Slow players play slow. Changing the pace of the greens will just mean bad putters leave putts short, and slow players play slow. There are so many ways to play slow, and on the greens is just one of the myriad ways.
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I'm in the leave things as they are crowd. But the issue isn't wanting to play a foursome in 3.5 hours or less . It is the 6 hour grind that is killing golf.
Yes every course I play at has a pace of play listed at 4 to 4.5 hours. But how many times is the pace of play enforced. I can only remember one time I actually saw a Marshall ask a group to a let another group play through because of pace of play in over 30 years of hitting the links.
We all want the sport to grow. And we all agree that pace of play is a serious issue hurting golf and driving golfers away to other recreational activities.
We let's agree that 4 or 4.5 is okay. But let's also agree that 6 hours is just no longer acceptable. If you need that much time to line up your putt, regardless of the green speeds. You are probably doing something wrong. And I'm sure your game will improve if we all just pick up the pace.
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Agreed. Thanks for doing your best to improve the game.You haven't played our course. I've personally gone out and had groups let others through.
Letting groups through isn't the end all to the situation though. You want groups to pick up the pace, not let people through, because letting groups through means the group who is already slow, is now standing around for six to eight minutes while the group they let through hits their first shots, and then their second shots. All the while, more groups are coming up behind them.
I may be missing something but how does slowing greens down save water?
Oh ok, you learn something new everyday.Longer blades of grass means they don't dry out as fast meaning they require less water. When your lawn isn't mowed as low it requires less water before it burns.
What I see from everyone is "practice more", "pick up the pace", "get rid of the long pre-shot routines" that are caused by the PGA tour players. In a perfect world.
But let's not kid ourselves. If we include those who don't keep official handicaps, over half of the golfers out there can't break 100. The preshot routine may not be based on what they saw Tiger do on TV ten years ago, but may be just getting their mind ready so they don't lose a dozen Noodles during a round. They don't take lessons. And over half their drives end up either duck hooked or sliced off into the woods. Most end up in the rough. They're playing from the blue "men's" tees for machismo. They may be out with their kid who can't drive the ball more than 140 yds and he's also playing from the blues. Both these people should be playing from the red tees mis-termed "ladies" tees.
They've tried "Tee it forward" and that initiative failed because it's based on distance not on ability. Someone hit a 260 yd drive once and they think they should play from the blue tees. No one wants to admit they hit their average drive under 200 yds. especially with these monster heads.
I still think stimping the greens to a max of 9 in non-tournament conditions would help the average mid to higher handicapper play a little faster, but it's not the whole answer. Not only that it saves on water and chemicals, making the course a little more eco-friendly. Water is becoming a very important issue.
We've cut down the rough and that hasn't helped. We've cleared out the underbrush in woods and that hasn't helped other than make sure no poison ivy or poison oak takes hold.
Another thing that was suggested was getting rid of fairway bunkers - these things are at the typical driving distance of most golfers. Better golfers drive past them, but I don't think this is the answer either. Removal of tree blocking the forward exit from Fairway bunkers? Yes, that would help a lot. Some courses I've played have these. Long forced carries? Yes, that would help.
Changing the bunker rule allowing people to drop the ball outside behind the bunker at a cost of one stroke if they keep a line from where the ball was in the bunker and the hole with no limitation as to how far back they can drop would speed up play. Reason: bunkers are hazards, and they're the only hazard on the course that you have to drop inside if your ball unplayable. In a lateral hazard, if your ball is unplayable, you have a few different options available that do not involve hitting the ball from inside the hazard and a lateral hazard does not have to be filled with water. Most people suck at hitting out of bunkers and take a couple strokes or more. This would save time for those people.
A lot of courses were designed with a par 3 on the second hole - this is a terrible bottleneck, especially if the men's tee is 190 yds. That's a 3H for a lot of people which is not an accurate club.
Another thing is that the majority of golfers can't control their drivers. The drives always go into the trees on one side or another on over half of the holes. Most people who play on the course aren't good enough to hit a driver. Many people can't hit club that has less loft than a 6 iron. But acknowledging this fact would be detrimental to the game. A player who cannot break 100 should IMO play from the red tees and tee off with a 6 or 7 iron and play around the course like that. The goal is to bogey every hole on the course. They don't need to play a single fairway wood all the way around. If they can get a reasonable distance like 140 yds with their 7 iron, I can almost guarantee they'll end up with a score around 94 and be done with their round in around 3.5 hours. They may even par a short par 4 to offset a double bogeys, maybe not but I doubt they'll have balloon holes, because hitting a 7 iron 140 yds up the fairway is better than rolling a topped 3W 40 yds.
As the person gets better, they move back to the senior tees and use their 3W off the tee. Then when they get better move back to the white tees and they can play their drivers.
But it's not fun to play this way. That's the problem with this. You'll never get anyone to do it because no guy is ever going to play from the red tees unless they're instructing a woman. So we have to live with band aids. One of the band aids is to make putting easier for the average player. Or we continue to suffer with long rounds on weekends. Marshalls aren't going to run paying customers off the course for slow play because courses need the revenue.
The USGA should have thought about this when they banned the anchored stroke, too. They could have banned it for professional competition. In basketball they have a three point line. In high school, it's 19' 9". In College it's 20' 9". In Europe (FIBA) and the WNBA it's 22.1'. In the NBA it's 23' 9". You can have different standards for different levels.
It would be nice if every course had the same green speeds, but that would never happen. To many variables from place to place to accomplish that. I think it would be nice if there was a standard measure listed at each course. Just like the cart sign most courses have on #1 about if you can go off the path, have a sign to say what speed the greens are. I don't know if it would help speed play at all, but it would help people learn how to play at that speed. If your regular course was always a 10, and you played at a new place that was an 8, you would know to adjust and by how much. Over time, many golfers would be able to adjust based on the number. It wouldn't speed up play, but it would be nice to know. Right now, green speeds are measured as slow, kinda slow/kinda fast, fast, really fast, and really freaking fast. I would not be opposed to getting that standardized.
I'd be willing o try a larger hole but I am not sure it would speed up play. Also I like to think I am playing the same game the pros play even though I know it is very different.