HoselRocket104
Active member
Sorry, but I just read the first and last page of this thread. I'm sorry but this seems like a great deal. Will this guy fit you for the J40s? If no this is a no brainer. P
First set of clubs? $1,600?
HoselRocket104
Active member
Nothing better than R7s and X-20s? Strongly disagree. I'm not in the business but I've hit your two recommendations and they're no where near what I currently play.
GMAMAS GOLF
New member
maybe i missed something, but if andy said he has only been taking lessons for a few weeks and he is buying his first set of clubs, the idea of "fitting" is worthless. and there is no way to determine what is going to be good for him at this point. like is said, i have been doing this a long time and i have seen all the mistakes. its always better to buy the least expensive thing that "might" work for you and move up the ladder, than buy the most expensive thing that "might" work for you and have to fall off the ladder to a very painful expensive landing.
Mulligan9111
Go Skers!!
I understand that you've been in the golf business for a long time, but no matter how long you have been in the golf business there is no possible way you can know what would work best for him without seeing him play/hit the ball. At this point we are all just making assumptions about his swing based on the length of time playing.
GMAMAS GOLF
New member
thank you mulligan, that is exactly my point. NOBODY can tell a beginner golfer what is best for them. butch harmon couldnt help this guy pick out irons if he has only been "taking lesson" for a few weeks. so i think it is irresponsible to sell a newbie a new, expensive set of clubs. i used x-20's and r7's as examples because they worked so well for so many people that there is a better than average chance they will work for andy. all of these post are coming from people who already understand their game. there weaknesses and strengths. they know what they like to feel and what they dont. you have to look at it from the eyes of somebody who has no idea about any of those things. i see that you play x forged irons. you are either a very good player or a masochist. i will assume you are a good player. nothing that would make sense for you can transfer to someone who doesnt even own a set of clubs yet.
i will stick with my premise of a good quality low priced used iron that has been a success to many many players. then if that doesnt work you can spend 50 bucks and try another set.
i will stick with my premise of a good quality low priced used iron that has been a success to many many players. then if that doesnt work you can spend 50 bucks and try another set.
Mulligan9111
Go Skers!!
Not sure I agree with that at all. I'm not comparing myself to the original poster at all. My opinion was to listen to his teaching professional who made the suggestion. The teaching professional has a lot better idea of what his swing looks like and the potential of his swing, than I do, or anybody on this forum does. People have given out great advice and I'm not saying that anybody is wrong. At some point though, I would ask myself, "if I don't trust the opinions/suggestions of my teaching professional, why am I still having him/her as my teaching professional?"
I respect your opinion, I just don't think there is only one way to go about things. No two golfers are alike and some golfers take to the game a heck of a lot faster than others.
Good.Shepherd
New member
I like golf pros, value them, and don't mean to bad mouth at all. But if you know the history of golf and golf equipment, you would agree that there is a long, long history of teaching professionals not being the right guys to recommend or fit equipment. Generally their incentives lie elsewhere and disfigure their recommendations.
It falls under the old saying of, "Don't ask the barber if you need a haircut."
GMAMAS GOLF
New member
GS is right on the mark. if i had the memory i could literally give you thousands of examples of teaching pros giving absolutely horrible advice to students in an effort to sell something or move dead product. and to say that somebody who has absolutely no experience should "trust" someone they just met that gives them golf lessons is not a fair spot to put them in.
no joke, we had a 65ish year old woman come in our store once with ping isi irons, 4 degrees upright, one inch over length with extra stiff steel shafts. sold to her by her golf instructor. she wanted to know why she couldnt hit them as well as she hit her friends irons. go figure!!
in know many many absolutely great teaching pros, but i have no idea if the one andy is working with is one of them. i know i dont like his advice on clubs so far.
no joke, we had a 65ish year old woman come in our store once with ping isi irons, 4 degrees upright, one inch over length with extra stiff steel shafts. sold to her by her golf instructor. she wanted to know why she couldnt hit them as well as she hit her friends irons. go figure!!
in know many many absolutely great teaching pros, but i have no idea if the one andy is working with is one of them. i know i dont like his advice on clubs so far.
Mulligan9111
Go Skers!!
Respectfully disagree. I've been playing for 15 years now and have even worked at a couple of golf courses during high school and college. I've never seen a golf professional pushing equipment onto one of their students. In fact there have been many cases where the golf professional suggested that the player stay with their current clubs because they wouldn't see an advantage with a change.
Granted, not every golf professional is the same, and I understand that. So I guess it's possible that I was just lucky enough to work for great bosses.
CAA_Beat
Active member
My former boss used to say this all the time. And while it's cute and gets a chuckle, it is far from a hard and fast rule
If my cardiologist tells me I need heart surgery, I'm thinking he's not just saying it for a payday
Mulligan9111
Go Skers!!
I respectfully disagree with your opinion. At this point I feel we are just going to keep going in circles, so I'm going to bow out of this conversation. Thanks for the discussion though.
- Admin
- #112
FWIW, I tend to agree with Gmamas. For all the people saying go for it, do you honestly believe that if you just picked up the game, took a couple of lessons, someone should plunk down over 1500 bucks before they even know if the game will stick?
Gmamas is in the business to sell gear and even he thinks that one should crawl before they should walk. The ability to start small (investment wise) and find out if you end up loving the game, improving at the game and plan on sticking with the game seems like incredibly sound advice.
Gmamas is in the business to sell gear and even he thinks that one should crawl before they should walk. The ability to start small (investment wise) and find out if you end up loving the game, improving at the game and plan on sticking with the game seems like incredibly sound advice.
deuce
Grenade!
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2014
- Messages
- 17,203
- Reaction score
- 218
Well ...If my cardiologist tells me I need heart surgery, I'm thinking he's not just saying it for a payday
It's why people are often told to seek a second opinion. There are many people, in many fields, who are feeling the financial pinch and will do just about anything to drum up business. It's always good to be a skeptic.
I didn't read all of this, but I would take a hard pass on that deal. I could see an experienced player that loves the game and is really into equipment taking that deal, like a lot of people on here. Start simple man, and keep putting that extra money towards lessons if it's in your budget. That would be what I'd do anyways.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2013
- Messages
- 17,428
- Reaction score
- 28
- Location
- Montreal, Quebec, Canada
- Handicap
- 12.8
best place to start IMO would be the marketplace here on THP, jsut say you want cheap beginners equipment and you'll be surprised how the people here can hook you up
Mulligan9111
Go Skers!!
Maybe try talking with your teaching pro and see if he has some suggestions on what shaft flex/length/lie angle/etc. you should look for in a used set. I think that would help you out a lot in trying to find the right used set.
CAA_Beat
Active member
True enough Tom. 2nd opinions are almost always a good thing.
This is extremely solid advice Andy. You may be surprised at what becomes available if you follow it.
Philly Golf Guy
#PGG
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2012
- Messages
- 9,103
- Reaction score
- 7
- Handicap
- USGA 14
Yeah if my golf pro ever pitched me on anything, I'd be very weary. There should be a good amount of trust between the pro and student, so any time that trust is used to pitch equipment, a membership, etc., I'm pretty much reaching for my car keys to take off. For me personally, I'd never want clubs I'll grow into. I want clubs I can play now.
Good.Shepherd
New member
My former boss used to say this all the time. And while it's cute and gets a chuckle, it is far from a hard and fast rule
If my cardiologist tells me I need heart surgery, I'm thinking he's not just saying it for a payday
It's about incentives, not expertise
Many golf pro shops, including the pros who have a stake in them, either make a commission or have their incentives tied up in inventory and moving inventory. And this is nothing new--it goes back in my understanding to Butch Harmon and Tommy Armor teaming up and selling "custom fit clubs" to club members that were just cash inventory stock. Walter Hagan used to do the same thing, playing courses with amateurs in order to sell them equipment or real estate.
I'm not suggesting all pros do it, but I can tell you that a pro who doesn't earn a commission or a percentage of inventory revenue (if they have a stake in the shop) is the exception. I'm sure they're out there, but if you erred on the side of caution you'd be right much more than you'd be wrong.
Again, it's not all nefarious intent. It's just basic incentives. For a pro to sell you into a "set you can grow into"--what happens if you don't hit them well? Well, obviously you can use some more lessons. Win/Win/Win. They sold the clubs, they got a commission, and then they sold more lessons.
But for a shop that deals in all equipment, they want to make you happy because if they do not, you'll go somewhere else. They make their money selling equipment, too, but they're not nearly as limited in inventory in the same ways. They cannot hide behind the imprimatur of "pro" or your club expert. They have to prove themselves to you and cannot leverage the student/teacher relationship.
GMAMAS GOLF
New member
very thoughtful insight GS. and you are right.
Milwaukeeguy
Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
- Messages
- 118
- Reaction score
- 3
- Handicap
- 10.3
Bottom line:
Get a decent set.
Play as much as you can and learn.
Have fun.
Upgrade after you have 50 rounds under your belt.
*50 is not a magic number, but if you play once or twice per week for a season, then it's pretty clear this is a serious hobby, and you should upgrade your equipment. If you are only playing 8 times per summer, then stick with something moderately priced and spend your money with the beer girl.
Get a decent set.
Play as much as you can and learn.
Have fun.
Upgrade after you have 50 rounds under your belt.
*50 is not a magic number, but if you play once or twice per week for a season, then it's pretty clear this is a serious hobby, and you should upgrade your equipment. If you are only playing 8 times per summer, then stick with something moderately priced and spend your money with the beer girl.
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
If you truly don't want the membership, then don't take him up on his deal. If I'm you, I might ask if he can hit you into those clubs instead, rather than "growing into them". Or maybe see if he would or can sell you a year of Driving Range/Practice Membership with the clubs instead? Something you might want to actually use. Also, maybe there is another set, that's more in your price range he might be able to give you a good deal on, instead? Don't close the door on the deal all the way. It's NOT easy to sell clubs in the Pro Shop anymore, with all you can buy online now. Chances are, he can hook you up pretty well and give you enough of an extra side kick back to make it worth dealing through him, rather than online.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2010
- Messages
- 19,618
- Reaction score
- 4,086
- Location
- Liberty Lake, Washington
- Handicap
- GHIN 7.1
If you buy a membership, then you are pretty locked into playing one course to get your money's worth.
Is that what you want to do?