First Look: Callaway Apex 21 Irons

[MH]

What is the reason for using parallel shafts? Is there an advantage for Callaway? Why not just use taper tip shafts for all the sets?

 

[McLovin]

What is the reason for using parallel shafts? Is there an advantage for Callaway? Why not just use taper tip shafts for all the sets?

i too would like to know this!

 

[Tevenor]

What is the reason for using parallel shafts? Is there an advantage for Callaway? Why not just use taper tip shafts for all the sets?

i too would like to know this!

I can't speak for Callaway directly but as a general rule, parallel shafts are easier to cut / fit to length for most golfer's profile needs. You take a standard length shaft, and cut off to whatever length and then you can place whatever head ( 5i or 7i or pw ) on it and the shaft will perform as expected. Taper tips are made to fit a specific length since you can't trim them at the tip and as such tend to be shafts targeted for players wanting individual characteristics on each shaft. Those players would tend to gravitate to the more players irons in general, so hence the Pros are taper tip.

When you go to a combo set, you need to pick which shaft type makes sense, and since a combo set in the Apex / Apex Pro range would target a certain skillgolfer, going parallel opens up the options on shafts wider than making Apex tooled to accept taper tip shafts. Taper tips allow for things like continues weight shafts ( 3i shaft weighs same as PW shaft even though its longer ) vs parallel which will naturally get lighter as you cut more off to get to length.

Just my 2 cents. I am sure of the THP staff folks could way in as well.

 

[noodle3872]

I can see the Dart graphite being parallel tip but every other offering should be taper tip. Using parallel tip means the 3i shaft will weigh more than the PW shaft which is far from ideal.

 

[CobraX51]

I am still sad you did not even try to hit the Pro at all, but you know what you like. Did you even hold one to get a feel for the top line, etc?

I was suspect of the super light graphite shafts and you confirmed what I thought. It is odd to me they are not offering anything heavier and really pushing a lot of people away that would otherwise try graphite if they offered at least 100+ gram something.

But I imagine they will have upcharge options and why not make money where you can. But that is the idea of the demo day to get you interested in buying and not offering a range of weights is just silly.

I did not even look at the top line of the Pro, just the cavity design which I really like, the best stamping of any Apex model to me.

The graphite shaft I was expecting more club head speed since it was light but it felt like jello to me. I didn't strike the ball bad either it just didn't go anywhere, nowhere near the distance of the Elevate Shafts, but hey, what may not work for one person may work better for someone else.

 

[Thornton Melon]

So a club addict here looking for a little help - and I am going to ask the Callaway team about this as well.

I would buy the combo set in Apex/Pros except I want the 7 iron to be a Pro and I prefer the lofts of the pro in the 7-G range. So I have to basically self blend the set. Would the assumption be that I'd basically bend the Apex 5 and 6 iron 2 strong and get at it that way?

 

[threeonezero]

I tried calling the Callaway online orders numbers to see if I could get the 105 MMT in stiff here in Canada for the Apex Pros and no luck. I was told that 105 MMT stiff isn't an option that they're seeing on their end. Guess I'll be playing the 95 MMT's instead.

 

[MH]

I can't speak for Callaway directly but as a general rule, parallel shafts are easier to cut / fit to length for most golfer's profile needs. You take a standard length shaft, and cut off to whatever length and then you can place whatever head ( 5i or 7i or pw ) on it and the shaft will perform as expected. Taper tips are made to fit a specific length since you can't trim them at the tip and as such tend to be shafts targeted for players wanting individual characteristics on each shaft. Those players would tend to gravitate to the more players irons in general, so hence the Pros are taper tip.

When you go to a combo set, you need to pick which shaft type makes sense, and since a combo set in the Apex / Apex Pro range would target a certain skillgolfer, going parallel opens up the options on shafts wider than making Apex tooled to accept taper tip shafts. Taper tips allow for things like continues weight shafts ( 3i shaft weighs same as PW shaft even though its longer ) vs parallel which will naturally get lighter as you cut more off to get to length.

Just my 2 cents. I am sure of the THP staff folks could way in as well.

Thanks for the detailed response, this further solidifies my questioning as to why would companies still use parallel shafts? Taper tip shafts are designed for specific irons and you get the same shaft in all your irons using parallel? That doesn’t seem like it helps the golfer but I’m not sure I would even be able to tell. For example on Mitsubishi’s website the mmt in taper has different specs and launch characteristics vs the parallel version so which one is in the fitting cart? I hit both the pro and apex 7 iron with the same shaft but don’t know which one it was. If ordering the combo set I assume you would get the parallel mmt version? Can you request the taper version? I’m probably thinking this through a little too much but just can’t wrap my head around why the consumer wouldn’t want taper tip shafts

 

[ArmyGolf]

Thanks for the detailed response, this further solidifies my questioning as to why would companies still use parallel shafts? Taper tip shafts are designed for specific irons and you get the same shaft in all your irons using parallel? That doesn’t seem like it helps the golfer but I’m not sure I would even be able to tell. For example on Mitsubishi’s website the mmt in taper has different specs and launch characteristics vs the parallel version so which one is in the fitting cart? I hit both the pro and apex 7 iron with the same shaft but don’t know which one it was. If ordering the combo set I assume you would get the parallel mmt version? Can you request the taper version? I’m probably thinking this through a little too much but just can’t wrap my head around why the consumer wouldn’t want taper tip shafts

Inventory, costs etc.

 

[Tevenor]

Thanks for the detailed response, this further solidifies my questioning as to why would companies still use parallel shafts? Taper tip shafts are designed for specific irons and you get the same shaft in all your irons using parallel? That doesn’t seem like it helps the golfer but I’m not sure I would even be able to tell. For example on Mitsubishi’s website the mmt in taper has different specs and launch characteristics vs the parallel version so which one is in the fitting cart? I hit both the pro and apex 7 iron with the same shaft but don’t know which one it was. If ordering the combo set I assume you would get the parallel mmt version? Can you request the taper version? I’m probably thinking this through a little too much but just can’t wrap my head around why the consumer wouldn’t want taper tip shafts

@ArmyGolf nailed it. Cost is the simplest answer. Buying thousands of a single shaft approach versus having to buy X amount of 3 iron shafts, X amount of 4 iron shafts, etc. etc. is a cost conversation.

 

[GolfFest]

So a club addict here looking for a little help - and I am going to ask the Callaway team about this as well.

I would buy the combo set in Apex/Pros except I want the 7 iron to be a Pro and I prefer the lofts of the pro in the 7-G range. So I have to basically self blend the set. Would the assumption be that I'd basically bend the Apex 5 and 6 iron 2 strong and get at it that way?

If you are blending them yourself with 7-a in the pros I would think you would need to bend the standard weaker instead of stronger to gap better with the pros.

 

[Chef23]

Second day trying these and I must say the new Apex irons are impressive. The entire line really. As for the Apex, less offset than expected. Longer than expected, distance wise. The Pros have stolen my heart though.

Any idea on how the Apex 21 compares to the Apex 19 for offset?

 

[dacatalyst41]

Any idea on how the Apex 21 compares to the Apex 19 for offset?

I didn’t compare side by side but after hitting the Apex Pro 21 and the Apex 21, the offset of the latter isn’t bad at all. I didn’t get a side by side picture unfortunately

 

[Misike]

If you are blending them yourself with 7-a in the pros I would think you would need to bend the standard weaker instead of stronger to gap better with the pros.

I may be wrong, or have it mixed up, but I think bending it weaker decreases bounce, and stronger would increase bounce. Depending on what type of swing you have, that could play into how you want to bend it (ie: exposing the leading edge might not be good for some swing types, but ok for others). I remember hearing Dnves and Nate talk about this on the Apex fitting room podcast.

 

[Chef23]

I may be wrong, or have it mixed up, but I think bending it weaker decreases bounce, and stronger would increase bounce. Depending on what type of swing you have, that could play into how you want to bend it (ie: exposing the leading edge might not be good for some swing types, but ok for others). I remember hearing Dnves and Nate talk about this on the Apex fitting room podcast.

I think you have it flipped. Bending weaker adds bounce and stronger decreases it.

 

[Thornton Melon]

I meant two weak...I just dont hit long irons consistently enough to try and game a more demanding long iron but from 7 down I'd prefer the spin and consistency of the pros.

 

[ranger1989]

I have the opposite problem. I’m worried about the new pros not spinning enough.

This is why I asked about the differences earlier in the thread...I can't afford to lose spin. Based off comments I'm sticking with the X Forged CB. Don't get me wrong the Apex Pros look great but will more than likely not be any better than my current set.

 

[Jiffypop]

Any idea on how the Apex 21 compares to the Apex 19 for offset?

This is what i see numerically

Callaway Apex Pro '21			Callaway Apex Pro '19
loft	lie	offset	loft	lie	offset
23	60.5	3.43	23	60	3.40
26	61	3.18	26	60.5	3.20
29	61.5	3.05	29	61	3.00
33	62	2.80	33	61.5	2.80
37	62.5	2.54	37	62	2.50
41	63	2.16	41	62.5	2.20
45	63.5	1.90	45	63	1.90
50	63.5	1.65	50	-	1.70
			-	-	-

 

[GolfFest]

This is why I asked about the differences earlier in the thread...I can't afford to lose spin. Based off comments I'm sticking with the X Forged CB. Don't get me wrong the Apex Pros look great but will more than likely not be any better than my current set.

I’ve tried to find a head to head comparison without much luck yet. I think when I go test the new pros I need to bring my 7 iron with me.

I love the look of the Apex Pros and would really love for them to work. I love the idea of more distance and forgiveness but am not willing to give up much in the way of consistency and control.

 

[Chef23]

I meant two weak...I just dont hit long irons consistently enough to try and game a more demanding long iron but from 7 down I'd prefer the spin and consistency of the pros.

I play the A19s and am a decent golfer. The consistency and spin of the A19s is excellent. I get the love for the pros they are beautiful but from a consistency perspective the A19s and I am sure the A21s will give nothing away. If you want to say you prefer the look of the Pros or a bit less offset I get that but don't let the consistency scare you away at all.

 

[Tevenor]

I play the A19s and am a decent golfer. The consistency and spin of the A19s is excellent. I get the love for the pros they are beautiful but from a consistency perspective the A19s and I am sure the A21s will give nothing away. If you want to say you prefer the look of the Pros or a bit less offset I get that but don't let the consistency scare you away at all.

The message we got from Callaway product team is they are seeing Apex 19 level forgiveness in the Apex Pro 21. The added benefit of AI face spreading the off center hit love. But the proof will always be in the pudding. Go hit them and see for yourself!

 

[Elmave]

The message we got from Callaway product team is they are seeing Apex 19 level forgiveness in the Apex Pro 21. The added benefit of AI face spreading the off center hit love. But the proof will always be in the pudding. Go hit them and see for yourself!

Is this saying the Apex Pro 21 has the forgiveness of the standard Apex 19 making it much more forgiving than the Apex Pro 19 ? If thats the case everything i have read seems to indicate the Apex 21 standard has taken a great iron the Apex 19 and found a way to significantly improve it. Wasnt thinking about an iron change this year but every time i come to this thread. ..........

 

[Thornton Melon]

Yes that is what folks are saying in the thread. My instinct here is that the Apex standard is a nice improvement over the 19 but nothing that would make you jump at it. The DCF brings a whole new group of players into the fold for Apex with a great distance iron.

The Pro I think can be played by anyone who gamed the Apex 19 standard, which is amazeballs because that 19 was a players distance kind of club - if you could put that into the pro package like they are saying...yeah thats something you have to think about.

 

[mpeterson]

I can't speak for Callaway directly but as a general rule, parallel shafts are easier to cut / fit to length for most golfer's profile needs. You take a standard length shaft, and cut off to whatever length and then you can place whatever head ( 5i or 7i or pw ) on it and the shaft will perform as expected. Taper tips are made to fit a specific length since you can't trim them at the tip and as such tend to be shafts targeted for players wanting individual characteristics on each shaft. Those players would tend to gravitate to the more players irons in general, so hence the Pros are taper tip.

When you go to a combo set, you need to pick which shaft type makes sense, and since a combo set in the Apex / Apex Pro range would target a certain skillgolfer, going parallel opens up the options on shafts wider than making Apex tooled to accept taper tip shafts. Taper tips allow for things like continues weight shafts ( 3i shaft weighs same as PW shaft even though its longer ) vs parallel which will naturally get lighter as you cut more off to get to length.

Just my 2 cents. I am sure of the THP staff folks could way in as well.

You have to trim from both ends on a parallel set - not just the butt end. Taper tips just get trimmed from the butt end.

I think the main benefit is inventory control, you don't have to keep track of shafts at each length. With the caveat that some golfers have been shown to play better with descending weight shafts. But that's a fitting parameter, and not a blanket "advantage".

 

[Tevenor]

You have to trim from both ends on a parallel set - not just the butt end. Taper tips just get trimmed from the butt end.

Hmmmm. I thought that's what I wrote. You made it more succinct though.