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No, I haven't gotten used to leaving the pin in. I hate, hate, hate it in the hole.
Have any you pin pullers (via covid) now gotten use to leaving it in?
I stopped pulling the pin pre-covid. Doesn’t affect my game and speeds up the round. None of my pin-pulling-playing-partners intends to change once we’re allowed to pull the pin post-covid.
I have gotten used to pin in and I doubt I will go back any time soon to pulling. That being said, the noodles/upside cups can't go away soon enough. The number of putts that go in and out of the hole because of that is maddening.
I had another birdie putt bounce off the pin/noodle combination Sunday and of course it was a team skins game and my buddies on the other team got a good laugh out of it as it would have definitely been holed without the noodle and flagstick. I’ve already pulled some flags the last couple weeks on shorter putts and look forward to soon pulling it each time I’m inside of 20 feet. I’ve had about 20 putts kicked out by the pin/noodle/pvc combination this spring and very likely one HOI that finished just 3” behind and past the center of the hole directly opposite my ball mark. The noodle on that cup was sitting high allowing lest than half the ball to sit below the level of the green when holed.
Matthew
Well-known member
based on some these responses I am hoping leaving it in becomes a must rule always.
Glad to see at least some former "remove the pin" folks have now converted.
As for telling me what it costed you, there is no way you can ever truly say one way out weighs the other. No matter whatever side you lean on, there is always a percentage of helping to negate a large percentage of the tiny percent you felt it hurt anyway. In other words saying its advantageous to a real measurable value degree is pointless and has no true merit other than it being a mental thing. And in that case, with due respect id suggest get over yourself and let things flow a bit smoother on the greens. But hey thats just me. And the many many others more who keep coming over to this side
Or, and I'm just throwing this out there, we could be entitled to having an opinion contrary to yours without being told we're wrong. I see putts better without the flag and putts/chips that are falling over the lip shouldn't be knocked back by the flag nor an upside down cup.
Firmly #teamtaketheflagout
Last year I was playing and someone said with the pin in it cut off half the hole. For the rest of last season I had to take out the pin. This season I have played a ton and I have no issue leaving the pin. I guess I got use to having the pin in the hole. My putting has gotten better this season
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I look forward to being able to take it out again. I also look forward to all the pool noodles I'm going to help set on fire when they're no longer needed
When I play by myself or with my son, we pull the pins. I hate putting with the pin in. But I will when I am golfing with a friend of mine we don't pull the pins and that's fine too. I just like to have the pin out with shorter putts.
I mean, except the studies that show it does actually hurt more than help, especially for good putters, sure.
Don't get me wrong. I can live with it being in. I'm not some free-the-cup lunatic, but I appreciate it being out sometimes.
It’s simple common sense that a flagstick can knock putts out of the hole and only can help hole a too fast to go in shot/putt if it hits the flagstick dead center. Over the years I’ve had hundreds of chip, pitch and bunker shots rejected by the flagstick and only had it help me hole a too fast shot maybe 20 times. I’ve also made hundreds of chip shots when the flag was pulled. I’ve played a lot of golf(over 4,000 rounds) and I also hole more chip shots than your average person with two holed(out of 5 total attempted chips) in the last 3 rounds so I’m guessing I have way more data points on this topic than most. Nobody will ever convince me differently. The math and physics are simple as with a .5” flagstick and a 1.68” ball there is only 0.195” of room for the ball between the edge of the cup and the flagstick. If there is wind or the cup is cut on a slope, or if the flagstick is larger than .5”, that gap for the ball can shrink to less than 0.1”. Anyone who believes that is enough space for gravity to suck the ball into the hole without any chance of the flagstick rejecting it is lacking understanding of the laws of physics. I prefer to have the full 4.25” diameter of the hole leaving 2.57” for gravity to it’s trick on a putt hitting center cup rather than that relatively tiny 0.195”.
Also, It’s complete nonsense that pulling the flag takes more time when done properly in anything played as a twosome or more. We pull the flag on almost every green and almost alway finish in less than 3:30 as a walking foursome and often in 3:10 or less. I’ve played hundreds of rounds in the last 5 years with my daughter who shoots in the 90’s in less than 2:20 as a riding twosome pulling the flagstick on every hole. There are lots of ways to a speed up a round and leaving the flagstick in doesn’t rank in the top ten.
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Matthew
Well-known member
Completely agree, more room = more holed balls
Some are pulling the pins again now that they can and some aren't. Maybe fewer now, but it's hard to say. Most of our courses removed the noodles or PVC a few weeks ago. Yesterday I played in a tourney that still had pieces of PVC in the holes. Maybe they are just being extra cautious right now so as to not jeopardize their July 23-26 Korn Ferry event? I do know the PVC 100% cost me a birdie yesterday but what can you do.
In my opinion, especially with experienced golfers, the amount of difference pin in/out makes as to pace or flow is way over blown. Also, there were significant differences in how well the cups accepted balls depending upon the strategies various course used to mitigate the Chinese virus. Just the pin itself rejects some balls and potentially helps others, but the barriers made it even more likely that (would've been) hole outs were rejected.
In my opinion, especially with experienced golfers, the amount of difference pin in/out makes as to pace or flow is way over blown. Also, there were significant differences in how well the cups accepted balls depending upon the strategies various course used to mitigate the Chinese virus. Just the pin itself rejects some balls and potentially helps others, but the barriers made it even more likely that (would've been) hole outs were rejected.
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certainly your entitled to your opinion. But in my opinion your opinion would be wrong.
liking it in or out is just a feeling and doeant have any right or wrong. But claiming its so much more help one way vs the other is not an opinion but is a claim and imo would be wrong and is very debatable. I just dont think (regardless tohebum's opinion and experiences) that it mattes much at all. I think the differences are so small either way and also think that whichever way one chooses that a lot of it would be negated by at least some percentage of the opposite affect happening anyway and therefore making the claim (in either direction) even that much more minimal.
To straighten out everything they should just go with a thin pole (at the cup level) and this way its affect is even closer to zero either way.
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i think the difference to it helping or hurting is way overblown, and in fact that the positive affect to smoother flow on the greens is much more significant than it is any hurting or helping.
certainly your entitled to your opinion. But in my opinion your opinion would be wrong.
liking it in or out is just a feeling and doeant have any right or wrong. But claiming its so much more help one way vs the other is not an opinion but is a claim and imo would be wrong and is very debatable. I just dont think (regardless tohebum's opinion and experiences) that it mattes much at all. I think the differences are so small either way and also think that whichever way one chooses that a lot of it would be negated by at least some percentage of the opposite affect happening anyway and therefore making the claim (in either direction) even that much more minimal.
To straighten out everything they should just go with a thin pole (at the cup level) and this way its affect is even closer to zero either way.
It doesn't matter much to bogey golfers but to better players who hit the hole a lot more on their putts and chips, it definitely matters. The lower your index they more important the mental side of the game becomes and putting is very much a mental game. I have yet to run across a plus index golfer who doesn't pull the flagstick most of the time inside of 10 feet. With the flagstick out on shorter putts my brain sees a much larger hole and that is reason enough for me to pull the flagstick. Perception and visualization matter a lot for putting. The shadow that the flagstick creates or the flag flapping in the wind are other visual/audio distractions that make me hole fewer short putts. I've tested it on the practice green several times by putting 50 balls each with and without the flagstick and even with the tiny practice flagsticks that don't reject the ball out of the hole and visually don't take up much room, I hole more putts without the flagstick. Some may prefer the flagstick in and that is their choice that I have zero problems with. Those who seem bothered with those who hold a different opinion on this topic are definitely the flagstick must always stay in folks, IMO.
If leaving the flagstick in would help in making more putts we wouldn't see the vast majority of PGA Tour players pulling the flagstick for those putts inside of 15 feet? They also must see some mental or other advantages by pulling the flagstick.
Matthew
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certainly your entitled to your opinion. But in my opinion your opinion would be wrong.
liking it in or out is just a feeling and doeant have any right or wrong. But claiming its so much more help one way vs the other is not an opinion but is a claim and imo would be wrong and is very debatable. I just dont think (regardless tohebum's opinion and experiences) that it mattes much at all. I think the differences are so small either way and also think that whichever way one chooses that a lot of it would be negated by at least some percentage of the opposite affect happening anyway and therefore making the claim (in either direction) even that much more minimal.
To straighten out everything they should just go with a thin pole (at the cup level) and this way its affect is even closer to zero either way.
And I think you're wrong. The pin is an obstruction, which by it's very definition is in the way.
Definition of OBSTRUCTION
the state of being obstructed; especially : a condition of being clogged or blocked; an act of obstructing; something that obstructs… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
Definition of obstruction
1a: the state of being obstructed especially : a condition of being clogged or blocked
b: an act of obstructing
2: something that obstructs
Leave it in if that's what you want to do or not but a blanket statement that it doesn't matter is again, your opinion which does not make it fact/law/science.
In my opinion, which is not fact/law/science either, is get the dang thing out of the cup.
MrDC
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Bring back the cup, it's a better game, pandemics aside I'd be all for the the rule being changed back to the flag must be pulled, I don't see it speeding up play at all and the questions of "would it have holed?" are getting silly, and I hate seeing a fast putt backstop drop, don't need that in the game either, "make the game easier" is for golf wimps IMO.
I'm only used to it because it is obligatory. Would still like it out on short putts given the chance. Yesterday had a left to right breaker e.g. and my ball was sitting right in the shade of the flag pole which made things a bit awkward.
CobraX51
F-ck Yeah Baby!
Prior to COVID I liked leaving the pin in, definitely during, and will continue to do so after.
Matthew
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we can go on and on with the debate as we had done in other past threads. i think your both wrong and there are also experiments and opinions and experiences and logics that say otherwise. As for pros, its more a mental getting use to thing as well imo and also alot to do with tradition.
if hypothetically it was always that way or we continued to let it always be 100% in , I highly doubt anyone cap nor average scores are measurably significantly changing either way because of it. And fwiw still my opinion that either way makes no difference through a long body of work in the long term especially once gotten use to. .
And yes I can feel and do feel the other opinion is wrong. Im allowed to feel that way and make the blanket statement that it doesnt matter.
Others can disagree and still have thier opinion too. Just that imo if their opinion is based on anything more than just liking the pin a certain way then their opinion would be wrong imo.
But hey we can agree to disagree. Its still civil and good talk.
if hypothetically it was always that way or we continued to let it always be 100% in , I highly doubt anyone cap nor average scores are measurably significantly changing either way because of it. And fwiw still my opinion that either way makes no difference through a long body of work in the long term especially once gotten use to. .
And yes I can feel and do feel the other opinion is wrong. Im allowed to feel that way and make the blanket statement that it doesnt matter.
Others can disagree and still have thier opinion too. Just that imo if their opinion is based on anything more than just liking the pin a certain way then their opinion would be wrong imo.
But hey we can agree to disagree. Its still civil and good talk.
I guess you could say I've gotten used to it. I've gotten used to putts being left short or rolling off to one side of the hole or the other as it gets there because it has changed me from an aggressive putter to one that feels he must die the ball in the hole with the flagstick in. 