Thanks. I’ll do that.
Figured out recent loss of power
Thanks. I’ll do that.
I recognize myself very much in this. If I don't pay attention when I practice, over time I will slowly introduce a small sway moving my weight backwards in the back swing, and forward in the down swing. Like I want to add force through the impact by also moving my body forward through impact. A few professionals actually do this (Kawamuro on the European Tour) but it is very difficult to do the same thing every swing, thus resulting in varied ball strikes. Good you figured it out quickly!
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2014
- Messages
- 7,310
- Reaction score
- 14,036
- Location
- Aberdeen, Scotland
- Handicap
- 8.7 WHS
This speaks to me loudly! All my problems, slice driver, inconsistent contact with the irons stem from swaying and then early extending. Different symptoms but very much the same root causes. I had a lesson on Tuesday night when my guy had me rotating more around a center which was so hard to do initially but I'm confident a few hundred range balls will have it in. The new trigger is to shift my left knee towards the ball and straighten my right leg slightly which pushes my right pocket behind me, then the rest falls into place. Played at a notoriously tough course on Wednesday and shot 81 with my best ball striking in recent memory. Now just need to grind it out until it becomes natural again.
GolfLivesMatter
Well-known member
Long ago an instructor put a ball under the outside of the middle of my right foot at address which helped give the feel of turning "into" the right side vs. swaying.
braveheart
Well-known member
RPB= right pocket back.
A swing thought advocated by Greg Norman that I often use for the driver with good success.
Knot Right
Well-known member
It's always more rewarding when you figure it out by yourself, isn't it?
I went through the "fats" this summer and just gave up. I finally said "enough" and had a long time club pro friend took at me. It took him all of 2-3 minutes, so we sat around and drank coffee.................. and reminisced about old friends for an hour.
razaar
Well-known member
How did that work out for you?
GolfLivesMatter
Well-known member
Keeps the weight inside the right foot where it belongs.
razaar
Well-known member
Not if a player wants right lateral bend of the spine which aids rotation and allows the player to stay down through the shot. Keeping the weight pressure inside the right foot is fatal for those who rotate the left leg and hip to start the downswing because there is no resistance from the right leg and hip to pull away from. It is the cause of sliding rather than rotating.
Golf is a minefield of these type of tips that hinder learning about the swing. If you want a lateral action and flip release then carry on doing the inside weight thing.
GolfLivesMatter
Well-known member
I'm not sure what you mean. Turning into the right side creates torque to initiate the downswing. Maybe you could diagram what you mean because I'm not sure.
razaar
Well-known member
A rotational swing has both hips and legs rotating clockwise during the backswing with the left hip acting as the hinge (think of a door hinge). In the downswing both legs and hips rotate counter-clockwise with the right hip acting as the hinge during transition. In the second half of the downswing both hips rotate together.
Keeping the weight pressure on the inside of the right foot during the backswing prevents the right leg and hip from rotating clockwise to set up the right hinge (the hip remains internally rotated during the backswing where it needs to be externally rotated ). (This player can rotate the right hip and leg clockwise during transition but it affects the amount of counterclockwise rotation of the left leg and hip required to create right lateral bend of the spine which is a key element in a great golf swing.)
The problem is in holding the right foot pronated where it should move into supination during the upswing. The angle of the lower right leg retains its address angle throughout the backswing (preventing a sway) with the right knee pointing outside the right foot as the upper leg rotates clockwise. Then the upper right leg and hip holds this position during transition.
Pull up the video on YouTube "Tiger Woods 2010 US Open left hip movements".
The right hip is hidden in this video, but it does reveal how the left hip and left leg rotates counterclockwise during transition to set up right lateral bend.
Keeping the weight pressure on the inside of the right foot during the backswing prevents the right leg and hip from rotating clockwise to set up the right hinge (the hip remains internally rotated during the backswing where it needs to be externally rotated ). (This player can rotate the right hip and leg clockwise during transition but it affects the amount of counterclockwise rotation of the left leg and hip required to create right lateral bend of the spine which is a key element in a great golf swing.)
The problem is in holding the right foot pronated where it should move into supination during the upswing. The angle of the lower right leg retains its address angle throughout the backswing (preventing a sway) with the right knee pointing outside the right foot as the upper leg rotates clockwise. Then the upper right leg and hip holds this position during transition.
Pull up the video on YouTube "Tiger Woods 2010 US Open left hip movements".
The right hip is hidden in this video, but it does reveal how the left hip and left leg rotates counterclockwise during transition to set up right lateral bend.
Last edited:
TrueMotionMatt
Well-known member
I would edit this a touch. For a rightie...A truly rotational downswing starts with both right and left legs going external. Right foot turns right and left turns left.
razaar
Well-known member
Some may feel it in the feet but I like to feel the movements in the glutes. This way the action is close to the centre of mass rather than in the feet. I don't think one can learn these movements correctly concentrating on the feet. I know that I couldn't.
Last edited:
TrueMotionMatt
Well-known member
Everyone has different feels...or said differently, no two golfers have the same feel.
GolfLivesMatter
Well-known member
Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about.
razaar
Well-known member
I would be surprised if you did. This is completely foreign for those who learnt to play golf from the 1960's through to the early 1990's. During that period golf instruction was about getting the right side involved early into the downswing . Point the right knee at the ball during transition was a popular advice with the tour players I was around during the 1980's. Ian Baker-Finch was one of the more famous pros I knew who played this way. It is no wonder his golf swing came to grief when he made the decision to learn a more rotational pivot in the dreaded search for length. Not only did he need to learn the pivot but he had to learn a hold off release to go with it.
Hogan's book Five Lessons...... was all about a rotational golf swing with a hold off release but unfortunately most golfers who read it interpreted it differently.
GolfLivesMatter
Well-known member
The right side is not involved early in my downswing. I don't know why you draw that conclusion. And regarding Finch, you should have sent him a note regarding how to fix his swing because some of the best in the world at the time tried.
Well-meaning people were on him like eczema—and not just fans.
Nick Price told him to grip it stronger. Sandy Lyle told him to
keep his elbows pointed more toward the ground. Faldo told him
to practice swinging with his eyes closed. Ian Woosnam told him
to just grip it tight and rip it. Seve Ballesteros told him to
hit shots as softly as he could. Ronan Rafferty told him to
forget tees and hit it right off the grass. Norman told him to
study Zen. Payne Stewart told him to keep his knees moving.
Ozzie Moore told him to keep his knees locked. Baker-Finch
listened to all of them. One day, in Orlando, he was working on
a tip given to him by a player when he was shocked erect by an
awful realization: I was working on this exact same thing here
last year!
razaar
Well-known member
I played with Finchy and socialised with him in the early 1980s and would like to think my swing was like his. In those days I shot some rounds in the 60s in Pro-Am tournaments so I wasn't a hacker. My problem was struggling with golf inflicted injuries and a growing awareness that I was playing with the wrong swing concepts. By the 1990's I had stopped playing golf and started following our two sons sport, both who were national rep players.
I returned to golf a decade later when my golf obsessed Father-in-law passed and left me his golfing equipment and extensive golf library. I have been on a quest to learn a safe and effective swing technique ever since. I discovered Kelvin Miyahira's Articles in 2008, the same year I joined this forum. His articles finally gave me an insight into different concepts about the swing that made lots of sense to me. As fortune has it, I was playing regularly with a guy who played sport with our two sons and who's son was a golfing prodigy with a bright future in the game, Cam Smith. It was obvious to me that Smithy's swing mirrored the concepts in Kelvin's articles. I now own a safe golf swing that I trust and know intimately, something I never had when I was playing championship golf.
My posts here are to help not hinder and to promote the golf swing that is getting more common on the world tours.
I think you will find Kelvin's 2012 Article "How to shift your weight without sliding" insightful to this thread.
TrueMotionMatt
Well-known member
Simple fix, but it takes hard work.
GolfLivesMatter
Well-known member
Fair enough, and I will read Kelvin's article. What I find interesting is all these so-called modern swings are not producing dominant players other than a few, and namely, Tiger Woods. Even Tiger will likely not meet or beat Nicklaus' record, despite all the new tech to boot, and new ball. I don't know your opinion, but I think if a young Nicklaus was on tour today he would beat his own major record with his "old" swing.
razaar
Well-known member
There isn't much difference between Jack's and Tiger's technique when you break both down into their respective macro and micro movement patterns. The difference is that Tiger owned more release patterns than Jack, that gave him more options in both long and short games. If I had to pick one I would go with Tiger being an improved model of Jack. Tiger researched and studied Jack where Jack studied everything Bobby Jones published and more than likely modelled his swing on Sam Sneed. It is a difficult one to call.
PM me in the morning.
My kid plays competition to a +/- I’d like a tip or two (don’t mess up a good swing) that’ll help him feel ready to send anything.
Here’s his last swing in Trackman 4
Obviously he can center it. I’ve seen you on here and ultimately it’ll come down to comfort level for him, can he work remotely on a golf swing?
I’m committed to him being a D1 college player if he wants. He’s had the same CHS for 3 years, he needs to jump it. Otherwise I don’t want it messed with much. There’s no need to build. If he is hitting 5+ yards further than Trackman can optimize, I’m pretty sure he just needs a little speed and short game and he’ll be good.
I’ve seen you on here and you are one of two people I’d trust to tinker with his swing. The other is the owner of the Trackman place. Shoot me some details (I was a PGA teaching pro 20+ years ago, don’t BS me). I’ve done what I can. He’s stuck on the 100 CHS range as comfortable. He’s hit 112 before. I’d like him to be able to confidently swing at least close to that.
I’m trying to teach him to push down hard in the ball of his right foot at transition, seen some incredible gains just doing that.
So tweaks designed at getting max CHS. Or controlling his new max.
I haven't had that problem, swaying rather than turning, but I've twice let sway slip into my swing. The first time was several months back. My ball-hitting had been improving. Then it wasn't. Long story short: I discovered I was swaying on my backswing. Eliminated that, improving rotation in the process, got better. The second time was when I made videos of my swing to send to TMG for my off-season training. Turned out one of my major swing flaws was swaying the upper part of my body (shoulders, head)
Funny thing is: I reviewed those videos before sending them and didn't see it, myself.
They won't BS you, but they may not agree with your methods and/or assessments
I took Beginner and Intermediate (the latter of which was essentially a repeat of the former) group lessons from a PGA Pro. There are aspects of what TMG is teaching me that are entirely unlike anything that PGA Pro did.