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PODCAST Off Course: Episode 14: Is Jack Full of It?

Cringed everytime Dan equated levels of etiquette goals to a progression of courses from public, to semi-private, to private. Hard pass on all that for me.

Defintely with @HipCheck on TopGolf not really being an entry into the game of golf, because it isn't the game of golf. It's games, based on hitting golf balls. And drinking and eating and hitting more golf balls.

I want my TWENTY. PER-CENT. Seriously. Who do I need to talk to about that? I want a distance problem.

Can we post a banner somewhere saying the only thing Bryson changed was him? I feel like that is TOTALLY lost in all the Bryson mania. Keep the equipment out of it.

Jack... Why does every hero have to turn into a crabby, know-it-all, hypocritical **** when they get old?

Good listen, guys. (y)
 
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Great episode. I agree with Dan, that outside of a private club, you have to be prepared for EVERYTHING. You would think people know how to act or at least know the basic rules of etiquette, but they don't. I haven't experienced the hot mess you described in the podcast, but similar situations where I am left scratching my head wondering where basic common sense went.

Top Golf serves its purpose and introduces new people to the game, but that isn't the entry point into playing 18 holes, the rules and etiquette that comes along with it. I think the problem is Top Golf bleeding over to traditional golf and trying to bring that atmosphere/lack of etiquette.

I think Jack needs to pipe down. The trampoline's he's trying to pass off as a fairway this week are not helping his cause. He can slow down the fairways and still keep the greens fast. Agronomy is the best tool to fight whatever the perceived distance issue. It's like saying, too many golfers are making longer putts, ban the mallets and alignment aides bc it's making putting too easy. I also think Bryson is teetering on the line and can do some serious damage to his body without some issues popping up. I am not sure what the timeline is, but when the headline hits that Bryson hurt himself, I'm not sure many will be shocked.
 
Dan, I would love to play a round with you, sometime. I will tell you that I am an untucked heathen. I just dont feel comfortable tucked. I’ll buy you a beer to sooth your umbrage. I’m a high cap, but I think it would be a hoot to tee it up with you.
 
Hamfist said:
Dan, I would love to play a round with you, sometime. I will tell you that I am an untucked heathen. I just dont feel comfortable tucked. I’ll buy you a beer to sooth your umbrage. I’m a high cap, but I think it would be a hoot to tee it up with you.
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You need to play a round one foursome BEHIND Dan. The more crowded the course, the better.
 
Seriously @HipCheck how is it a loophole? You sound like @golfunfiltered :LOL:

I can't wait for next week and the R&A discussion. I agree with @Canadan this week on most points, including the lack of etiquette that exists in this newer generation of golfers it seems. I can't believe Dan didn't make a smart comment to the guys that kept pulling up to his box but I love the golf cart buffer move haha. Speaking of etiquette, at least around here people don't even fix ball marks on greens! Its absurd.
 
jdtox said:
Seriously @HipCheck how is it a loophole? You sound like @golfunfiltered :LOL:
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Loophole - noun. Definition: ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.

What’s so outrageous? 🤷‍♂️

Free drops for pros purposely blasting into grandstands is also a loophole as well. It’s fun to be a pro.
 
HipCheck said:
Loophole - noun. Definition: ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.

What’s so outrageous? 🤷‍♂️

Free drops for pros purposely blasting into grandstands is also a loophole as well. It’s fun to be a pro.
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The free drop grandstand argument is a loophole yes absolutely. Improving ones self to hit the ball farther is not a loophole, not everyone would be able to do what he is doing or they would be.
 
jdtox said:
The free drop grandstand argument is a loophole yes absolutely. Improving ones self to hit the ball farther is not a loophole, not everyone would be able to do what he is doing or they would be.
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The inadequacy in the set of rules I’m talking about isn’t working out, it’s equipment rules. Find the straightest longest combo. Max distance. Minimize curve. Cut every corner. Ask for free drops when necessary.
 
HipCheck said:
The inadequacy in the set of rules I’m talking about isn’t working out, it’s equipment rules. Find the straightest longest combo. Max distance. Minimize curve. Cut every corner. Ask for free drops when necessary.
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Its a SKILL

If there was a rule that stated drivers had to be a certain loft than you could make the argument he is using a loophole. However I'm pretty sure his equipment is conforming, different...yes but that is Bryson. I'm no rules expert but I'm pretty sure there is not, If you want to argue that in general the rules need to be changed in this regard fine but the argument that he is using a loophole in the current rules to his advantage is laughable as is the fact that they need to be changed because of what one single person is doing
 
jdtox said:
If there was a rule that stated drivers had to be a certain loft than you could make the argument he is using a loophole.
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That would actually be breaking a rule, not a loophole. But if your REALLY don’t think the term loophole doesn’t apply then cool. He’s just ‘working the system.’

“Clubs are maxed for distance, but you can’t stop me from working out to hit it further and say FU to your course design.”

I love it. He’s the USGA Distance Study in human form.
 
HipCheck said:
That would actually be breaking a rule, not a loophole. But if your REALLY don’t think the term loophole doesn’t apply then cool. He’s just ‘working the system.’

“Clubs are maxed for distance, but you can’t stop me from working out to hit it further and say FU to your course design.”

I love it. He’s the USGA Distance Study in human form.
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Haha I know I did that on purpose. I'm not trying to argue here but I just think the word loophole getting thrown around by @golfunfiltered initially and then hearing it on your podcast blew my mind. I just don't see what he is doing as a loophole or even bending the rules to his advantage. I think what he is doing is impressive and something that is not sustainable long term.
 
jdtox said:
Haha I know I did that on purpose. I'm not trying to argue here but I just think the word loophole getting thrown around by @golfunfiltered initially and then hearing it on your podcast blew my mind. I just don't see what he is doing as a loophole or even bending the rules to his advantage. I think what he is doing is impressive and something that is not sustainable long term.
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Loophole is probably the wrong word, but here’s how I see it.

Overall, there really isn’t anything preventing any player from going down this same path, aside from desire to do so. Nothing inherently wrong with that. Golf’s governing bodies also have specifications equipment must fall within, or at least not exceed. So there’s that failsafe.

However, the fact that parity exists within the equipment itself, coupled with the variability within the players, and the millions of combinations that result, allows for significant differences in starting point. In other words, all golfers are not equipped the same.

Is there a problem with that? I honestly don’t know. One argument could be that the difference between Golfer A and Golfer B should be skill and talent. The added variable of equipment differences makes it tough to compare.

Of course, equipment variance is seen throughout many sports. Endless examples exist. But there are also sports where a standard is established across the board for anyone who plays it: the ball used (for applicable sports) and the field of play.

In golf, the only standard across the board is the course, which I argue is being threatened due to the lack of a standard everywhere else.
 
golfunfiltered said:
Loophole is probably the wrong word, but here’s how I see it.

Overall, there really isn’t anything preventing any player from going down this same path, aside from desire to do so. Nothing inherently wrong with that. Golf’s governing bodies also have specifications equipment must fall within, or at least not exceed. So there’s that failsafe.

However, the fact that parity exists within the equipment itself, coupled with the variability within the players, and the millions of combinations that result, allows for significant differences in starting point. In other words, all golfers are not equipped the same.

Is there a problem with that? I honestly don’t know. One argument could be that the difference between Golfer A and Golfer B should be skill and talent. The added variable of equipment differences makes it tough to compare.

Of course, equipment variance is seen throughout many sports. Endless examples exist. But there are also sports where a standard is established across the board for anyone who plays it: the ball used (for applicable sports) and the field of play.

In golf, the only standard across the board is the course, which I argue is being threatened due to the lack of a standard everywhere else.
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Are people really asking for everybody to be the same? Should Jordan and Craig Hodges have been the same? Should Tom Brady only be able to throw the same passes as his backup?

If the equipment has a limit, the difference is skill level.
 
JB said:
Are people really asking for everybody to be the same? Should Jordan and Craig Hodges have been the same? Should Tom Brady only be able to throw the same passes as his backup?

If the equipment has a limit, the difference is skill level.
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That’s correct, skill level should be the difference. Equipment variance can be narrowed.
 
golfunfiltered said:
That’s correct, skill level should be the difference. Equipment variance can be narrowed.
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So I am still trying to figure out how anybody could view this as some sort of loophole? Every player features a different skill set. Bryson wanted to improve his, so hit the gym, worked on his long game and here we go.

And if someone does want to view it that way, where was the talk of loophole when Tiger put on a ton of muscle, visited "doctor" Gallea for "treatment" and got much bigger? Or Gary Woodland going in the reverse and dropping 25 lbs.
 
golfunfiltered said:
That’s correct, skill level should be the difference. Equipment variance can be narrowed.
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Sounds to me like you want everyone to play the same ball, the same clubs and the same putter. Lets put all the OEM's out of business and go back to the 1920's then shall we?
 
jdtox said:
Sounds to me like you want everyone to play the same ball, the same clubs and the same putter. Lets put all the OEM's out of business and go back to the 1920's then shall we?
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Or that someone doesn't view hitting it further as a skill.
I look forward to our next meal with Jamie Sadlowski then. :ROFLMAO:
 
JB said:
Or that someone doesn't view hitting it further as a skill.
I look forward to our next meal with Jamie Sadlowski then. :ROFLMAO:
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Oh, it’s definitely a skill. No question.
 
jdtox said:
Sounds to me like you want everyone to play the same ball, the same clubs and the same putter. Lets put all the OEM's out of business and go back to the 1920's then shall we?
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Not at all. Don’t make that jump in logic.

What about instead of rolling back the ball, we max that sucker out and optimize it to a standard? Give it to everyone. Eliminates the distance loss concern, and course designers can know what’s coming at them.
 
jdtox said:
I thought it was a loophole? Make up your mind :ROFLMAO:
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A skill can’t be developed enough in response to a loophole?
 
golfunfiltered said:
Not at all. Don’t make that jump in logic.

What about instead of rolling back the ball, we max that sucker out and optimize it to a standard? Give it to everyone. Eliminates the distance loss concern, and course designers can know what’s coming at them.
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I really don't think courses need to be changed. They have already tried making them longer (Erin Hills for example) and we see how that turned out. Years ago they were making them "Tiger Proof" and that didn't matter either. Every player has a choice on equipment to play from clubs to balls all within the rules, its their skill level that allows them to do certain things better than others.

Even if we did go backwards and standardize everything as you suggest certain players would be better at things than others, thats their skill
 
jdtox said:
I really don't think courses need to be changed. They have already tried making them longer (Erin Hills for example) and we see how that turned out. Years ago they were making them "Tiger Proof" and that didn't matter either. Every player has a choice on equipment to play from clubs to balls all within the rules, its their skill level that allows them to do certain things better than others.

Even if we did go backwards and standardize everything as you suggest certain players would be better at things than others, thats their skill
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Yes sir, I agree with you there. I think at some point golf will go that route.
 
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