Pace of play idea: get rid of impossible rough.

[Good.Shepherd]

I just had one of those never endiong rounds the other day--playing as a single. It was unreal. But they were booked ahead of me and there was a five in front of me and a six behind me. It started out fine, we weren't all bunched up and when the starter sent me out it was clear. But everyone was losing balls, and everyone would spend five minutes per ball looking.

I know this is "native rough", but it's just ridiculous how it plays on the course and unless everyone in front of you 10 foursomes up hits straight it's going to kill pace of play. Pretty much going a foot off the second cut triggers a lost ball 8/10 times. I only lost two, which was a miracle, but I played it like I would have played a US Open course and was exceptionally conservative.

The guys ahead--it was just provisional after provisional with 15 minutes of looking in between.

Why do courses do this? They're not hosting a major tournament. They're a public course. They encourage beginning golfers to learn on the course, too.

Here's the fairway, first cut, and native. This stuff was all over.

 

[Brianbigoats]

I have seen the same thing around here my local muni had 2-3 inch second cut of rough and made it very difficult if you got of the fairway and really slowed play down then a new GM took over and cut the rough to 1in and pace picked up around 15-20 min a round

 

[fupresti]

Before I rush to judgement and get my torch and pitchfork, how wide is the fairway before the first cut?

 

[Barberakb]

Better not miss off the tee!

 

[grathan]

Not every course should be hacker friendly IMHO. It would be nice to play someplace without hackers for a change, of course that might exclude me though...

 

[JB]

If its too tough, I would say play it as a hazard. What would you do if it were water in that spot?

 

[Good.Shepherd]

Before I rush to judgement and get my torch and pitchfork, how wide is the fairway before the first cut?

Not generous. Some were quite wide as with all courses, but not as much as you would think. It certainly wasn't an easy course in terms of fairway real estate.

 

[AG47]

This is the reason that all of our rough is cut at 1.5 inches with no native rough. It speeds up play and makes things much more fun for the average golfer.

 

[Good.Shepherd]

If its too tough, I would say play it as a hazard. What would you do if it were water in that spot?

Great point and that's exactly how I played it. But what I need is a professional skywriter (hell, I'll take an amateur) to get that message to the other 40 people on the course ahead of me.

But the good news with water is, no time lost looking. It's just gone baby gone. With rough, there is hope and so I think guys invest even more time than they would in strict OB areas.

 

[Jersey Nate]

Great point and that's exactly how I played it. But what I need is a professional skywriter (hell, I'll take an amateur) to get that message to the other 40 people on the course ahead of me.

But the good news with water is, no time lost looking. It's just gone baby gone. With rough, there is hope and so I think guys invest even more time than they would in strict OB areas.

About the bolded, I've been caught behind groups where they've taken their time to try and comb water hazards with their ball retrievers. Talk about slowing down a round...ugh.

 

[Good.Shepherd]

About the bolded, I've been caught behind groups where they've taken their time to try and comb water hazards with their ball retrievers. Talk about slowing down a round...ugh.

Wow So I'm a patient guy. Super patient. But I go just a little apoplectic if I saw a guy pull an tube and flippers out of his bag and start blowing them up.

Some people.

 

[Agent Jay]

There is a time and place to be a ball hawk, but if there are people waiting on the box or in the fairway behind me....that's not the time. Take a minute or two if you had a good look at where it went in at, then take a drop.

 

[tpluff]

Instead of taking out "impossible rough," why not suggest to the clubhouse or starter to tell players on a busy day to only look for a few minutes for a ball in the native grasses? From a worker stand point, that rough could be there for a couple reasons: design, less water/maintenance/chemicals. Sometimes it takes a little initiative from the course to get play moving. Heck, a marshal should be spotting things like this and keeping track of pace of play. Just my opinion though. We played it as a free drop at The Fort for THP, an idea as well.

 

[Good.Shepherd]

Instead of taking out "impossible rough," why not suggest to the clubhouse or starter to tell players on a busy day to only look for a few minutes for a ball in the native grasses? From a worker stand point, that rough could be there for a couple reasons: design, less water/maintenance/chemicals. Sometimes it takes a little initiative from the course to get play moving. Heck, a marshal should be spotting things like this and keeping track of pace of play. Just my opinion though. We played it as a free drop at The Fort for THP, an idea as well.

I don't mean to discourage this at all, because philosophically you're dead right. Couldn't be more right.

The problem is that, in practicality, getting coordinated human behavior via appealing to their better selves is maybe the most confirmed ineffective way to deter bad behavior.

It's like putting up a "No Robbing" sign at a bank. The people who weren't going to rob the bank anyway will abide by it, and those who were going to rob the bank don't care about the sign.

Either the golf course would need to make marshalls more ubiquitous and punitive for pace of play issues, or they can alter the environment to be better designed for pace of play.

Frankly, I'd rather see more mowers than marshalls on the course, in general, but that's just my bias.

 

[lilbilly]

Instead of taking out "impossible rough," why not suggest to the clubhouse or starter to tell players on a busy day to only look for a few minutes for a ball in the native grasses? From a worker stand point, that rough could be there for a couple reasons: design, less water/maintenance/chemicals. Sometimes it takes a little initiative from the course to get play moving. Heck, a marshal should be spotting things like this and keeping track of pace of play. Just my opinion though. We played it as a free drop at The Fort for THP, an idea as well.

Yes, because golfers always obey the suggestions of the marhsalls.

Not.

It also doesn't matter if the fairways are 30 yards wide. Have you seen the big push slices being hit out there? 50 yards right and it's still peeling right on the fly...

Amateurs also need to know their what's best for them too. But come on, this is the same guy that says he is shooting 90 when he takes a mulligan on each 9, props up his lies, uses the foot wedge, and takes 3 foot gimmies, all while never taking penalty strokes. Getting amateurs to be honest about their skill level and play accordingly is as likely as getting the next powerball.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

 

[blugold]

Fescue and native grass doesn't slow play down. Slow golfers slow play down.

 

[ArmyGolf]

I'll actually agree with the OP here. The long nasty stuff is a pace of play killer even for a group of normally quick golfers. You know your damn ball is in there somewhere and you don't want to take a penalty so you look and look and look. I'm willing to just admit a ball is gone but most people are dead set on finding it.

 

[lightningbolt44]

People just need to realize if they lose a ball it is not the end of the world. Take a quick look if you cant find it then drop a ball. I like native areas however I almost always will just take a quick peak if I hit in them and not search.

 

[Erky]

The course is clueless if they are letting fivesomes and sixsomes out there. The rough is the least of your worries.

 

[beeDoubleU]

Instead of taking out "impossible rough," why not suggest to the clubhouse or starter to tell players on a busy day to only look for a few minutes for a ball in the native grasses? From a worker stand point, that rough could be there for a couple reasons: design, less water/maintenance/chemicals. Sometimes it takes a little initiative from the course to get play moving. Heck, a marshal should be spotting things like this and keeping track of pace of play. Just my opinion though. We played it as a free drop at The Fort for THP, an idea as well.

I agree with this, but is there a way to deter golfers from going native? It's not a water hazard, but can red stakes be placed along those areas to help speed up play?

 

[moosejaa]

Maybe I'm wrong but if you can't find your ball in it, what chance do you have to hit out of it if you do?
I think cutting it or marking it as a hazard is the way to go although some people will still spend too long looking for it even if it's a hazard.

 

[rollin]

I have a muni by me that has the same stuff lining the holes. Instead of trees, woods, oob, water, whatever, they have this fescue very similar to the pictures shown. What can you do? The course is designed around this stuff. If I don't hit the fairway or even the rough and am too far off than so be it, I'll be in this ball swallowing nightmare. But I didn't hit a shot well enough. I don't think I have to be safe if I don't hit the fairway or the rough. After all I am suppose to play the hole. Not hit errant shots and still be able to score well. The ends of the hole layout has to end somewhere with something. Could be light trees, heavy woods, oob, water, whatever. We have the fairway then we have the rough, after that we could have anything. How wide should they allow one to be off target and stay safe?

If your talking about the first cut being made manageable I can understand that but for this fescue, the end (or sides) of a hole has to end somewhere with something. Some sort of hole boundaries. The biggest problem with this entire thing imo is those who feel they just cant let the darn ball or their score go. Lets face it, I hit a shot, it didn't make the fairway, and also it didnt even make the rough. I was simply too off with the shot. Could be woods, oob, whatever, Now I just look for a minute or so and take my beating that was totally my own fault and move on. Its the people that are slow, not the grass.

 

[wadesworld]

I agree with this, but is there a way to deter golfers from going native? It's not a water hazard, but can red stakes be placed along those areas to help speed up play?

A course can't legitimately just throw red stakes out there because they want it treated like a water hazard. If it doesn't meet the criteria for a water hazard, they can't declare it as one.

I think a lot depends on the market the course is typically addressing. If it's a country club that's full of good golfers and known for the difficulty of its course, great. If it's a public course that has a large mix of ability levels, then I'd agree that it's too penal and will slow play dramatically. Another situation that always amazes me is when public courses have 225+ yard par 3's from the blues. Knowing how many players play the blues (because their ego won't let them play the whites), courses are just asking for slow play. During a tournament once, we were backed up behind 4 other groups on a 235-yard par 3. I saw 1 player out of 4 groups hit the green. Courses need to have a some sense about who their audience is and adjust their course accordingly.