Do You Believe The Hype?

[dcorun]

I just watched a club comparison by Rick Shiels on YouTube. He was comparing the Cobra F9 which he played all of this year and the new Cobra King SZ. He hit the SZ outside and inside on the GC Quad monitor. He set them up as equal as he could which was pretty close if you watch the video. I will post the numbers and you can watch the video if you like.
F9 - Clubhead Speed - 113.9 King SZ - Clubhead Speed - 114.3
Ball Speed - 161.3 Ball Speed - 161
Carry - 288 Carry - 288
Total Distance - 312 Total Distance - 310
Launch Angle - 14.4 Launch Angle - 14.2
Spin - 2029 Spin - 2057

Is the comparison exact no, but I think it comes close. The point is that all the hype and not just by Cobra, but all the top companies is just that, hype. The limit has been reached so, make sure you compare your current clubs against the newer models before buying. Especially the driver and irons.

 

[JB]

We have heard the same thing for a dozen years, and limits have been the same for so long. The idea that measuring a couple of shots on the button and them being equal says little to me personally about where clubs are and where they are going.

To use an example, go check out a driver from years ago when the limits were still the same and check out the speed and spin rates when you dont catch one right on the button. It is pretty crazy.

The good news is it is super easy to test out for any golfer and nobody is forced to buy anything. Go test clubs at a store, THP Experience, etc. Bring your gamer with you. See what happens. If it's better for you, you have something to think about. If it's not, there ya go, you know you are in a good spot.

 

[Space Bandito]

I don't think this is necessarily the case. I can tell you first hand that a lot of folks here saw ball speed gains from Epic Flash, where I did not (when compared to my Epic SZ) I think, just like all things in this sport, it is relative to the person swinging the club.

 

[sposey013168]

I just watched a club comparison by Rick Shiels on YouTube. He was comparing the Cobra F9 which he played all of this year and the new Cobra King SZ. He hit the SZ outside and inside on the GC Quad monitor. He set them up as equal as he could which was pretty close if you watch the video. I will post the numbers and you can watch the video if you like.
F9 - Clubhead Speed - 113.9 King SZ - Clubhead Speed - 114.3
Ball Speed - 161.3 Ball Speed - 161
Carry - 288 Carry - 288
Total Distance - 312 Total Distance - 310
Launch Angle - 14.4 Launch Angle - 14.2
Spin - 2029 Spin - 2057

Is the comparison exact no, but I think it comes close. The point is that all the hype and not just by Cobra, but all the top companies is just that, hype. The limit has been reached so, make sure you compare your current clubs against the newer models before buying. Especially the driver and irons.

Perhaps for him drivers are maxed, he also swings really hard and really good. For a guy like me who swings average speed and misses on the toe alot I think improvements can still be made, so I do not think it is all hype


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[CBaker]

To be fair....marketing isn't hype. Marketing is just that, marketing. Hype comes from other sources. IMO the primary source can never be hype.

With that said, nothing is hype if it does what it intends to. Whether you personally will see the same results is user based, as there are tons of different swings out there. Maximizing your miss is way more important than what happens directly in the center, as you're right, COR limits are maxed out so there isn't a ton to gain there. But for each individual user there may or may not be.

The good news is, the club advancements will help SOMEONE out there, and more choices for us the consumers is ALWAYS 1000000% of the time a positive thing.

 

[JB]

To be fair....marketing isn't hype. Marketing is just that, marketing. Hype comes from other sources. IMO the primary source can never be hype.

With that said, nothing is hype if it does what it intends to. Whether you personally will see the same results is user based, as there are tons of different swings out there. Maximizing your miss is way more important than what happens directly in the center, as you're right, COR limits are maxed out so there isn't a ton to gain there. But for each individual user there may or many not be.

The good news is, the club advancements will help SOMEONE out there, and more choices for us the consumers is ALWAYS 1000000% of the time a positive thing.

This is a really good post. Here is an interesting thought. If R&D was not necessary, companies could save literally tens of millions of dollars.

 

[CBaker]

This is a really good post. Here is an interesting thought. If R&D was not necessary, companies could save literally tens of millions of dollars.

For many companies, R&D is by far their most expensive aspect of business. They would love to be able to cut those budgets down and just be able to change colors of things every year since nothing ever is actually different.

 

[OITW]

To be fair....marketing isn't hype. Marketing is just that, marketing. Hype comes from other sources. IMO the primary source can never be hype.

With that said, nothing is hype if it does what it intends to. Whether you personally will see the same results is user based, as there are tons of different swings out there. Maximizing your miss is way more important than what happens directly in the center, as you're right, COR limits are maxed out so there isn't a ton to gain there. But for each individual user there may or many not be.

The good news is, the club advancements will help SOMEONE out there, and more choices for us the consumers is ALWAYS 1000000% of the time a positive thing.

For many companies, R&D is by far their most expensive aspect of business. They would love to be able to cut those budgets down and just be able to change colors of things every year since nothing ever is actually different.

So basically the only place we disagree is the NHL thread?

well stated dood

 

[WLG1952]

"Hype" to me is just another word for "sales pitch". I also believe most sales pitches are pretty most void of any accuracy. Plus, they tend prey on the weak minded.

I bought into various "hype" claims about golf equipment when I was much younger, and ignorant of the facts. Eventually, I grew up, and gained some more valid brain cells.

They say golf is a game of "honor and integrity". I don't find that to be easily applied to the equipment manufacturers, and their advertisments. Not saying they don't sell quality stuff. Most of them do.

Golf's ruling bodies have placed so many controls on what golf equipment can, and can't do. Golf equipment manufacturers are limited to what they can make their equipment do, if they want to be recognized as conforming..

I think for the end user, the best route is to find equipment the individual is comfortable with. Then stay in that comfort zone.

 

[McLovin]

"Hype" to me is just another word for "sales pitch". I also believe most sales pitches are pretty most void of any accuracy. Plus, they tend prey on the weak minded.

I bought into various "hype" claims about golf equipment when I was much younger, and ignorant of the facts. Eventually, I grew up, and gained some more valid brain cells.

They say golf is a game of "honor and integrity". I don't find that to be easily applied to the equipment manufacturers, and their advertisments. Not saying they don't sell quality stuff. Most of them do.

Golf's ruling bodies have placed so many controls on what golf equipment can, and can't do. Golf equipment manufacturers are limited to what they can make their equipment do, if they want to be recognized as conforming..

I think for the end user, the best route is to find equipment the individual is comfortable with. Then stay in that comfort zone.

you do know if they lie in a published medium there are repercussions, right?

 

[mikeg_74]

This is a really good post. Here is an interesting thought. If R&D was not necessary, companies could save literally tens of millions of dollars.

Along with 12 other THPers we just heard on why R&D is important for golf companies. Some will call it hype because they just refuse to believe technological advances can still be made. Reaching the USGA/R&A limits is just one part of the equation. Maximizing ball speeds on mishits is often overlooked, but so important.

 

[AndyL0711]

"hype" matters more to golfers like myself. i am a 18ish handicap, who doesn't hit the face square each time. for me i like to feel like i am hitting a good club and that thinking helps me on the course. is it like a placebo effect? sure...but whatever helps you gain a shot or two is good. if my stupid ass falls for their marketing ploys (this club will gain you 20 yards with off center hits) then so be it. rick shields and many of you on here don't play the same game i play....i wish i played your game.

 

[dacatalyst41]

A lot of users of "new tech" will not live out of the middle, where some reviewers see more of their contact. The difference in forgiveness, ball speed, spin and other critical data points for someone like me would be vastly different than it would be for a golf instructor. I'd say hype is subjective. What I do know is, the performance I get from more recent drivers is significantly better on mishits and off-center strikes than anything I was using 5 years ago.

Lastly, I used to believe that tech wasn't progressing significantly from one iteration to the next in succession, but based on recent releases, I'd argue that is necessarily true either.

 

[GoldenBuff]

I watched that video. That takeaway is based on Rick's swing, swing speed, and quantum reality. In general I think most changes release to release are minor. However, golf is a subtle and nuanced game. Small improvements can be a very big deal. It all depends on the individual.

And, buying previous release clubs for big $ savings can be really smart.

 

[DataDude]

I think Cobra would admit they did as much as they could do with F9 with distance on center face hits. There was some criticism accompanied by launch monitor data on the F9 where shots hit high on the face did not perform very well. I bet internally this is why they developed the cup face design for the milled face and I bet that design solved that problem and this is now not only a top notch driver for raw distance, but also one of the most forgiving drivers out there as well. Improvements are incremental anyway, we all know that. Each of us has to decide whether that improvement is worth it.

 

[Mark_UK]

Everyone is different, but I don’t believe the marketing. I spent some time a couple of weeks back hitting some of the new drivers out there. Nothing performed any better than my trusty old XR16.


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[tequila4kapp]

If drivers are maxed out for center strikes a goal of testing could be to see optimized performance (spin, launch, etc) and forgiveness with the club. Every driver will do that best for different golfers when the driver has specifically optimized settings to the golfer. In other words, the test should be optimal results with Driver 1 vs Driver 2, both drivers fitted / configured to the golfer.

Then we also have the issue of testing to confirm if the drivers does what the advertising says it does.

Simply putting 2 drivers in the same setup and comparing head to head seems like an extremely lazy and dated way to “test”

 

[Lions81]

So because 1 guy (a pro no less) got similar numbers between 2 drivers (probably mostly hit in the center of the face) then all new drivers must be "hype?" I don't think so.

 

[-CRW-]

I know the super low/forward CG drivers from just a few years ago seemed much less forgiving than current versions. Specifically, the SLDR comes to mind.

 

[Sean]

No, don't believe the hype...and the hype is getting more expensive. You now have some drivers north of $500.

 

[OGputtnfool]

I believe "improvement" is easy to justify. Whether that "improvement" is noticeable is debatable and will be different for each individual.

 

[JB]

No, don't believe the hype...and the hype is getting more expensive. You now have some drivers north of $500.

In 1999 we had new drivers hit the market at over $500 as well.
See Liquid Metal, which became crazy popular.
In 1995 we had the TaylorMade Bubble Burner come in at $400

Seems that 20+ years $500 would be lower than inflation correct?

 

[tahoebum]

In 1999 we had new drivers hit the market at over $500 as well.
See Liquid Metal, which became crazy popular.
In 1995 we had the TaylorMade Bubble Burner come in at $400

Seems that 20+ years $500 would be lower than inflation correct?

Equipment is definitely less expensive adjusted for inflation than it was in the 1990's especially if you consider how much cheaper last year's models are. You also can now easily purchase equipment slightly used for a great deal on CPO or eBay which wasn't possible 25 years ago. I remember paying $320 for a GBB when it was first released(1994??) and adjusted for inflation that's $555 in today's dollars. I would add that the stock graphite shafts on those old Callaway drivers were crap and you had one model of graphite shaft choice from the factory. I have three Epic SZ drivers and the last two I got a year after release for about $220 from CPO.

 

[kevin81002]

Perhaps for him drivers are maxed, he also swings really hard and really good. For a guy like me who swings average speed and misses on the toe alot I think improvements can still be made, so I do not think it is all hype


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I actually had higher ball speed numbers with the epic sz compared to EF SZ. But man the spin with the epic was stupid low... like knuckleball low.

 

[kevin81002]

In 1999 we had new drivers hit the market at over $500 as well.
See Liquid Metal, which became crazy popular.
In 1995 we had the TaylorMade Bubble Burner come in at $400

Seems that 20+ years $500 would be lower than inflation correct?

20 years ago 300 was the norm and 500 was extreme. Now 500 is the norm and the premiums are what... 800+? Seems to me inflation is about on track or higher. That's a 60% increase imo.