Don't "TRY" to do anything in Golf - What?

[GolfLivesMatter]

I was watching the linked video on putting by Dave Stockton. While I'm thinking he's going to go straight into his putting technique, he said something that caught me by surprise. Not just about putting....but golf in general. He said when you're getting ready to putt, you don't want to try and make it...you want to roll the ball. Then he said that as soon as you try NOT to 3 putt, or try to do ANYTHING in golf, it's NOT going to work. WHAT?. Then progressed into talking about why folks make the 2nd attempt at a putt they just missed - they don't care so much.

The concept seems counter-intuitive to a game where the brain is constantly running "mental algorithms" to avoid bad shots. But it also makes a lot of sense. A baseball hitter can't try to hit a ball because it's on him before he can think of trying. A QB can't think of trying to hit a receiver because he only has seconds to make a decision. They have to react naturally. I heard the actual time swinging a golf club on the course is around 3 minutes...over 4.5 hours of play, so I guess what he's saying is there's no point in creating a chain reaction of thoughts...everything happens too fast.

I think it may explain why taking the "range swing" to the course is so difficult, and why the 6 foot putts made on the practice putting green seem to drop "when it matters". Anyone know of a book that delves into this aspect of golf? :call-me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wrFdmekKFk

 

[tequila4kapp]

I think he means 'trying' to make the putt makes us aim, make compensations with our stroke, etc. So don't be result oriented, be process oriented. Pick your line and putt a good roll on it and the ball will drop.

 

[Tadashi70]

One thing is fore sure, you have to have a repeatable swing or stroke to be able to not ‘try’ and make a shot happen. The vast majority of golfers don’t have an idea where the ball will end up or the touch to manage a breaking putt.

I’m all for picking your lines and just ‘doing’. But it isn’t going to work for everyone.

 

[Misike]

I really enjoyed his book, unconscious putting.

 

[DucatiGirl]

I was watching the linked video on putting by Dave Stockton. While I'm thinking he's going to go straight into his putting technique, he said something that caught me by surprise. Not just about putting....but golf in general. He said when you're getting ready to putt, you don't want to try and make it...you want to roll the ball. Then he said that as soon as you try NOT to 3 putt, or try to do ANYTHING in golf, it's NOT going to work. WHAT?. Then progressed into talking about why folks make the 2nd attempt at a putt they just missed - they don't care so much.

The concept seems counter-intuitive to a game where the brain is constantly running "mental algorithms" to avoid bad shots. But it also makes a lot of sense. A baseball hitter can't try to hit a ball because it's on him before he can think of trying. A QB can't think of trying to hit a receiver because he only has seconds to make a decision. They have to react naturally. I heard the actual time swinging a golf club on the course is around 3 minutes...over 4.5 hours of play, so I guess what he's saying is there's no point in creating a chain reaction of thoughts...everything happens too fast.

I think it may explain why taking the "range swing" to the course is so difficult, and why the 6 foot putts made on the practice putting green seem to drop "when it matters". Anyone know of a book that delves into this aspect of golf? :call-me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wrFdmekKFk

A lot of these concepts are tenets of sports psychology. Any of the myriad of books on topics like sports focus will help, from making a free throw to making the putt to kicking the winning field goal to an Olympic gold in bobsled. There's a reason visualization is such a powerful technique.

I've seen Annika Sorenstam talk about it in a video, the system she uses - she stands in a "box" for deliberation, discussing the next shot, which club, which line. Once you take a step from the deliberation box, you've got to leave the doubt behind as you step up to the ball with confidence and *knowing* what you're going to do.

This kind of focus is high-level for most elite athletes. But you can train yourself to do it.

(I know this sounds like random insight, but I studied this stuff in college as an athletic trainer and have always had an interest in the psychology of sports, and I read. A lot.)

 

[JMB3]

A lot of these concepts are tenets of sports psychology. Any of the myriad of books on topics like sports focus will help, from making a free throw to making the putt to kicking the winning field goal to an Olympic gold in bobsled. There's a reason visualization is such a powerful technique.

I've seen Annika Sorenstam talk about it in a video, the system she uses - she stands in a "box" for deliberation, discussing the next shot, which club, which line. Once you take a step from the deliberation box, you've got to leave the doubt behind as you step up to the ball with confidence and *knowing* what you're going to do.

This kind of focus is high-level for most elite athletes. But you can train yourself to do it.

(I know this sounds like random insight, but I studied this stuff in college as an athletic trainer and have always had an interest in the psychology of sports, and I read. A lot.)

Bob Rotella has some great stuff on golf-specific sports psychology. One of my favorite golf books, and arguably the most-influential to my game, is Golf is Not a Game of Perfect. He addresses some of the same points Stockton makes, and uses a lot of real-life stories to illustrate his points. A must read in my opinion.

I also loved Stockton's Unconscious Putting.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Bob Rotella has some great stuff on golf-specific sports psychology. One of my favorite golf books, and arguably the most-influential to my game, is Golf is Not a Game of Perfect. He addresses some of the same points Stockton makes, and uses a lot of real-life stories to illustrate his points. A must read in my opinion.

I also loved Stockton's Unconscious Putting.

Just ordered the book! Thanks!

 

[chenrio]

I totally agree with the concept. I wasted a lot of time trying to keep the putter face square back and thru when putting. For me personally, I putt best when I get set up, aim, keep my eyes on the back of the ball, and just let the putter do whatever it wants on the back swing. I think my subconscious guides the putter and knows what speed will get it to the hole. I recently applied a similar technique to my full swing. I take my back swing thinking only of the target, let my arms drop by gravity alone, and just turn thru the ball. Amazing difference in accuracy.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

A lot of these concepts are tenets of sports psychology. Any of the myriad of books on topics like sports focus will help, from making a free throw to making the putt to kicking the winning field goal to an Olympic gold in bobsled. There's a reason visualization is such a powerful technique.

I've seen Annika Sorenstam talk about it in a video, the system she uses - she stands in a "box" for deliberation, discussing the next shot, which club, which line. Once you take a step from the deliberation box, you've got to leave the doubt behind as you step up to the ball with confidence and *knowing* what you're going to do.

This kind of focus is high-level for most elite athletes. But you can train yourself to do it.

(I know this sounds like random insight, but I studied this stuff in college as an athletic trainer and have always had an interest in the psychology of sports, and I read. A lot.)

My wife played collegiate golf and participated in LPGA qualifiers back in the day. Her dad taught her to swing without oppressive mechanics instruction. He purposely gave her men's clubs to force her figure out how to use her body to swing / whip the club and meet the ball. She avoids golf tips like the plague. I showed her your post about Sorenstam. She said "exactly!"...adding that Sorenstam wasn't thinking "stay down, keep arm straight, rotate, create lag...etc". Plus, the reason Annika separated the analysis from the actual shot is because indecision creates tension.

She demonstrated to me how much the brain can ruin natural movement. I'm at the top of a long staircase. She's in front of me with her arms out, ready to catch me if i fall, which creates a negative outcome in my brain. I'm not allowed to use the railing. Then she says "Ok, left foot, right foot, bend left knee, drop foot, straighten left knee, bend right knee, drop foot", etc, etc. After about 5 steps I'm grabbing the railing. My brain overloaded on something I do without having to think.

 

[DucatiGirl]

My wife played collegiate golf and participated in LPGA qualifiers back in the day. Her dad taught her to swing without oppressive mechanics instruction. He purposely gave her men's clubs to force her figure out how to use her body to swing / whip the club and meet the ball. She avoids golf tips like the plague. I showed her your post about Sorenstam. She said "exactly!"...adding that Sorenstam wasn't thinking "stay down, keep arm straight, rotate, create lag...etc". Plus, the reason Annika separated the analysis from the actual shot is because indecision creates tension.

She demonstrated to me how much the brain can ruin natural movement. I'm at the top of a long staircase. She's in front of me with her arms out, ready to catch me if i fall, which creates a negative outcome in my brain. I'm not allowed to use the railing. Then she says "Ok, left foot, right foot, bend left knee, drop foot, straighten left knee, bend right knee, drop foot", etc, etc. After about 5 steps I'm grabbing the railing. My brain overloaded on something I do without having to think.

It's abslutely fascinating. One of the important things is to create muscle memory - so we can step over from deliberation to action without having to "head straight, butt out, crap is my grip okay?!"

And we are hardwired to be creatures of habit. Tomorrow morning, pretend like you're showering before work for the day and do your entire bathroom routine *backwards.* We did this experiment for Psych in college and I was discombobulated for the entire rest of the day - hence why I don't recommend doing it on a work day...



and, ya know, Yoda said there is no try, only do. So do what Master Yoda says.

 

[tahoebum]

The mechanics and repeatability of the golf swing matter. Until a golfer figures those things out, the mental part of the game is secondary.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I totally agree with the concept. I wasted a lot of time trying to keep the putter face square back and thru when putting. For me personally, I putt best when I get set up, aim, keep my eyes on the back of the ball, and just let the putter do whatever it wants on the back swing. I think my subconscious guides the putter and knows what speed will get it to the hole. I recently applied a similar technique to my full swing. I take my back swing thinking only of the target, let my arms drop by gravity alone, and just turn thru the ball. Amazing difference in accuracy.

You nailed it regarding letting gravity work....and not focusing on swing-killing mental abuse outcome. FWIW, I played today and monitored my tension levels for each shot on my scorecard. A "1" for no tension...a "10" for ridiculous tension. My tension shots were disasters...every one. While not all lower-tension shots were perfect, I did end up hitting the ball well and towards the target, with many that were so good I asked myself (so dumb) "why are you even trying...just hit the friggin ball naturally!!!" And for putting, I placed my focus ahead of the ball to tell my natural self to swing thru that area...I made three >20 footers. And worse (best), I said to myself "I don't care if I make this putt".

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

It's abslutely fascinating. One of the important things is to create muscle memory - so we can step over from deliberation to action without having to "head straight, butt out, crap is my grip okay?!"

And we are hardwired to be creatures of habit. Tomorrow morning, pretend like you're showering before work for the day and do your entire bathroom routine *backwards.* We did this experiment for Psych in college and I was discombobulated for the entire rest of the day - hence why I don't recommend doing it on a work day...



and, ya know, Yoda said there is no try, only do. So do what Master Yoda says.

The bathroom thing is 100% true....I'm thinking how weirded-out I would be! My wife never talks about her swing or why what works...EVER. She says it's natural movement...quit over-thinking yourself to death. She gabs through her rounds of golf like she's talking on the phone. On a par 3 - 175, water on the right side, traps on the left, she asks "what are we having for dinner tonight". Then hits the green. My buddies will whisper to me "how does she not think about what she's doing?". LOL!

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

The mechanics and repeatability of the golf swing matter. Until a golfer figures those things out, the mental part of the game is secondary.

What type of mechanics?

 

[rallo]

"Do or do not..."

 

[-CRW-]

I’ve found that things go better for me if I “try” on the range and just “do” on the course.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I’ve found that things go better for me if I “try” on the range and just “do” on the course.

Good point! Imagine being on the course and saying to yourself...."now you know you always miss this shot...so keep your head down...and create that lag like the lag doctor said...swing with the big muscles....and watch that right knee". No wonder why folks top a PW from 120.

 

[Sean]

In golf, most of us try NOT to do something, e.g., not three putt, not put it in the water, etc. That doesn't seem to be the proper mindset required to execute a good putt/shot.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

In golf, most of us try NOT to do something, e.g., not three putt, not put it in the water, etc. That doesn't seem to be the proper mindset required to execute a good putt/shot.

It's why your range shots and practice putting green putts seem easier....no negative outcomes. Try walking down a flight of stairs thinking "don't fall...move properly!".

 

[DucatiGirl]

In golf, most of us try NOT to do something, e.g., not three putt, not put it in the water, etc. That doesn't seem to be the proper mindset required to execute a good putt/shot.

When motorcycling, you have target fixation. Say you’re on the road and you have 12” of road between pot holes. If you don’t think and fixate on the obstacle, down you go in the pot hole. So you train yourself to fixate on the road, not the obstacle, and zip right past.

It’s the same mindset. Fixate on your target, not the lake or the green side bunker.

 

[tomcat]

When motorcycling, you have target fixation. Say you’re on the road and you have 12” of road between pot holes. If you don’t think and fixate on the obstacle, down you go in the pot hole. So you train yourself to fixate on the road, not the obstacle, and zip right past.

It’s the same mindset. Fixate on your target, not the lake or the green side bunker.

Yep, I remember one of my first track days on the bike, the instructor repeatedly telling us that if someone goes down in front of you, especially if it's off the track, DO NOT look at them, or you'll end up right there too. Sure enough a few track days later I was in a fairly good speed left hand sweeper and a guy a few people in front of me went off the right side, and I had about a second where I was looking at him, and even during that second noticed my line changed slightly. Gotta just focus.

A fun little exercise for anyone with a motorcycle or a bicycle and want to see how focus affects muscle memory. Start by looking ahead and try to make the tightest turn you can (while keeping your head focused directly ahead of your bike throughout the turn). It'll likely be somewhat wobbly. Now just before you begin a second turn, turn your head over your shoulder (in the direction of the turn) and pick a spot that you'd like to turn around/over. Odds are that you'll be able to do it, and it will be a much smoother and TIGHTER turn than previously.

Now back to the original topic....

 

[tahoebum]

What type of mechanics?

Grip, posture, ball position, alignment, tempo. Very few bogey golfers get these things right, almost all low single digit golfers do.

 

[DucatiGirl]

Grip, posture, ball position, alignment, tempo. Very few bogey golfers get these things right, almost all low single digit golfers do.

Hence the importance of building correct muscle memory - whether riding a bicycle, running a skeleton sled, or hitting a driver off the tee. When you have the muscle memory, you can trust yourself to hit the shot.

My kickboxing coach says he can see the instant my brain swoops in. "You're thinking again!" So we run drills while reciting tongue twisters and the Fibonnaci sequence. I've tried to translate that to golf too - I set up and get my practice swing in, ensure I've got the alignment and everything the way I want it. And THEN I step to the ball, and try to blank my mind.

Even if I have to think "fairway fairway fairway" or mutter "how many Lowe's could Rob Lowe rob, if Rob Lowe could rob Lowe's" under my breath.

But hey, that seems to work for me now, as the uber beginner. Hopefully in a year or two, I won't be the weirdo reciting limericks all the time...

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Grip, posture, ball position, alignment, tempo. Very few bogey golfers get these things right, almost all low single digit golfers do.

Fair enough. But here's what I've found: A good grip is essential. But after that, grip pressure and tension level is important. Case in point. Take an iron...hold it out in front of you and cock your wrists up, so the club is pointing up, get into your normal posture. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the absolute most pressure, grip with 10 pressure like you're squeezing the club to smash it. Then move the club up/down in front of you with your shoulders. Then keep moving the club up/down while reducing grip pressure to 9, 8, 7....1. You will see the club drop to hit the ground. With a "2" grip...and in normal golf posture....rotate your body left then right...letting your arms swing without tension, letting them react to your body rotation. You will find the wrists easily create lag against the weight of the club as the body rotates forward because the weight of the club is still going "back" as you rotate forward. It's impossible to not create lag. Plus, the path of the club thru the hitting area will be in the same place every time without trying, and actually closer to your body than where you normally play your ball.

I practiced this at home, then went to the range and hit a 60 degree - very short shots to get the feel. To start, I played the ball the normal distance away. I toed every ball, to the point the CLANK sound was embarrassing. So I took a few more tension free swings and saw the club was brushing the grass much closer to my body, in fact, at least 2, if not 3 inches closer! I believe the only reason I didn't completely miss the ball before was because my eyes knew where the ball was, so my body figured a way to somewhat compensate to an unnatural path. After moving the ball closer the shots were effortless.

Then on the course I setup with my driver with the ball the "normal" distance away...measured the distance from my feet to the teed ball to a mark on my driver shaft. I made a tension free swing and OMG...wild slice...biggest slice I ever hit, so bad it almost hit an apartment building 45 degrees from my aim! Then I took some additional tension-free swings standing in the same spot from the ball. Again, found I was about 2-3 inches too far away! So I re-teed, performed the same swing and the ball went straight down the middle. My observation is tension somehow, and I don't know why, forced me to play the ball too far away, actually working against the laws of physics that wants to swing the club on a natural path.

Long winded I know, but after decades of fussing with swing mechanics, tips of the day, new clubs, lesson after lesson about this swing position and that, and worse, my brain running a "mini-series" review of all those instructions before every shot, I hit a wall for improvement because I was never taught about a tension-free natural swing that actually lets all the mechanics work as intended. Heck, most of the mechanics occur without trying...like the effortless lag I mentioned above. I now feel like I'm "playing" golf vs. "working" golf.

 

[PatsFan]