"Jacked" Lofts in 2020

[93civiccpe]

I'm one who had played 'traditional' lofts for a long time and struggled when I first went to stronger lofts primarily because I knew what distance for which club. I got a SC200 launch monitor and now just map out my clubs for comparison and trust it. I do believe we could get to a point where you need more and more wedges but this might not be a bad thing if you get more customization in them.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

Man I can’t disagree with this more. The idea that there’s no difference just blows my mind.

OK. I haven't tried every model so I simply assumed from the tech writing that I've read that such was true.
There's a difference between my old DCI 962s and my new T300s, but to me, it's mostly the things we've been talking about.
I don't play off an 8 or 9 anymore, although I did break eighty four times last summer. I shot some near bowling scores as well.

 

[arydolphin]

This thread has been interesting, and I can't wait for something that could ratchet up the conversation even more this week...

Where were you last night when I said this exact same thing?

And don't worry, you can definitely be on THP when you're in the hospital, you're not doing the hard work anyways.....

 

[tahoebum]

Club heads have gotten larger, easier to launch and more speed around the perimeter. No different than drivers.

Then add the idea that modern fitting exists and it’s far easier to take length off a club than add it and you have a very easy recipe.

They have indeed on average but a 1982 set of Ping Eye 2’s have a lower CG, more perimeter weighting and as a result are easier launching and more forgiving than my 2018 Z765 irons.

 

[SquirrelyDave]

OK. I haven't tried every model so I simply assumed from the tech writing that I've read that such was true.
There's a difference between my old DCI 962s and my new T300s, but to me, it's mostly the things we've been talking about.
I don't play off an 8 or 9 anymore, although I did break eighty four times last summer. I shot some near bowling scores as well.

There’s a lot that can be done within an iron head, as strange as it sounds, to move weight and tweak assorted things to change flights, and forgiveness. So while you’ll find sets targeted to similar golfer types across all the major brands, what each iron head is trying to accomplish is different, and even where they’re trying to do similar things they go about it different ways.

While we’re talking about irons here, let me use putters as an example. All putter companies want to make a putter that makes it easier to get the little stupid ball in the stupid little hole (putting is hard ) Lets look at two recently announced putters.

Odyssey:



Tour Edge:



(Pictures shamelessly stolen from the internet)


Both of these putters are trying to do the exact same thing, help you line up the ball and get it to the hole. They’re both using great tech ideas to accomplish their goals. They’re WILDLY different though, even though they’re similar shapes, they‘re using different tech to help the golfer see the line better. What works for me may not work for you.

Iron designs are much the same way, each company has an idea they believe will work, it’s up to you the consumer to determine which one actually works for you. We’re lucky in this day an age to have access to all kinds of tools to help us make that decision. Getting fit for the right clubs has always been the best way to know, now that holds true more than ever. We have all kinds of data available to us, we just have to make use of it.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

Is the Odyssey designed to work with a similarly marked Callaway ball?

I use a hickory shafted replica of a 1930s Spalding model, the Tad Moore Chicopee.

I can't putter any better with the latest from Evnroll, Scotty, or even my paisan, Bettinardi.

May as well look stylish missing that five footer.

 

[SquirrelyDave]

Is the Odyssey designed to work with a similarly marked Callaway ball?

I use a hickory shafted replica of a 1930s Spalding model, the Tad Moore Chiopee.

I can't putter any better with the latest from Evnroll, Scotty, or even my paisan, Bettinardi.

May as well look stylish missing that five footer.

The ball helps for sure. There’s a whole thread on those putters:

Odyssey Triple Track Putters

Every year at #TheGrandaddy THPers get an inside look at some of the most innovative equipment and designs coming from Callaway/Odyssey. This year was no exception. We’ve all seen the Mavrik lineup, and whether you are a fan or not, there is no denying Callaway and Odyssey are constantly pushing...

www.thehackersparadise.com

I was just using them as an example of how companies might try to accomplish the same thing multiple ways, as a proof that not all clubs are the same, and people should try to find what works for them, versus just buying blind.

 

[KingSinghUNLTD]

What irons have that little gap? My Hot Metal irons had 3° gaps from 4-6 irons. I have Epic Forged irons now and they are all 3° from 4-7 iron.
Even in the wood you will usually always see a minimum of 3 degrees also.

I play Callaway irons and was looking to upgrade to Apex 19 so I’ll just use that as an example for sake of convenience only.

Apex 19 3i is 19*, 4i is 21* and 5i is 23.5* - gaps of 2* and 2.5*. I’m certain I can find more egregious examples.

More significant for me was 9i with 38.5*, PW with 43* and AW with 48*. This was the deal breaker for me since it meant an extra gap wedge was needed. No thank you, I’ll stick with the Apex CF16 and the of Apex that I already have or find something with more agreeable/reasonable lofts in the irons I hit most often.

 

[Snickerdog]

There’s a lot that can be done within an iron head, as strange as it sounds, to move weight and tweak assorted things to change flights, and forgiveness. So while you’ll find sets targeted to similar golfer types across all the major brands, what each iron head is trying to accomplish is different, and even where they’re trying to do similar things they go about it different ways.

While we’re talking about irons here, let me use putters as an example. All putter companies want to make a putter that makes it easier to get the little stupid ball in the stupid little hole (putting is hard ) Lets look at two recently announced putters.

Odyssey:

View attachment 8923526

Tour Edge:
View attachment 8923527


(Pictures shamelessly stolen from the internet)


Both of these putters are trying to do the exact same thing, help you line up the ball and get it to the hole. They’re both using great tech ideas to accomplish their goals. They’re WILDLY different though, even though they’re similar shapes, they‘re using different tech to help the golfer see the line better. What works for me may not work for you.

Iron designs are much the same way, each company has an idea they believe will work, it’s up to you the consumer to determine which one actually works for you. We’re lucky in this day an age to have access to all kinds of tools to help us make that decision. Getting fit for the right clubs has always been the best way to know, now that holds true more than ever. We have all kinds of data available to us, we just have to make use of it.

 

[Tevenor]

I play Callaway irons and was looking to upgrade to Apex 19 so I’ll just use that as an example for sake of convenience only.

Apex 19 3i is 19*, 4i is 21* and 5i is 23.5* - gaps of 2* and 2.5*. I’m certain I can find more egregious examples.

More significant for me was 9i with 38.5*, PW with 43* and AW with 48*. This was the deal breaker for me since it meant an extra gap wedge was needed. No thank you, I’ll stick with the Apex CF16 and the of Apex that I already have or find something with more agreeable/reasonable lofts in the irons I hit most often.

Did you hit them? How far is the distance gap vs the loft gap?

 

[mikeg_74]

I play Callaway irons and was looking to upgrade to Apex 19 so I’ll just use that as an example for sake of convenience only.

Apex 19 3i is 19*, 4i is 21* and 5i is 23.5* - gaps of 2* and 2.5*. I’m certain I can find more egregious examples.

More significant for me was 9i with 38.5*, PW with 43* and AW with 48*. This was the deal breaker for me since it meant an extra gap wedge was needed. No thank you, I’ll stick with the Apex CF16 and the of Apex that I already have or find something with more agreeable/reasonable lofts in the irons I hit most often.

What were your yardage gaps? I know the lofts say one thing, but you gap to fill a yardage needed not what is stamped on the iron.

 

[Golf Ghost]

I never thought loft specs would stop people from playing\trying clubs.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

I never thought loft specs would stop people from playing\trying clubs.

It happens.

 

[Snickerdog]

I play Callaway irons and was looking to upgrade to Apex 19 so I’ll just use that as an example for sake of convenience only.

Apex 19 3i is 19*, 4i is 21* and 5i is 23.5* - gaps of 2* and 2.5*. I’m certain I can find more egregious examples.

More significant for me was 9i with 38.5*, PW with 43* and AW with 48*. This was the deal breaker for me since it meant an extra gap wedge was needed. No thank you, I’ll stick with the Apex CF16 and the of Apex that I already have or find something with more agreeable/reasonable lofts in the irons I hit most often.

While those irons are gapped the way you described, would you really play the 3 iron or even the 4 iron? As far as the bottom of the bag, 5° gaps in wedges are not as uncommon as people think nowadays. Mine are 5° between PW and AW then 4° for the 3 specialty wedges.

 

[KingSinghUNLTD]

Quesation for you. Why do you play your driver at 7.5*?
Becuase it fits your game best, right? If you put a 5.5* driver it wouldn’t carry further, right? Just like if you took 5 drivers that were all 10.5* they wouldn’t automatically go the same distance, because spin and launch varies, correct?

So why is their an immediate assumption that loft is the only determining factor in distance if every golfer already knows it isnt.

Sure but let’s take the discussion to the other end of the bag and soon enough we’ll be asked to use 43* for green side bunkers. LOL ridonkulous

 

[Golf Ghost]

It happens.

I've heard of looks plenty of times, though this thread has opened my eyes for sure.

Been some great discussion from a lot of different thought processes

 

[Jman]

 

[KingSinghUNLTD]

While those irons are gapped the way you described, would you really play the 3 iron or even the 4 iron? As far as the bottom of the bag, 5° gaps in wedges are not as uncommon as people think nowadays. Mine are 5° between PW and AW then 4° for the 3 specialty wedges.

So the gapping in lofts is making us play 5 wedges now. Why? If we do that we’ll just have to drop the “unplayable“ 3i. So how does this “technology” help the average golfer other than bragging about the 6i or 7i distance?

 

[Tevenor]

So the gapping in lofts is making us play 5 wedges now. Why? If we do that we’ll just have to drop the “unplayable“ 3i. So how does this “technology” help the average golfer other than bragging about the 6i or 7i distance?

What's the difference between 4 wedges and a 9i vs. 5 wedges if they all go the same distance club for club in sequence regardless of lofts?

 

[KingSinghUNLTD]

What's the difference between 4 wedges and a 9i vs. 5 wedges if they all go the same distance club for club in sequence regardless of lofts?

Exactly, why do the OEMs not just number them “correctly” instead of going on this “arms race” of how far the irons go? Marketing dept are geniuses and average consumer is ignorant - LOL

 

[Snickerdog]

So the gapping in lofts is making us play 5 wedges now. Why? If we do that we’ll just have to drop the “unplayable“ 3i. So how does this “technology” help the average golfer other than bragging about the 6i or 7i distance?

By dropping the 3 iron and maybe even the 4 iron you can fill that spot with something that is easier to hit, (a hybrid or fairway wood) so say starting at a 5 iron you will still have the same gapping all the way to the bottom of the bag.
Have to remember, the distance that 6 or 7 iron is giving you is covering those gaps.

 

[Golf Ghost]

Exactly, why do the OEMs not just number them “correctly” instead of going on this “arms race” of how far the irons go? Marketing dept are geniuses and average consumer is ignorant - LOL

I mean, they're still selling the same number of clubs in a set....

 

[KingSinghUNLTD]

By dropping the 3 iron and maybe even the 4 iron you can fill that spot with something that is easier to hit, (a hybrid or fairway wood) so say starting at a 5 iron you will still have the same gapping all the way to the bottom of the bag.
Have to remember, the distance that 6 or 7 iron is giving you is covering those gaps.

Totally agree. Only thing is I have to spend time to figure out exactly what is needed and work through the gapping etc. yet again. The OEMs are simply making life more difficult for the average golfer just so they can boast about the distance of their new irons

 

[KingSinghUNLTD]

I mean, they're still selling the same number of clubs in a set....

True, so what are they gaining. I know I’m losing time figuring out the new set and distances etc. Why make life more difficult for the average golfer.

 

[Tevenor]

Exactly, why do the OEMs not just number them “correctly” instead of going on this “arms race” of how far the irons go? Marketing dept are geniuses and average consumer is ignorant - LOL

Let's flip this around a bit. If you surmizing that a 9i should only go X yards ( hence "correctly"), lets assume 140 yards and it should never go further and a manufacturer makes an iron that makes the ball go faster, spin more, and launch higher but oh know, it now goes 160 yards. You are saying they should increase the loft to make the iron go less far to hit the "correct" distance of 140 yards. So now you have a 9i that is delofted and weak instead of strong. Is that still ok? I mean it would be a traditional 9i but with the loft of a PW, right