what the outcome.

Now what most pros don't do is teach course management. They teach swing, it's up to you to take that swing to course and learn to play it. I don't like to play misses but in the beginning stages of a swing changes you have to so just that. You slice it off the planet, go find it and learn to score until that slice become a fade and then a power fade. Learning to play the miss will aid you once the swing is grooved and you need that recovery shot.
 
Fwiw, It's a big scoop, but an accurate scoop. On the DTL driver I actually hit that big pine tree I was aiming for at 230.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Patients and lots of reps. When grooving a swing you can't take time off when it gets bad. You have to learn to play through it. no matter what the outcome.

Now what most pros don't do is teach course management. They teach swing, it's up to you to take that swing to course and learn to play it. I don't like to play misses but in the beginning stages of a swing changes you have to so just that. You slice it off the planet, go find it and learn to score until that slice become a fade and then a power fade. Learning to play the miss will aid you once the swing is grooved and you need that recovery shot.
Click to expand...

That's something that has been hard to do, I often go back to my default when the going gets rough. Playing for my miss is hard on the course since it can be a three way miss at times (rope hook, big push, or thinned badly).
 
BamBooBender said:
That's something that has been hard to do, I often go back to my default when the going gets rough. Playing for my miss is hard on the course since it can be a three way miss at times (rope hook, big push, or thinned badly).
Click to expand...
Activate the lower body and you'll eliminate two misses
 
Philly Golf Guy said:
I like the thought of swinging the handle at the ball. I've been focusing on getting the handle to the ball before the club head, but I could see this helping compress the ball more coming in a little steeper (which I need) but also releasing later.
Click to expand...

I've been trying to get that feeling too, but oftentimes I hang on too much and hit great shot way right of my target.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Activate the lower body and you'll eliminate two misses
Click to expand...

I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes. Thanks again for your time and sage advice, it really means a lot!
Edit: I'll probably wait till after I go to Hudson for the MI/WI get together to really dig my heels in because I don't want ot pull my partner down too much.
 
BamBooBender said:
I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes. Thanks again for your time and sage advice, it really means a lot!
Edit: I'll probably wait till after I go to Hudson for the MI/WI get together to really dig my heels in because I don't want ot pull my partner down too much.
Click to expand...
When is this outing?
 
Freddie, I did video some more swings today with what I have been doing to try and stop flipping, and you were right about not bothering to post them because they don't look all that much different--less flip at best and a little more lower body.

The video camera does not lie, and as much as I'd like to think I greatly changed my swing in the past couple of years, it looks surprisingly similar.

One thing I don't get is that I sure hit the ball a lot further today, about 20 yds further and pretty much online, and that's with only minor changes according to the video camera. I can't imagine what I could do if I could achieve a good impact position. I think maybe sometimes I do, which could account for the numerous times I airmailed the green last year.
 
What is further? What was you average before and what is now?
BamBooBender said:
Freddie, I did video some more swings today with what I have been doing to try and stop flipping, and you were right about not bothering to post them because they don't look all that much different--less flip at best and a little more lower body.

The video camera does not lie, and as much as I'd like to think I greatly changed my swing in the past couple of years, it looks surprisingly similar.

One thing I don't get is that I sure hit the ball a lot further today, about 20 yds further and pretty much online, and that's with only minor changes according to the video camera. I can't imagine what I could do if I could achieve a good impact position. I think maybe sometimes I do, which could account for the numerous times I airmailed the green last year.
Click to expand...
 
Tadashi70 said:
What is further? What was you average before and what is now?
Click to expand...

About 1.5 - 2 clubs further. On a ~150 yd shot I would play 7i with the super flippy swing, with the not so flippy swing I will hit 9i.
 
BamBooBender said:
About 1.5 - 2 clubs further. On a ~150 yd shot I would play 7i with the super flippy swing, with the not so flippy swing I will hit 9i.
Click to expand...

I would echo this.

Been struggling with flipping hands and early release. Times that I've gotten to a good impact position I have easily hit it 15 yards farther on iron shots.

The problem is that I can't shake the habit. Extremely hard to do. Still a work in progress.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
 
lilbilly said:
I would echo this.

Been struggling with flipping hands and early release. Times that I've gotten to a good impact position I have easily hit it 15 yards farther on iron shots.

The problem is that I can't shake the habit. Extremely hard to do. Still a work in progress.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I don't know if I have ever really got to a good impact position, but I think I have learned to time it better, which of course is on again off again. If I have, I haven't been able to capture it on camera. I thought I was making good impact with certain swing thoughts/focus, but the camera shows that same left wrist breakdown happen only just a little later.
 
BamBooBender said:
I don't know if I have ever really got to a good impact position, but I think I have learned to time it better, which of course is on again off again. If I have, I haven't been able to capture it on camera. I thought I was making good impact with certain swing thoughts/focus, but the camera shows that same left wrist breakdown happen only just a little later.
Click to expand...

This is an extremely tough habit to break for me. I can shorten my backswing, alter grip or set up position, but early release is my nemesis. All others take some work and focus and I can get a handle on it, this is a different animal.

When I tell myself to "hold the angle" and I focus on that, it does not turn out well. Getting my hands through first is almost a byproduct of other mechanics for me, and then it seems to happen naturally a good percentage of the time. But of course, that's still very much a work in progress.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
 
I started to get the feeling for starting my downswing with a little hip bump and turn yesterday. I was killing the ball on some shots, but unfortunately I was also killing my back. Man my back was sore last night, it sucks too because I really liked what I saw. I was able to play 18 today, but had to take it easy. I tried to start with my lower body on the course for the first few holes, but gave that up because it wasn't working too well. I need to figure this out on the range, if my back can take it. I better take it slowly I guess.
 
You were right again Freddie! I sent those same videos to Kirk Junge, who is a single axis/plane instructor, for review, and he basically says I need more hip action.

 
I've been hitting some really solid shots the past few days while trying to not flip the club, but on video my swing still looks almost exactly the same. I even teed the ball really low and forward with my driver, and was hitting some great drives thinking "there's no way I can be flipping and hitting drives like these with the ball teed so low". Well, apparently I can.:confused2:
 
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