Are Drivers being Sold Today Maxed Out?

[fupresti]

Every new release ignites a debate amongst many about what advances are "really" being made to increase distance for amateur and pro golfers. Of course, the OEM's feed the fire with claims of added yards that many seem to discount. There seems to be some belief that drivers have not really had significant improvements since 2003 when the USGA and R&A brought in a unified standard to limit the maximum amount of COR a clubface could have.The R&A and the USGA have set the COR limit at 0.83 meaning that a maximum of 83% of energy can be transferred to the ball at impact.

But did you know that drivers are tested using a different metric now?" In 2004 the USGA and R&A introduced a testing method called CT, or Characteristic time". CT is what golf's governing bodies (the USGA and R&A) measure to determine whether drivers conform to the limits within the Rules of Golf on "spring-like effect." Most simply put, characteristic time is the amount of time, measured in microseconds, there is contact between the clubface of a driver and the ball used in the testing apparatus. This apparatus is portable and allows for drivers to be tested in the field.

The CT limit for drivers is 239 microseconds. The governing bodies allow a tolerance of 18 microseconds, so as long as the characteristic time measures at 257 microseconds (239 plus the tolerance of 18), a driver is ruled conforming for spring-like effect. A CT reading above 257 means the driver is non-conforming.


This begs the question, are drivers today maxed out using this testing method? With such precise calculations used by the ruling bodies, and with improved manufacturing and design principles being used by OEM's, is there still room to "max out" a driver?

 

[McLovin]

for dead nuts center strikes? i think so. but for misses, i think there's more work to be done.

 

[mikeg_74]

Based on what you wrote regarding the measuring with CT and the various materials to make driver heads now a days, i would say drivers have plenty of room to max out. Now I am not sure from an engineering or design perspective that achieving the 257 microsecond limit, if it is at a cost with other parts of the driver design. Durability of the face comes to mind.

 

[mjkladis]

Are Drivers being Sold Today "Maxed Out"

Are Drivers being Sold Today "Maxed Out"

I believe drivers are completely maxed out.....in the center of the face. If you can strike the center of the club face every time, then you might not see too much difference in ball speed from one driver to the next.
Look at most of the tech that’s out currently. It’s all mainly aimed towards retaining ball speed when you stray from the center of the face.


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[ntanygd760]

Ball speed is close to maxed out on center hits, although I am sure someone will come up with workarounds to get a mph or 2 like jailbreak. That doesn't mean distance is.

 

[JB]

When people are saying that "yes in the center", do you guys believe all brands are maxing them out?

 

[ntanygd760]

I haven't hit enough different drivers to say for sure. If I had to guess the companies are spending more on r&d if they think they can gain say 4 mph on the toe compared with the same investment to gain 0.5 mph on a center hit. That said I am sure they are trying to at least match epic on center hits, assuming that is the current leader.

That probably doesn't answer your question all that well though just my rambling thoughts on the issue.

 

[aljaklaw]

they keep telling us how the faces are "hotter than ever" and "at the legal limit"

 

[fupresti]

they keep telling us how the faces are "hotter than ever" and "at the legal limit"

No OEM is gonna outright say "we could do better, we just havent got there yet"

 

[ASN21]

Yes. I do believe they are currently maxed out.

 

[-CRW-]

I believe all brands are trying to max out their drives, but with the tolerances some will be a little hotter than others even among the same make/model head.

You can find that out spending a few minutes looking at tour issue heads on eBay.

 

[ntanygd760]

Plus there are tolerances in production so I am sure if you test 15 of the exact same driver 1 of them might be better than the rest.

 

[jim54]

So do you feel the "tour issue" heads are hotter as a rule? or just better QC on them to get as close as possible to max?

I believe all brands are trying to max out their drives, but with the tolerances some will be a little hotter than others even among the same make/model head.

You can find that out spending a few minutes looking at tour issue heads on eBay.

 

[fupresti]

I believe all brands are trying to max out their drives, but with the tolerances some will be a little hotter than others even among the same make/model head.

You can find that out spending a few minutes looking at tour issue heads on eBay.

Here is an example of 1 I just found showing a CT of 242. If Tour Issue isn't precise enough to hit the max allowed I would say there is still room to increase performance?

 

[McLovin]

When people are saying that "yes in the center", do you guys believe all brands are maxing them out?

no. i think some OEMs are damn close to being maxed at center (remember that drive i hit this weekend?!), but others are behind.

what’s interesting is why are the others behind? the conspiracy theorist in me thinks it’s to provide room for future iterations.


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[rallo]

I highly doubt we are maxed out... The way they are able to manipulate weight, spin, and launch leads me to believe that they can continue to make a longer, more forgiving driver.

It's not like measuring CT is new... I feel like they have made steady improvements each year since that became the standard.

IMO recent shaft and ball tech has bumped driver performance immensely as well

 

[Paladin]

I'm willing to bet that once you get around the 240+ CT mark feel becomes as big a player as anything else. Not everyone wants a club that feels like they're hitting a cinder-block even if they got a couple more yards. If you told me a new driver would add five yards of carry but even hitting the button would feel and sound like a gunshot I don't think I'd game it.

As for drivers on tour, I don't think a tour player is sweating another 2 or 3 percent increase in CT. When your club head speed is 115+ I think it doesn't matter as much.

 

[ntanygd760]

I highly doubt we are maxed out... The way they are able to manipulate weight, spin, and launch leads me to believe that they can continue to make a longer, more forgiving driver.

It's not like measuring CT is new... I feel like they have made steady improvements each year since that became the standard.

IMO recent shaft and ball tech has bumped driver performance immensely as well

That is where the gains are, not so much ball speed. But 10 yards farther is 10 yards farther even if it is the same ball speed

 

[Molten]

When people are saying that "yes in the center", do you guys believe all brands are maxing them out?

Highly doubt all brands are, no. Saving a few bucks wins out with some companies as I'm sure you know. And I doubt we are maxed out in all aspects of design but any major changes will be few and far between.

 

[-CRW-]

So do you feel the "tour issue" heads are hotter as a rule? or just better QC on them to get as close as possible to max?

Not necessarily, but it’s a way to ensure you’re getting as good of a CT as you can find. Most guys I know that have purchased tour issue heads saw gains in distance over what they typically expect (3 wood or driver) and end up swearing by them.

Here is an example of 1 I just found showing a CT of 242. If Tour Issue isn't precise enough to hit the max allowed I would say there is still room to increase performance?

I think that’s a fair statement. But I wonder if it’s less about the club head designs and more about the manufacturing processes. But if the manufacturing improves does the allowed tolerance get tightened in response?

 

[jim54]

I had a call away tour issue driver head and to me it was no different, but I most likely did not hit it hard enough to matter.

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[Jaymo37]

To some degree, I think all the "major" EOM's are close to if not maxed on center hits. How much they're willing to risk by living on the high side of the 18 microsecond tolerance probably varies pretty widely.

That being said, to the tour issue argument, I'm not convinced any tour player is playing the equipment as we are. Meaning, once it's been hit, I don't believe it's eligible for testing. I would bet that faces are rolled, shaved etc. to get every inch of distance out of those clubs. I wouldn't be surprised if it was fairly common practice, and the governing bodies turned a blind eye because distance creates excitement and increases ratings. (Think baseball during the 90's)

 

[Daddio]

Drivers (as a whole) aren't close to maxed out IMO. Really just that one parameter, CT, is pretty close to max. But there are just so many very smart folks (working for every one of the major OEMs) finding a myriad of other ways to boost performance without exceeding CT. I don't see any reason to think we're close to a point where we won't still see steady evolutionary and revolutionary advancements in drivers (as a whole).

 

[RNG]

I think there is still room to improve the driver and especially the shafts!

 

[awtryau89]

Here is an example of 1 I just found showing a CT of 242. If Tour Issue isn't precise enough to hit the max allowed I would say there is still room to increase performance?

I would have to look it up but Tom Wishon had calculations for the difference between the .239 and .257. It was so miniscule it would equate to less than a foot in carry distance for a 100mph swing. His point was that the USGA and R&A wouldn't have allowed the tolerance if it made an appreciable difference.

I agree with most on here about the head being maxed out. I think we are at a point where the face is maxed and we may see very small advances across a wider area but so much more is in play than the CT. Most companies have moved on to aerodynamics to increase swing speed to get higher ball speeds.

I play a good bit with a very good amateur player that made it through Mid Am qualifying. He plays a 917 D2 driver he has been supremely fitted for. He was courted by Callaway this year. He went to ECPC and was fitted for an Epic and used his gamer during the fitting for the baseline. They couldn't beat it. They only matched it. In the end, he went back to the 917 after using the Cally for a couple of weeks. He told me the last time we played that they all go the same for him when he is fitted right. At that point it all comes down to feel and comfort level.