Interesting Concept for Private Courses

[5150]

You're right, but sometimes "casual" turns into rowdy. Most serious golfers join private clubs to avoid a bunch of drunks racing around in golf carts with music blaring. There are plenty of small private clubs around that you don't have to be rich to join.

Now this, here, is the one bit that nudges me towards the "Hmmmmmm a private club WOULD be nice" side of things...

I've grown tired of the drunken buffoonery that tends to dominate the public courses. I get that the course makes a good margin on alcohol, and there are economic realities here, but I enjoy the game much more sober than I do buzzed or flat out drunk.

That said, though, the one time (super small sample size, I know) I was a guest at the private course here in town, I ended up with a guy who was so hammered he had to lay down on the tee box before and after his shot. I feel like there are drunks everywhere, but I can see how a private course would stand a better chance of weeding those types out.

At this point I'm avoiding the drunks by playing at sunrise instead, when they are still nursing hangovers.

 

[Chef23]

Now this, here, is the one bit that nudges me towards the "Hmmmmmm a private club WOULD be nice" side of things...

I've grown tired of the drunken buffoonery that tends to dominate the public courses. I get that the course makes a good margin on alcohol, and there are economic realities here, but I enjoy the game much more sober than I do buzzed or flat out drunk.

That said, though, the one time (super small sample size, I know) I was a guest at the private course here in town, I ended up with a guy who was so hammered he had to lay down on the tee box before and after his shot. I feel like there are drunks everywhere, but I can see how a private course would stand a better chance of weeding those types out.

At this point I'm avoiding the drunks by playing at sunrise instead, when they are still nursing hangovers.

There are drunks everywhere. At private courses if drunks cause a problem there are ramifications so they tend to be more controlled.

 

[Elmave]

I'm not sure, though, that your experience with your particular club translates to all other private clubs being non-exclusive, right?

To use your example: how would you go about petitioning to join Augusta? What would be your opportunity there?



I'm not one for private clubs or courses, as I tend to think that sharing is a good thing.

Cheers...

In general my post has to do with the notion that private clubs have to make available tee times for the general public which I absolutely disagree with. As far as other clubs and their admission policies I am sure there are clubs that exclude people and are full of themselves thinking they are somehow the elite. I would have zero interest in joining any club like that. As far as Augusta not living there I have no idea what their membership policies are or what my opportunity to join would be. And there are im sure many clubs I would not be interested in because of what they charge. I don't feel excluded that is their business. And as far as "sharing is a good thing" im more of the opinion that in life with hard work comes opportunity and rewards im not sure if your suggesting that people who belong to Clubs somehow should share their club with everyone. Would that be with no charge or fees. As I said earlier there are all level of courses available to people at various stages of life and their working career. Municipal courses are at least partially funded with private citizens and businesses tax dollars . So golf is available to many and I don't think private clubs or courses need to be "shared" with those who don't join.

 

[5150]

There are drunks everywhere. At private courses if drunks cause a problem there are ramifications so they tend to be more controlled.

Yeah, that makes sense. Membership probably takes care of those problems faster in a private setting.

 

[Matthew]

In general my post has to do with the notion that private clubs have to make available tee times for the general public which I absolutely disagree with. As far as other clubs and their admission policies I am sure there are clubs that exclude people and are full of themselves thinking they are somehow the elite. I would have zero interest in joining any club like that. As far as Augusta not living there I have no idea what their membership policies are or what my opportunity to join would be. And there are im sure many clubs I would not be interested in because of what they charge. I don't feel excluded that is their business. And as far as "sharing is a good thing" im more of the opinion that in life with hard work comes opportunity and rewards im not sure if your suggesting that people who belong to Clubs somehow should share their club with everyone. Would that be with no charge or fees. As I said earlier there are all level of courses available to people at various stages of life and their working career. Municipal courses are at least partially funded with private citizens and businesses tax dollars . So golf is available to many and I don't think private clubs or courses need to be "shared" with those who don't join.

Private is private, if you want to play it, join up. If you don't want to join, then you don't get to play it (unless invited). That's not excluding people, that's simply saying these are the rules. And rules are everywhere & for everyone. Augusta gets brought up a bunch, which is a shame. There are rules & a path to joining there. Follow the rules & the path and you to can join. Granted, they don't publish those rules nor the path but it's the same for everyone.

 

[Molten]

Most might be a stretch. In our area most of the private clubs aren't looking for members. You can't just call the club up and say you are interested in joining and play a round. You need to know some members that might be interested in sponsoring you.

Interesting! In the DC area, I had nearly every club fall over themselves to get me to play a round when I was in the market, even if there was a wait list. It wouldn’t be with my buddies but I’d take a round with the membership committee person and a member. I guess other markets are different.

 

[5150]

In general my post has to do with the notion that private clubs have to make available tee times for the general public which I absolutely disagree with.

We agree there; I'm not advocating for forcing private clubs to allow tee times for the general public.

As far as other clubs and their admission policies I am sure there are clubs that exclude people and are full of themselves thinking they are somehow the elite. I would have zero interest in joining any club like that. As far as Augusta not living there I have no idea what their membership policies are or what my opportunity to join would be. And there are im sure many clubs I would not be interested in because of what they charge. I don't feel excluded that is their business.

Sure, I agree. To my knowledge, Augusta's membership is by invitation only - which, again, I have no problem with. It's their club. That said... I'll put it this way; they have made a lot of progress by comparison to their previous stance on who can be a member, and who cannot. Here is some good reading on that topic.

And as far as "sharing is a good thing" im more of the opinion that in life with hard work comes opportunity and rewards im not sure if your suggesting that people who belong to Clubs somehow should share their club with everyone. Would that be with no charge or fees. As I said earlier there are all level of courses available to people at various stages of life and their working career. Municipal courses are at least partially funded with private citizens and businesses tax dollars . So golf is available to many and I don't think private clubs or courses need to be "shared" with those who don't join.

That's well said, and I appreciate how you phrased your feedback as a question rather than assuming my intent.

In response I would say that this is probably more nuanced than a message board will allow, and we should really discuss on the tee box or the pub, but I'll give it a shot.

I agree that rewards are the result of hard work, no argument there. I'm not here to suggest that private golf clubs should be made to share their clubs with the general public.

Personally, just speaking for myself, when I have access to the finer things (as a result of my hard work), I want to share them. That's all. It's an ideal I personally chase. Not one I'm insisting should be mandated.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Hoganman1]

While I do enjoy playing at a private club, I also like playing different public courses when I travel. I've found the more expensive resort courses usually don't attract the unruly players. Having said that I'm finding that even at our club in Charlotte, money and class don't always intersect.

 

[Browns7213]

Agreed. It's the, "I'm better than you because I make more money" that's off putting. Opening up a club occasionally, or on days it's closed to members shouldn't be horrifying to anyone. We've just done a great job of making golf in the US, especially the ability to play at nice courses a rich man's sport. I'm all for private clubs, I'm also for select non-member tee times in some kind of format as well.

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Huh? It has nothing to do with "I'm better than you"! It has everything to do with the fact that members pony up a huge initiation fee and send a large check every month for access to the golf course and you want free access! Regarding "opening the clubs occasionally on days it closed to members". On days clubs are closed, usually Mondays, they are doing extensive maintenance to the course. Put yourself in member shoes, if you paid all that money would you want non-members getting free access taking up your tee times? I would think not.

 

[Frank559]

Seems to me the genesis of this discussion is — certain private courses are really nice, and I’d love to play them once in a while even ponying up the expensive greens fees, but alas I cannot because of private membership.

Just a thought exercise here: what if they opened up a public course, that operates at the standard of a “private golf course” in terms of quality, design, maintenance, etc. but charges a very hefty fee. Essentially a very nice course for the Everyman (who can afford it that is). Does that business model work? How hefty would the fee have to be for it to break even?

 

[Chef23]

Seems to me the genesis of this discussion is — certain private courses are really nice, and I’d love to play them once in a while even ponying up the expensive greens fees, but alas I cannot because of private membership.

Just a thought exercise here: what if they opened up a public course, that operates at the standard of a “private golf course” in terms of quality, design, maintenance, etc. but charges a very hefty fee. Essentially a very nice course for the Everyman (who can afford it that is). Does that business model work? How hefty would the fee have to be for it to break even?

There are a number of these facilities around. There is a 36 hole facility in Plymouth MA called The Pinehills that has two really nice courses generally in very good condition where they treat you very well. It is $140 per round Friday-Sunday there. Back when I was between clubs I used to bring people that hosted me at their club to Pinehills to reciprocate.

 

[Daddio]

...
Just a thought exercise here: what if they opened up a public course, that operates at the standard of a “private golf course” in terms of quality, design, maintenance, etc. but charges a very hefty fee. Essentially a very nice course for the Everyman (who can afford it that is). Does that business model work? How hefty would the fee have to be for it to break even?

We're fortunate to have a number of these courses right here. Significantly pricier than the other public courses in the area but the business model works very well. Despite the premium prices it's nearly impossible to book desirable tee times on some. I'll go as far as to say it is impossible to book a weekend foursome at one of them unless you do so exactly 30 days prior (and early) when they first come available for any given date. Wait a few hours and odds are there won't be foursome vacancies left.

Also our local private course members don't come off as elitist better than you a-holes at all. I've met and golfed with so many of them. One of the best guys you could ever hope to meet anywhere has weighed in on this thread a few times defending WHY golfers choose to join these private courses. I won't call him out but many MANY THPers have been fortunate enough to meet, share food drink laughs, and play golf with this guy over the years. He couldn't be snobby if you paid him to.

 

[davis20]

Huh? It has nothing to do with "I'm better than you"! It has everything to do with the fact that members pony up a huge initiation fee and send a large check every month for access to the golf course and you want free access! Regarding "opening the clubs occasionally on days it closed to members". On days clubs are closed, usually Mondays, they are doing extensive maintenance to the course. Put yourself in member shoes, if you paid all that money would you want non-members getting free access taking up your tee times? I would think not.

The "I'm better than you" comment was directed at the post that said members would be "horrified" to have the public play. Sounded more like it had to do with the public lack of country club demeanor and less about them being worried about tee times.

I'm not at all opposed to private clubs and I think clubs should be able to keep out and select whoever they want. I just find it interesting that according to the OP and others, around the world the model is different. It seems like it's an American thing to have 100% private clubs that you can't play as a member of the public even once in a lifetime. Again, nothing wrong with that, it's the clubs progative.

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[Matthew]

Seems to me the genesis of this discussion is — certain private courses are really nice, and I’d love to play them once in a while even ponying up the expensive greens fees, but alas I cannot because of private membership.

Just a thought exercise here: what if they opened up a public course, that operates at the standard of a “private golf course” in terms of quality, design, maintenance, etc. but charges a very hefty fee. Essentially a very nice course for the Everyman (who can afford it that is). Does that business model work? How hefty would the fee have to be for it to break even?

So, like Pinehurst, Pebble, Bandon Dunes, Torrey, etc..? Those are certainly not cheap but open to any & everyone. Just pony up.

 

[wubears71]

So, like Pinehurst, Pebble, Bandon Dunes, Torrey, etc..? Those are certainly not cheap but open to any & everyone. Just pony up.

There are those courses all over the country. When I was traveling a lot, I brought my clubs everywhere and was able to get on at the last minute at so many of these great courses. They are pricy, but that’s the cost of playing at courses with this level of amenities, condition and service.

I laugh when i read comments on FB and other places on how “unfair” it is that these courses charge so much. I get it. These courses are out of reach of many people just like the green seats are at Busch Stadium where they roll out the red carpet for you when you sit in them.

 

[BuffaloPlunger]

There are those courses all over the country. When I was traveling a lot, I brought my clubs everywhere and was able to get on at the last minute at so many of these great courses. They are pricy, but that’s the cost of playing at courses with this level of amenities, condition and service.

I laugh when i read comments on FB and other places on how “unfair” it is that these courses charge so much. I get it. These courses are out of reach of many people just like the green seats are at Busch Stadium where they roll out the red carpet for you when you sit in them.

Honestly the only course I have ever said “that’s outrageous” when it came to price was Shadow Creek. $1,000 is overboard to me. Sure, $500 to play pebble is steep and also a little crazy but at the same time it does have incredible history and is perfectly manicured. I’d gladly pay the $400 fee for Pinehurst. At courses like that the high prices are justified

 

[wubears71]

Honestly the only course I have ever said “that’s outrageous” when it came to price was Shadow Creek. $1,000 is overboard to me. Sure, $500 to play pebble is steep and also a little crazy but at the same time it does have incredible history and is perfectly manicured. I’d gladly pay the $400 fee for Pinehurst. At courses like that the high prices are justified

The comments are comical on FB when the different golf magazines and bigger sites publish best public courses to play. It’s as if every course should be <$100 and anything else is just the golf courses sticking it to golfers.

 

[JB]

Honestly the only course I have ever said “that’s outrageous” when it came to price was Shadow Creek. $1,000 is overboard to me. Sure, $500 to play pebble is steep and also a little crazy but at the same time it does have incredible history and is perfectly manicured. I’d gladly pay the $400 fee for Pinehurst. At courses like that the high prices are justified

Honestly how is that any different than most private clubs? Those who want to pay to play them, can join and those that don't want to, do not have to.

 

[BuffaloPlunger]

Honestly how is that any different than most private clubs? Those who want to pay to play them, can join and those that don't want to, do not have to.

My position was more along the lines of it would be nice to have an opportunity to play said course at least once. I’d be more than happy with very limited tee time availability and pricey greens fee. And again, this is geared towards more “well-known” courses as I believe private courses have their place. Would I like access to more Top 100 courses, yes. Do I think every Top 100 course should have open doors or should be forced to open their doors, no. If someone is willing to shell out $300-500 to play a round, why not give limited access to a handful of groups a day as a one time deal?

 

[CBaker]

I don't even belong to a club but I can say that if I did, I would absolutely not want it to be open to the public. Guests of members absolutely, that's all I've ever been anyway. But to me it's not an elitest attitude IMO, it's a "we're all invested in this place and you're not", at least for the most part. There are definitely some status symbol clubs out there, or at least members who may use the fact that they belong to a club as a status symbol - but for the most part it's more of a "we are paying to be invested and to get a certain experience" from what I have been around, and you lose that by being open to the public.

Any semi-private course I've ever been around does not seem any what private at all.

I certainly wouldn't want to pay and be invested in my car and all of a sudden it become a ride share without me knowing.

 

[JB]

My position was more along the lines of it would be nice to have an opportunity to play said course at least once. I’d be more than happy with very limited tee time availability and pricey greens fee. And again, this is geared towards more “well-known” courses as I believe private courses have their place. Would I like access to more Top 100 courses, yes. Do I think every Top 100 course should have open doors or should be forced to open their doors, no. If someone is willing to shell out $300-500 to play a round, why not give limited access to a handful of groups a day as a one time deal?

Ill be honest, its a bit confusing. You think private courses are okay, except for ones you might want to play. Yet have the ability to play courses, but don't want to join, because you might only want to play once.

You can understand how it might be confusing, as it basically comes off as I want the right to play where I want...

Golf courses and country clubs host a variety of things such as member guests, etc. Heck, THP Experiences are hosted at some of the finest in the country. There are ways to play at amazing places, but the doors are already open at most, for those that want them. Join.

 

[wadesworld]

I also see that opening up for non-members could be good for the sport and likewise maybe our country club if looking for new members.

There are so many really good private golf courses around me and only a few overcrowded good public courses. I would love to see a couple of the privates open up maybe once a quarter, semi-annually, or even just once a year to non-members the ability to play such a great course. It would be great for the sport and even if I were a member, I wouldn't mind seeing that happen on a very limited basis.

I don’t think your first paragraph is viable.

Ninety-nine percent of people who are a real candidate to join a club realize you can call the membership coordinator, get a tour, and almost always get a round of golf before you make a decision. Or even more frequently, they’re friends with a member and have previewed the course by playing as a guest.

In short, I don’t think you’d generate enough members to make it worthwhile. People would pretend they were interested just to get the tee time.

However, the idea of opening it up one day a year just to let golfers experience it and perhaps enhance interest in the game world be a cool thing.

If I were a private course I’d do it via a charity raffle: Everyone who donates $x amount is entered into a drawing to win one of 5 tee times each year.

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[BuffaloPlunger]

Ill be honest, its a bit confusing. You think private courses are okay, except for ones you might want to play. Yet have the ability to play courses, but don't want to join, because you might only want to play once.

You can understand how it might be confusing, as it basically comes off as I want the right to play where I want...

Golf courses and country clubs host a variety of things such as member guests, etc. Heck, THP Experiences are hosted at some of the finest in the country. There are ways to play at amazing places, but the doors are already open at most, for those that want them. Join.

I understand how it may be confusing. I’ll provide a specific example. Tara Iti in New Zealand is mega private with an unknown guest list similar to Augusta. They provide non members an opportunity to play the course one time through filling out an application and paying a fee. That is something that I think, if were more common, would be very cool.

Sure anyone can join a private club but not everyone has the network or resources to join/play the Oakmonts and Rivieras of the world. Would I ever force courses to adopt something like that? No. Would it be cool if more of them said “Hey, it’s okay if we give a couple of people a chance to play this awesome course at least once in their lifetime”? Yes!

 

[Elmave]

I know locally and im sure Nationally many if not most Private Clubs host Tournaments on Mondays. All to benefit a charity or organization. So as a practical matter everyone has the ability to play in one of these Tournaments at a Private Club in the area while at the same time helping out an organization or charity. Over the years that is how I got to see and play at many of the Local Private Clubs ( other than being invited to play as a guest with a member at a Club ) so there are ways for people who don't want to join a Club to play it. As @JB said " There are ways to play at amazing places ". And as I said before there are Courses out there open to the Public and there are places for people to play golf if they can't or choose not to join a club.

 

[fuffle master]

I don’t think your first paragraph is viable.

Ninety-nine percent of people who are a real candidate to join a club realize you can call the membership coordinator, get a tour, and almost always get a round of golf before you make a decision. Or even more frequently, they’re friends with a member and have previewed the course by playing as a guest.

In short, I don’t think you’d generate enough members to make it worthwhile. People would pretend they were interested just to get the tee time.

However, the idea of opening it up one day a year just to let golfers experience it and perhaps enhance interest in the game world be a cool thing.

If I were a private course I’d do it via a charity raffle: Everyone who donates $x amount is entered into a drawing to win one of 5 tee times each year.

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I have to take back a bit of my comment.

I recently found that we have a program in our area that anyone can join and for a fee play different private courses on certain scheduled dates throughout the session. Are any of these courses Oakmont or Merion? Of course not, but they are private, and giving outside people a chance to play on the course once a year is a very nice thing to do.

I also don't think any private course should be forced to allow outside members to play. I might not have portrayed that in my first post. I just said I see both sides of the coin and that is usually my MO. I tend to try and see many sides to every die and hear things out.

I still say it would be really cool and I do believe it better for the game as a whole if the uber private famous courses like Augusta had for one day a year open to the public tee times won by a lottery and a large fee. However, it would be just that, something that is cool and not something they should ever be guilted in or forced to do.