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Dialing In Stance Distance from the Ball

GolfLivesMatter

GolfLivesMatter

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I don't know about other folks, but it seems over the years I've become accustomed to standing closer to the ball at address. "Closer" is a relative term I know, but I looked at old setup photos and I"m like 2 inches closer. I know this has caused a steeper swing which can trap the hands behind my body which can result in blocks, early extension, and ridiculous flipping of the right wrist. It's obvious now I can't rotate into the ball by standing closer, so I swing more "in front of myself". The reason (I believe) I moved closer was to "protect" my lower back from having to retain spine angle, which may be the exact opposite of what I should be doing. It was IMO a subconscious migration over the years, probably after getting back to golf after picking-up a box at some point, then it stuck with me.

The question is how do you calculate how far to stand away from the ball? This is a tough question I know. Most folks say "where your arms hang" which makes total sense, but where my arms hang depends upon my spine angle. Thus, how can I easily understand the proper spine angle? Obviously, the farther away the flatter the swing, but what's "too flat"? I see pro's with flat back swings and yet they have no problem gathering and getting into impact position.

This is confusing. LIkely a whole bunch of trial and error for sure, but maybe other folks have found some methods or quicker calibrations that I don't know. Thanks in advance!
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
Thanks! I LOVE Clement!!!
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I watched the video. Shawn goes through the basics, but he doesn't get into weighting in terms of heel-toe., and what's too much or too little spine angle. However, his overall message makes sense. I know for sure that in tennis the weight is on the balls of the feet, but how does that translate to golf? Thanks again.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
I watched the video. Shawn goes through the basics, but he doesn't get into weighting in terms of heel-toe., and what's too much or too little spine angle. However, his overall message makes sense. I know for sure that in tennis the weight is on the balls of the feet, but how does that translate to golf? Thanks again.
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can you make a balanced swing without the ball? the swing is dynamic; the ball is static and merely in the way of the swing. address the swing (grip/posture/alignment), not the ball.

 
Don’t know if you read my “speaking of rebuild” post, but that is essentially what I have been struggling with. By trying to build an artificially “proper” swing with the hands below the shoulders, I crept too close to the ball. I was squatting too much and spine angle was too upright. I was fighting my natural swing which was more of an ‘around the body’ Moe Norman-esque type of action. Finding the swing of old meant that, yes, my hands are below my shoulders- just not directly below. I moved away from the ball a bit and increased the spine angle to allow the swing to once again go around my body. This also helped get my weight to the balls of my feet instead of on the heels which lead to falling off the ball and pulls and hooks. Keeping centered helps keep the club on path to target. Good Luck!


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One thing I do, and I check it frequently, is to take the athletic posture. Let arms hang down naturally. Grip club, club head will be where ball should be. Makes it consistent.
Keeps me from creeping in or away from ball.
 
chpar4 said:
One thing I do, and I check it frequently, is to take the athletic posture. Let arms hang down naturally. Grip club, club head will be where ball should be. Makes it consistent.
Keeps me from creeping in or away from ball.

Age, and terminology is a remarkable thing. Back in the day, the current "athletic posture" term was termed "gorilla posture" by some. Which ever term used, I set up the same way from the ball.

I will also give the sole of my club a quick glance to make sure it's soled behind the ball properly.
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I think a good waggle and foot shuffle is part of getting this right. Once you've picked your line and addressed the ball stay loose, waggle a bit while shuffling your feet and you're body will tell you if you're off, you just need to kind of stay loose while adjusting and keep your line in mind. An intermediate target really helps here as it gives you something to align on while adjusting. Once your set, let it rip.
 
UPDATE. Plus, really good comments above!

I went out to the range yesterday with my instructor. We checked stance weighting first. My weight is more towards the balls of my feet in my current stance, and according to him, I have no problem with spine angle at setup. To check that, he had me stand straight-up, then tilt from the hips, flex my knees, then let the arms hang. Again, that review resulted in the same distance from the ball that I believed was too close. Then upon taking the club to the top, my weight did not shift back into my heels....check.

After looking at some pro setups vs. mine on his iPad, he showed me that my setup spine angle, knee flex, and takeaway are similar to Fred Couples. This was not a surprise because when I was in college Fred did a swing demo at the local club and talked about how he lifted and set the club into position at the top, or that's how it felt to him. I know for sure that from that day forward I liked the idea of lifting the club to the top and "manually" setting it into position vs. trying to get to the top in a more connected arms/shoulder turn manner, if that makes sense to anybody. I wildly depart from Couples on the down swing!! Who doesn't? LOL. My pro said "we need to get your downswing more like Couples" (connection/rotation), adding "even 30% closer would make a huge difference". He also said the picture of my setup in college was at a slight angle and after some analysis I was roughly the same distance away. Maybe I wanted to see something to blame something? I shouldn't have missed that.

As for the back swing, he had no problem with my lifting the club and setting it into position. He said it's actually a short-cut, "cheat" move to set the club where I want it at the top vs. relying upon a series of moves to get there another way. Plus, he said it's all about the down swing and impact, adding "how you get into a good position at the top doesn't really matter, and if you can simply place the club into position, why not?" He said he actually has students lift & place, starting from any position to get them used to where the club is at the top because that's the position he/they need to work with on the down swing sequence.

After hitting some balls, he validated I was leaving the club handle behind at the start of the down swing. He said "your hips are here, your chest is there, and the handle is still back there". He said I have a great ability to disconnect my hips from my upper body which is a good thing, but he said somewhere along the way my hips started running-away from my upper body. The pro then asked how far I hit my driver when I was younger. I said often over 300 yards. He said BINGO! I said "Bingo what?". He said my body had to have very good separation to hit drives that far, and that my hips still have that separation and "speed", so I've got to work the handle down in concert with my hips. He said "don't even think about trying to slow your hips because that's natural to you, it will ruin your swing."

I went back to hitting balls, working on connection, letting my hips do their thing, but TRYING to the handle to fall in concert with my hips. It was one of those times where after each shot he said "nope, nope, nope, nope, hmmm, nope, maybe, and better". On the "better" shot it my swing felt instantly more fluid. We reviewed my "better" swing on his iPad video slo-mo and saw the handle was slightly more in front of my chest earlier, still not optimal, but that slight change made a huge difference. He said this will be a tough battle because my right hand has gotten used to releasing early in the down swing, flipping, because the club handle has been behind. He said I should expect a lot of fat shots before it all irons out. Sure enough, my right hand was trying hard to flip just as my belt buckle faced the ball on the down swing. But at least I know why now.

I hope there's some tidbits here that might help others. We all have unique body movements, perceptions, etc, that might be best to leave unchallenged and instead work on refining them. I'm lucky to have an instructor who "allows" all types of back swings and works with whatever position one may have at the top to hone the the down swing sequence and impact position.
 
May have already been mentioned, but the "brush test" is a good way to figure out stance distance from the ball, as well as ball placement in the stance for the club being used.

Just take your practice swing without the ball, and note where the club path is, and where the club head touches the turf. Then, stand accordingly to what has been observed.
 
I think standing relatively close to the ball is the easiest way to consistently have an effective address posture (which promotes an effective body turn-pivot-weight shift).
The usual problem with standing too far from the ball is that this tends to promote an inefficient, arms powered swing.
 
Swing the club a few times without a ball in front of you. This is your natural swing. Where you see the clubhead flash across the ground in front of you is where the ball goes.
 
I once saw a video that showed when you're in your stance make the "hang loose" sign ?with your right and and touch your belt with your pinky and your thumb should touch the butt of the club. No idea if its correct but I have done that when I creep too close to the ball.
 
Commenting so I remember to go back and read this thread later.... I have trouble with standing too close, and not having enough knee and hip flex. I get posture sloppy. Definitely interested in this discussion.
 
Simple solution: Don’t ground the club when you initially set up, and you’ll find the right distance from the ball.

When you ground the club, the club becomes stationary while you’re still moving and then you might step in too close. So hover it as you take your stance, then only ground it after your feet are in place.


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GraniteRoost said:
Commenting so I remember to go back and read this thread later.... I have trouble with standing too close, and not having enough knee and hip flex. I get posture sloppy. Definitely interested in this discussion.
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This may sound weird, but you want your knees to feel like they're "active", not just bent because they're supposed to be bent. They need to feel like you can "lunge" away from the ball at impact. Check out Lexi....she's practically coming off the ground at impact.
 

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GolfLivesMatter said:
This may sound weird, but you want your knees to feel like they're "active", not just bent because they're supposed to be bent. They need to feel like you can "lunge" away from the ball at impact. Check out Lexi....she's practically coming off the ground at impact.
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Thanks! My legs are plenty active... I pop at impact in a very similar move to Lexi, but my posture is worse. I have similar CHS to Lexi, however, my pop is partially stalled hip turn and a touch of standing up , where I am looking for more continuous rotation (I think). Small changes not huge ones, but important. I feel like I need to be a couple inches further away with more knee flex, and when I do it right its much better.
 
GraniteRoost said:
Thanks! My legs are plenty active... I pop at impact in a very similar move to Lexi, but my posture is worse. I have similar CHS to Lexi, however, my pop is partially stalled hip turn and a touch of standing up , where I am looking for more continuous rotation (I think). Small changes not huge ones, but important. I feel like I need to be a couple inches further away with more knee flex, and when I do it right its much better.
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My thought is the club is attached to my right front pocket that needs to rotate to hit the ball, and my right hand needs to follow the pocket rotation.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
My thought is the club is attached to my right front pocket that needs to rotate to hit the ball, and my right hand needs to follow the pocket rotation.
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Hmmmm... maybe if I combine this with a setup/proper posture at address thought, I will be in business. I slouch too much.... chest and cheeks out!
 
GraniteRoost said:
Hmmmm... maybe if I combine this with a setup/proper posture at address thought, I will be in business. I slouch too much.... chest and cheeks out!
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In reality, you want to create more space on the down swing by increasing your spine angle. That's why we see the pro's head's moving down as they rotate the club. They hate even a sliver of a chance of getting stuck.
 
It's a feel thing. Make a few relaxed swings without a ball in front of you. This gives you the feeling of where the club wants to cross the ground when you hit the ball. Now address a ball. Since you know where the club likes to go, if you feel you will have to reach for it at impact you're too far away, and if you feel cramped, you are too close.
 
From what I’ve found , it’s gonna be different for many. I’ve found erratic flights when my hands get out past my toes at address. Keeping them inside my toes has helped me control my flight better.
 
Picking a workable spine angle and maintaining it thru impact is key for me.
 
I think you have to have part of your routine that gets you in the proper distance when getting ready for each swing. Without going in to too much detail, I try and setup the same exact way every time. I didn’t have a solid routine for this for a long time and suffered because of it but my experience has been once you find that routine that puts you where you need to be just make sure and stick with it and do it every single time. If it doesn’t feel right for some reason, back off the ball and do it again.
 
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