Lets chat about Centershaft Putters

[WLG1952]

I'm currently using a center shaft B1 Heavy Putter. I putt pretty well with it. I have another center shaft (sort of) Rail Gun putter that I am also decent with. The fact that they were center shafted had no relevance to my buying them. Never came to mind.

Both of these putters have noticeable heel/toe weighting, which I think reduces face twisting on off center ball contact. This weighting is what makes a center shafted putter work in my opinion.

I really don't have an issue where the shaft is installed on a putter. All I care about is hitting straight putts on my chosen line.

 

[jdtox]

So im curious though. Why do you think it failed. Obvioulsy you need some toe hang if you think you do. But do you think its a setup thing? hand positioning thing? genuinely curious as this has been a similar experience for me. Seems like i can roll it well for weeks....then all of a sudden, POOF. She gone. lol

I don't know if its stroke or setup. I had been rolling it well, like seeing the ball with a line roll end over end beautifully... then yeah...gone. I was pulling everything and my speed got way off. It wasn't good. I felt like everything had to be perfect for success I don't know... Maybe I just needed more time with it but in hindsight putting it in play for a tournament after only a short time with it wasn't one of my best ideas. Though @KY Golfer sure is happy about it haha

 

[Reframmellator]

I've gamed one almost on and off for almost 15 years, when a fitter watched me try six different putters and said something like, "I won't go into the technical details, but that putter (center-shafted Ping G5i CRAZ-E) fits your stroke best." I moved on from that to a Cleveland TFI I won here, and while I loved it, I couldn't putt worth spit. I attributed it to the center shaft (or not), and bought my current CS SeeMore on eBay. I flirted with a CB Odyssey Works Versa Tank Cruiser, heel shafted and face balanced, and putted almost as well as with the SeeMore. So for me, where 10 is my best putting and 1 is my worst, a CS+FB is a 10, and a Heel Shaft + FB is an 8. Unless I'm missing something, CS putters are face balanced so I did not include a CS + toe hang putter. For me, it's gotta be face balanced at a minimum, but ideally a center shafted putter.

 

[Nerdy]

Not something I've ever really tried. I think it just looks weird to my eye. I should probably give them a chance before I just write them off though.

 

[PKorf]

I don't know if its stroke or setup. I had been rolling it well, like seeing the ball with a line roll end over end beautifully... then yeah...gone. I was pulling everything and my speed got way off. It wasn't good. I felt like everything had to be perfect for success I don't know... Maybe I just needed more time with it but in hindsight putting it in play for a tournament after only a short time with it wasn't one of my best ideas. Though @KY Golfer sure is happy about it haha

Interesting you were pulling it. Thats been my miss as well. Not ti mention distance control has been an ongoing issue regardless of putter.

 

[PKorf]

I've gamed one almost on and off for almost 15 years, when a fitter watched me try six different putters and said something like, "I won't go into the technical details, but that putter (center-shafted Ping G5i CRAZ-E) fits your stroke best." I moved on from that to a Cleveland TFI I won here, and while I loved it, I couldn't putt worth spit. I attributed it to the center shaft (or not), and bought my current CS SeeMore on eBay. I flirted with a CB Odyssey Works Versa Tank Cruiser, heel shafted and face balanced, and putted almost as well as with the SeeMore. So for me, where 10 is my best putting and 1 is my worst, a CS+FB is a 10, and a Heel Shaft + FB is an 8. Unless I'm missing something, CS putters are face balanced so I did not include a CS + toe hang putter. For me, it's gotta be face balanced at a minimum, but ideally a center shafted putter.

Great point. Id say MOSt are face balanced and this is why i lean towards them. But, there are a few out there that have some toe hang. Those can stay far away from me as possible lol

 

[jdtox]

Interesting you were pulling it. Thats been my miss as well. Not ti mention distance control has been an ongoing issue regardless of putter.

From my understanding a little toe hang helps keep the face open longer which is why I said I think I need some toe hang at least under pressure haha

 

[Snickerdog]

I have tried one. Don't care for the looks of it at all, and the sound sounded dead to me. So no bueno for me.

 

[PKorf]

I have tried one. Don't care for the looks of it at all, and the sound sounded dead to me. So no bueno for me.

try the Wingman......the last thing that sounds like is "dead" lol.

 

[JonD]

Is this where the meetings are?

I gamed a Seemore for a good long time and really enjoyed the just off center shafted models (just a touch towards the heel so you can have an alignment line), having some pretty good success with them. That led me to buy my Bettinardi SS12, that I still have today. It's currently on the workbench waiting for me to get around to putting a new shaft on it, but it's part of my regular rotation. Bettinardi has offered similar shapes over the different model years as well. Never putted with a CS mallet, but the wide blade/mid mallets have worked out pretty well for me over the years.

Last putter fitting I had specified a face balanced, full offset putter, which I've mostly been sticking to. Like I said though, I definitely roll the SS12 from time to time and would not be against picking up something with a similar shape/size that has a different face as I find the hex-FIT face to be extremely soft.

I've tried them a couple times, even as recently as this years MC and while I thought it was working well, it definitely failed me at a critical time. I need some toe hang there is no question in my mind anymore.

My Betti SS12 has about 45˚ of toe hang. Maybe the best of both worlds if you can find something similar?

 

[donny475]

I have never been able to get comfortable with a CS. Not sure why, i have dabbled with them at the PGASS, but the best for me is in either a longish neck or Flow neck has always been good for me

 

[Gyro25]

Isnt it crazy how fast we tend to get rid of something that "was great for our stroke"......ESPECIALLY pertaining to putting?

The CS was 'better' than the spider for me, not necessarily great. Even the toulon is "good" and better for me, not necessarily great. I have to not be cheap and get a fitting for once finally haha

 

[Stemmy66]

Sorry.....I should be so remiss if i dont mention the TourEdge Wingman putters. That, if it wasnt for the sound of them, would probably have a permanent spot in my bag.

I've tried this out and honestly didn't like the feel

 

[PKorf]

The CS was 'better' than the spider for me, not necessarily great. Even the toulon is "good" and better for me, not necessarily great. I have to not be cheap and get a fitting for once finally haha

HAHA its like your describing me.....to me...in a thread i created to get insight and discussion going apparently about myself.

 

[PKorf]

I've tried this out and honestly didn't like the feel

it all boils down to feel / sound for me. Love the shape. The look. The setup. I just cant digest the sound.

 

[Gyro25]

HAHA its like your describing me.....to me...in a thread i created to get insight and discussion going apparently about myself.

 

[PKorf]

Is this where the meetings are?

I gamed a Seemore for a good long time and really enjoyed the just off center shafted models (just a touch towards the heel so you can have an alignment line), having some pretty good success with them. That led me to buy my Bettinardi SS12, that I still have today. It's currently on the workbench waiting for me to get around to putting a new shaft on it, but it's part of my regular rotation. Bettinardi has offered similar shapes over the different model years as well. Never putted with a CS mallet, but the wide blade/mid mallets have worked out pretty well for me over the years.

Last putter fitting I had specified a face balanced, full offset putter, which I've mostly been sticking to. Like I said though, I definitely roll the SS12 from time to time and would not be against picking up something with a similar shape/size that has a different face as I find the hex-FIT face to be extremely soft.



My Betti SS12 has about 45˚ of toe hang. Maybe the best of both worlds if you can find something similar?

Yes. Welcome to the support group.

 

[BigDill]

It is as if this thread speaks to my soul. I have played a CS putter for a long while now. My first ever putter was a Nike Unitized Techno SC mallet. I went away from a CS putter, but them hopped back in when THP sent me a Ping Sigma 2 Kushin C and that was a fantastic putter for me, and if I am being honest, should probably still be in my bag (I still have it as my back-up). I am currently playing a fanci boi SWAG Savage Too CS and have mostly been rolling it well. I love the look and feel, it's a compact mid-mallet shape with a lot of weight to it.

I think way more people would benefit from one than actually give it a chance. No one thinks twice about using a straight pool cue to hit a ball, but can't seem to get their head around doing the exact same at a 90 degree angle. For me, the aesthetics of being able to look straight down the shaft to the ball in a single line and contact point helps me make good contact. I try to miss slightly towards the toe, if anything. Aim small, miss small I suppose. In the Ping Sigma 2 thread, I took some time to post about the history of CS putters and why I think they are overlooked, and who may benefit from them. I'll see if I can dig it out.

I also have a TE Wingman CS still, and I personally think that while the sound isn't the best, its also unfairly maligned. The roll it puts on the ball is exceptional, in my opinion. I just did not care for the mallet shape, and wanted to give the SWAG a long term test (and I am glad I did, because it had some moments where it was on thin ice). But the Wingman is a darn fine putter, especially at its price point. I would be happy to send mine along to someone who is willing to give it an honest try and post some thoughts about using a CS putter.

 

[donny475]

It is as if this thread speaks to my soul. I have played a CS putter for a long while now. My first ever putter was a Nike Unitized Techno SC mallet. I went away from a CS putter, but them hopped back in when THP sent me a Ping Sigma 2 Kushin C and that was a fantastic putter for me, and if I am being honest, should probably still be in my bag (I still have it as my back-up). I am currently playing a fanci boi SWAG Savage Too CS and have mostly been rolling it well. I love the look and feel, it's a compact mid-mallet shape with a lot of weight to it.

I think way more people would benefit from one than actually give it a chance. No one thinks twice about using a straight pool cue to hit a ball, but can't seem to get their head around doing the exact same at a 90 degree angle. For me, the aesthetics of being able to look straight down the shaft to the ball in a single line and contact point helps me make good contact. I try to miss slightly towards the toe, if anything. Aim small, miss small I suppose. In the Ping Sigma 2 thread, I took some time to post about the history of CS putters and why I think they are overlooked, and who may benefit from them. I'll see if I can dig it out.

I also have a TE Wingman CS still, and I personally think that while the sound isn't the best, its also unfairly maligned. The roll it puts on the ball is exceptional, in my opinion. I just did not care for the mallet shape, and wanted to give the SWAG a long term test (and I am glad I did, because it had some moments where it was on thin ice). But the Wingman is a darn fine putter, especially at its price point. I would be happy to send mine along to someone who is willing to give it an honest try and post some thoughts about using a CS putter.

Your pool cue analogy makes sense to me, I guess no one should make a judgement on a few rolled at the local shop as a full fledged evaluation. Just hard for me to spend the cabbage for a new one and stick to it for a while. I am a great putter and who knows could be better...now you got me pondering

 

[TCB2010]

It's something I was for sure I needed and found out I was wrong. I had recently tried the phantom x 6 str and every time I lined up I felt like the head turned into the left, my eyes were just not behind the line what so ever. I missed left terribly, then I turned the grip a little to the right and pushed everything.
I Was dead set on thinking I have a straight back and straight forward putting stroke, and to be honest you really have to know for sure if that is indeed your stroke imo..
A few years ago I dabbled with the golo s and way before that I had a ton of great feedback from the original futura which made me think about the phantom recently.
The phantom experience was dreadful and one I'd like to forget.

 

[fuffle master]

I have never tried a center shafted putter, so I can't say anything for or against it. However, I like the idea of the face balanced and I typically put with a face-balanced putter with little to no toe hang.

Next season or during the winter to practice I am looking to go with an arm lock putter.

 

[BigDill]

I found the link I was referring to, and I'll quote it below for those that don't want to go back and find it, but the link to it is here: https://www.thehackersparadise.com/...tters-bring-adjustability.110604/post-8211252. I talk a lot about my experience with the Kushin C and it honestly makes me want to throw it back in the bag for a while. I think it was the best putting I have ever done. Anyway, the post I am referring to about the Ping Sigma 2 Kushin C is below. what I didn't talk about here, but I may have somewhere else, is that if you don't have much arch in your putting stroke, a CS putter would probably be a really good option for you. No doubt it's weird to get used to at first, but once you get comfortable hitting it, I think you would be surprised at the results.

After my 54 hole golf-a-palooza two weekends ago, I have not had much opportunity to get the Ping Sigma 2 Kushin C out to the course due to holiday and work obligations. But I have been able to roll a few balls on my indoor mat and have continued to love the decision to move back to a center shafted putter.

I keep thinking about a buddy of mine who during our last round was taking a look my Kushin C, seemingly perplexed as to why I would prefer the center shaft over the more popular goose neck design. I told him to give it a try without thinking about it, and he sunk a 15 footer like it was nothing. He then proceeded to miss the next 5 putts he tried with it. Personally, I think that a lot of what happened was a result of his thinking. When he had no expectations, his natural stroke was right in line. But when he was overthinking about having an “unorthodox” putter fit him better than his goose neck Scotty blade, he began to strike the ball off center.

This got me to thinking about why center shafted putters seem to have such a stigma. So I did a bit of google research and came across some interesting information about their history. For example, you know who won the 1999 US Open using a center shafted putter? Payne Stewart. Perhaps you have heard of him. In fact, center shafted putters were apparently all the rage in the 60’s and 70’s. But just like bellbottoms and vinyl records, the passage of time has moved center shafted putters to the status of “niche”. According to the information I found, much of this shift in popularity was the result of, ironically, Ping’s introduction of the Anser, effectively the cousin of the Kushin C.

The Anser is undoubtedly a great putter and has been wildly popular for a large number of years. But just because most people like it does not mean that there isn’t something better FOR YOU out there. Surely, if you asked me for a recommendation for a new car and I blindly replied “Toyota Camry” without learning a bit about your needs, you would discount my opinion, in spite of the Camry being the best selling passenger car by volume. Point being, just because one size may fit most, it does not mean one size fits all.

Another fun fact I learned through my research: Bob Bettinardi himself has used a center shafted putter for past few years. Crazy to think that a person who can literally use any style, shape or type of putter uses a face balanced center shafted putter, but yet he does.

After using a center stated mallet for a number of years, then changing to a heel balanced blade putter, and now back to a center shaft mid mallet, I can certainly feel the difference. The biggest benefit I have seen so far is the size of the sweet spot, with even the miss hits tending to travel close to the intended distance. So far, my biggest dislike is that my ball is tending to skip slightly on impact, which is indicative of me striking down on the ball a bit too much. However, I am still getting a consistent and tight roll when it gets going, so I am not sure how much it is impacting my results, if at all.

If you are open to it, I recommend giving the Kushin C chance to change your mind about what a putter should feel like. Be patient and give it a fair chance, as it’s face balanced feel is certainly different than the more popular heel balanced set up. If you do that, you may be just as surprised at the results as I am that people still buy vinyl records.

 

[KEV]

El Presidente for the Center Shaft Putter Support Group reporting for duty!

I effing love center shaft putters. There's something about it that feels extremely natural to me. In my mind it makes sense to have the shaft right behind or near the sweet spot and where the ball is positioned. I also feel like my left and right miss is less than something with a toe hang. I'm sure this is just my goofy mind at work but it seems like a good idea to have the shaft inserted in to the same spot that the impact of the ball and face is going to occur.

I have had AMAZING Success with a centershafted putter, and will probably go back to the center shafted Toulon Indianapolis before too long.

I know Swag makes a center shafted option, but from our discussions at the Odyssey event Luke Williams explained that everyone wants all options but they rarely stop making an item because they sell too much of them, usually they don't offer it because they don't sell nearly enough to make it pencil out.

My center shaft Indianapolis may be my favorite putter I've ever owned. It's not the best sounding putter ever and my buddies give me nonstop crap about the look but it sets up soooo good with the center shaft setup. It's one putter I can confidently say I will never sell.

Mannnnnnn Kev has me looking hard at an Indy........gotta like that head shape, but if you do it alligns so well behind the ball.

I'm not mad that you haven't bought one yet, I'm just disappointed.

 

[jfrigo1003]

I got a great deal on center shafted Scotty phantom 6 str w/ stability tour shaft. I've always been intrigued by the design and theory behind center shafted, but never cared how they look. I still dont like the look but damn am I putting very consistently on my BirdieBall green. Out of my 5 current putters, the center shaft continuously makes more putts and it drives me crazy bc I want to sell it lol

 

[Templet0n]

currently using the most center of center shafted putters in a LAB putter. Typically I think center shafted putters are kinda ugly, but I do honestly think it makes the most sense. The shaft is right at the ball. We are all groomed from birth to kind of line all these things up. So I could see a center shafted putter working better for most people. They are just less aesthetically pleasing.