Irons Reshafted... Can't hit 'em.

[ajsarrat]

I had a set of AP1's with Nippon NS Pro 105's with a mismatched 7 iron (S300 shaft) so I went to a fitter who worked on tour for years, thinking I would just get the whole set fitted while I was at it.
He watched my swing and ball flight on a range, off of a mat, (range balls) with a launch monitor. After a number of shots with different clubs in my set, he said he knew which shafts would be good for me. He reshafted with Precision Rifle 115g (I'm unsure of the number 5.5, 6.0, etc but I can find out), checked loft and lie (bent 2* upright based on watching my miss to the left).
When I went to pick up the clubs, my shots were straight to a fade and nothing going left, which is weird from my very limited understanding about flatter lies to fix a hook and stronger lies to fix a slice, but that's what happened. (I'm thinking that the more upright lie angle may be causing me to stand taller and make more of an upright swing instead of my previously flatter swing which may or may not be contributing to the ball flight).
Anyway, after picking up the clubs, I took them to the grass range and ball flight was erratic. Then I started shanking them. Every club in the bag going 45* to the right. I had also put larger grips on and initially thought that I was keeping the clubface open or having difficulty keeping the face square to the arc, so I called the fitter over and of course every ball went straight or a slight fade. He had to go teach a lesson and as soon as he walked away the hosel rockets started again. I went home and put the standard grips back on and went to play the next day. I fixed the shanks for the most part but had a few during the round.
With a few more range sessions and rounds under my belt now, my flight is pretty unpredictable. Pushes, Pulls, Hooks, Slices. I don't know if it is a shaft problem, a swing problem or both. Before the reshafting, everything was straight or to the left and now I don't know where the ball is going to go.
I'm going to talk to the fitter, but does anyone have any ideas? Should it take time to get used to new shafts or should they be good to go right away?
Thanks in advance!

 

[Hawk]

Tough situation.

I don't think shafts or grips or a small lie angle adjustment have anything to do with shanks first of all.

The erratic ball flight could be related I guess, or it could just be coinciding with one of the normal downturns the golf swing seem to take with most average golfers. I will say though that the fitting process seems pretty sparse. He just eyeballed a shaft for you? Also, did he just adjust lie angle by sight as well?

 

[ajsarrat]

He used a lie board after adjusting them 2* upright, but I really feel that I was compensating my swing for the clubs by standing more upright or keeping my hands higher. I just don't know if that will be better for my swing in the long run?
I was trying to keep my hands lower at impact, bending over more from the hips at address, but find that more difficult now with the upright clubs.
There seem to be so many ideas on proper swing mechanics (even tour pros swings are very different), and fitting I don't know what's better, changing my swing or re-adjusting the shaft/club?

 

[Hawk]

You shouldn't have to change your stance to accomodate the clubs. That's the point of the change in lie angle. You stood a certain way before and indicated a need for an upright lie angle, so now you should be able to take the same stance and swing and (ideally) get a flush sole at impact.

Take all that out of your mind for a big. Even if you have to take your stance and set the club down with your eyes closed. It's going to look a little different since the toe is a little higher, but that's a good thing in theory.

 

[Rambler]

You shouldn't have to change your stance to accomodate the clubs. That's the point of the change in lie angle. You stood a certain way before and indicated a need for an upright lie angle, so now you should be able to take the same stance and swing and (ideally) get a flush sole at impact.

Take all that out of your mind for a big. Even if you have to take your stance and set the club down with your eyes closed. It's going to look a little different since the toe is a little higher, but that's a good thing in theory.

To the bolded part, a long time ago, I went through a fitting and spent a little bit of time trying to have a flush sole at address - this caused all kinds of problems in my stance, obviously. I like that you were really specific here... Even if it may not "look right" at address, take a normal stance/setup and swing - conditions at impact are what matters in the end.

 

[McLovin]

I had a set of AP1's with Nippon NS Pro 105's with a mismatched 7 iron (S300 shaft) so I went to a fitter who worked on tour for years, thinking I would just get the whole set fitted while I was at it.
He watched my swing and ball flight on a range, off of a mat, (range balls) with a launch monitor. After a number of shots with different clubs in my set, he said he knew which shafts would be good for me. He reshafted with Precision Rifle 115g (I'm unsure of the number 5.5, 6.0, etc but I can find out), checked loft and lie (bent 2* upright based on watching my miss to the left).
When I went to pick up the clubs, my shots were straight to a fade and nothing going left, which is weird from my very limited understanding about flatter lies to fix a hook and stronger lies to fix a slice, but that's what happened. (I'm thinking that the more upright lie angle may be causing me to stand taller and make more of an upright swing instead of my previously flatter swing which may or may not be contributing to the ball flight).
Anyway, after picking up the clubs, I took them to the grass range and ball flight was erratic. Then I started shanking them. Every club in the bag going 45* to the right. I had also put larger grips on and initially thought that I was keeping the clubface open or having difficulty keeping the face square to the arc, so I called the fitter over and of course every ball went straight or a slight fade. He had to go teach a lesson and as soon as he walked away the hosel rockets started again. I went home and put the standard grips back on and went to play the next day. I fixed the shanks for the most part but had a few during the round.
With a few more range sessions and rounds under my belt now, my flight is pretty unpredictable. Pushes, Pulls, Hooks, Slices. I don't know if it is a shaft problem, a swing problem or both. Before the reshafting, everything was straight or to the left and now I don't know where the ball is going to go.
I'm going to talk to the fitter, but does anyone have any ideas? Should it take time to get used to new shafts or should they be good to go right away?
Thanks in advance!

an upright lie angle is meant to help people who fade/slice the ball, not people who draw/hook the ball. are you sure he bent them upright and not flat?

maybe the overall feel just isn't what you're used to. i'd say to trust what he did and try it for several more trips to the range and a few rounds. if it doesn't work itself out, go back.

 

[kapsularian]

If you think that the fitter did a bad job then you could to to another fitter and compare. Maybe it has nothing to do with the changed that were made and it is just time for a lesson to get some confidence back.

 

[Hawk]

an upright lie angle is meant to help people who fade/slice the ball, not people who draw/hook the ball. are you sure he bent them upright and not flat?

maybe the overall feel just isn't what you're used to. i'd say to trust what he did and try it for several more trips to the range and a few rounds. if it doesn't work itself out, go back.

Not necessarily, but it's a good question for clarification.

I play a pretty upright setting with a left miss. The lie angle just isn't the cause of the left miss.

 

[McLovin]

Not necessarily, but it's a good question for clarification.

I play a pretty upright setting with a left miss. The lie angle just isn't the cause of the left miss.

good point!


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[Hawk]

good point!


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LOL I try to blame it on the lie angle at least 4-5 times a year. The sharpie doesn't lie though

 

[McLovin]

LOL I try to blame it on the lie angle at least 4-5 times a year. The sharpie doesn't lie though

I did the same thing. Went in convinced that my new right miss was the result of the irons being too flat, but the tape said it was spot on. Stupid clubface.


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[ajsarrat]

Thanks, I'll just try them out for a while with my regular stance and swing and see if I can find some consistency first.

 

[emart2173]

agree there should be no need to change your setup to accamodate the fitting. the fitting was done based on your setup and swing at the time of the fitting.

some people struggle when getting new clubs of sorts.

 

[Mulligan9111]

The part that's a little confusing to me is that you mentioned you hit the clubs well when the instructor/fitter was with/by you. I would think that the erratic ball flight you mentioned would show itself at least a couple times while the fitter was watching you hit, if it was truly the clubs causing it.

 

[adamw238]

It takes some time getting used to a new set up. I know with the rare exception of my Morgan Cup set up last year, it takes me at least 3 range sessions and a few rounds to get used to the new feel. With the different shafts, you're going to have a different sense of where the head is during the swing and may alter your release. Same thing could be true if the swing weights are different than what you're used to.

The Nippon shafts are a really smooth, almost soft feeling shaft, where the precision rifle/project x shafts are pretty stout and do take some getting used to. give them a couple of rounds and don't think about the shaft.

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[ryebread]

Mental. If you think you can hit it, you can hit it. If you think you can't, you'll never be able to.

I think you've probably let the changes to cause doubt to creep in. I don't think there's anything there that wouldn't get fixed by hitting 500 straight iron shots while BSing with a friend over a beer.

I say this as a complete hack too. It just takes the tiniest little thing to throw it off. When that happens, I'm sometimes afraid I'll never be able to hit it good again. When the shanks start happening, I know that's happened.

Now, watch me start shanking tomorrow.

 

[ajsarrat]

The Nippon shafts are a really smooth, almost soft feeling shaft, where the precision rifle/project x shafts are pretty stout and do take some getting used to. give them a couple of rounds and don't think about the shaft.

Good luck and keep us updated!

Yeah, that's the feeling I have now. I also compared the old shaft length to the new ones and my current 5 iron shaft is longer than my old 4 iron shaft.
I ran into the fitter/builder and made an appt to see him on Wednesday.

I hit a couple buckets yesterday, one in the morning and one in the afternoon and I was still all over the place. When I take what seems to be a very slow and deliberate swing, it seems to work the best. If I "go after" it at all the ball could go absolutely anywhere, whereas before it would always go left. I know I'm coming over the top when I go after it so from now until Wed I'm going to really try to stay on plane with an "Ernie Els" swing and see what happens.

When I really connect the Rifle shafts feel awesome, but the inconsistency is not worth it at all right now. I feel like there were too many changes made at once - shaft length, flex, shaft weight, head weight, lie angle.

 

[adamw238]

Yeah, that's the feeling I have now. I also compared the old shaft length to the new ones and my current 5 iron shaft is longer than my old 4 iron shaft.
I ran into the fitter/builder and made an appt to see him on Wednesday.

I hit a couple buckets yesterday, one in the morning and one in the afternoon and I was still all over the place. When I take what seems to be a very slow and deliberate swing, it seems to work the best. If I "go after" it at all the ball could go absolutely anywhere, whereas before it would always go left. I know I'm coming over the top when I go after it so from now until Wed I'm going to really try to stay on plane with an "Ernie Els" swing and see what happens.

When I really connect the Rifle shafts feel awesome, but the inconsistency is not worth it at all right now. I feel like there were too many changes made at once - shaft length, flex, shaft weight, head weight, lie angle.

Definitely takes some getting used to. Stick with it and I'm sure you'll come around. Look how long it took Rory to get used to his clubs when he switched, and he probably hits more balls a day than everyone on this thread combined.


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[Tadashi70]

Sorry that's not a shaft issue, that is a swing problem.

 

[jlukes]

LOL I try to blame it on the lie angle at least 4-5 times a year. The sharpie doesn't lie though

Quoted for truth. I've been dealing with a slight push/fade lately and I thought "maybe my swing changes have caused me to need my clubs bent upright". Went to the range yesterday and did the sharpie test with 3 different irons and got perfectly vertical lines nearly every time

 

[ajsarrat]

Ok, so after putting in some serious work with the Rifle shafts, I think I'm onto something.



I went out to play a short executive course using irons only (with one 5 wood because I couldn't resist) and with the exception of some weird 7 irons, (user error: one hooked and bounced backwards after hitting a tree) I've never hit them longer in my life.

I'm used to hitting my 6 iron 165-170 and today I smashed one 198. Crazy!

Then I went to the range and it all seems to be coming together. I need to take a slow backswing to what feels like 3/4 then a smooth transition and the ball flies off the club face with a loud "whack."

Now I just need to learn my distances and I should be good to go. Except I might need to adjust the loft on my 5 wood and get a lower lofted hybrid now...

 

[bubba182]

Good luck, I had a similar problem two years ago and ended up buying new Callaway Apex irons. In my case it worked out for the better as I love the Apex irons. But I wasted a lot of money

 

[Nixhex524]

Glad you are figuring it out. Just takes some time to get used to things here and there. I was fighting the shanks for a while, too, and it was because I was starting my downswing with my hands which caused me to throw the club head out to the ball, causing shanks or heel hits that would just go right all day. If the new shafts are considerably lighter than your old ones, I would think this COULD contribute to you forcing it down, or throw you off a little at the least. I have been focusing on keeping my left elbow tucked through the backswing and it has really helped me get the ball back in the center of the face, and on the toe as my new miss. Hope you work it out, it can be damn frustrating!!!!