Major lie angle adjustments messing with my head. What to do?

[ammac]

I’ve been playing this combo set of Mizuno Pros for nearly a year. I have an upright swing, so the original fitter ordered them all +2. I never checked the lie angle, but always noticed a little more dirt on the toe from each divot. Decided to go to my local Club Champion for a lie fitting and discovered that my clubs were not +2* and some were flatter than standard! Or at least we think that was the case. Side note, these came out of the Mizuno factory. I’m disappointed in the QC. Too late now.

My fitter spent 3 hours with me on the lie board. Hit. Measure. Bend. Hit again. Repeat as necessary. Concerning issue I noticed watching each club be placed into the digital lie machine was the machines inconsistencies. The fitter kept recalibrating the machine, but the finicky nature of this machine didn’t seem accurate. The fitter continued to bend, tape, and examine the results. With the toe more upright, the strike mark moved towards center and my ball flight was straight to a slight draw. We made a joint call on each club. While I never got the strike mark dead center on the tape, we called most clubs good after bending them 4* or more upright! Sounds like a lot, but several of the clubs initially measured as much as 1* flatter than standard (at least we thought). Because of the “malfunctioning “ machine, I don’t know the exact lie angle of any club.

The litmus test came in yesterday when I headed to the range. The uprightness was definitely noticeable in my shorter irons and less noticeable starting with 7i and up. Turf interaction seemed much improved and more even heel to toe. Ball striking felt center hit. Ball flight definitely favored right to left. My trackman numbers confirmed my in to out swing offset with a slightly shut face. With the toe upright, my swing flaw is on full display. What’s more, setting up over my shorter irons, the look is getting into my head and affecting my swing (I think). Subconsciously, I feel like I need to manipulate the face to prevent a hook. I did hit several great shots hitting my window, producing my desired ball flight. I also hit several solid shots that drew more than desired. I had a right to left wind, so it’s hard to say how much the wind affected my flight.

I woke up at 5:00 am this morning thinking about this! I got what I asked for, but now I’m not sure I like what I have. Do I give it more time to break in the new look or bend back “a little” and see if it gets out of my head? I did all of this yesterday, so it is very early. What to do???

 

[kiwichris]

The set of Mizuno’s I had were also all.of on loft & lie, direct from the factory.

As for the issue, do you have an older set of clubs you can drop in to break the visual you have with the Mizuno’s to see if that resets the mental side?

 

[Hawk]

Tons of people set up with their short irons and wedges closed and don’t realize it. You might have ingrained something subconsciously during the last year.

 

[ammac]

The set of Mizuno’s I had were also all.of on loft & lie, direct from the factory.

As for the issue, do you have an older set of clubs you can drop in to break the visual you have with the Mizuno’s to see if that resets the mental side?

Gave my old set to my son, so nothing on hand. Concerned to hear others have had QC issues with Mizunos coming out of the factory.

 

[ammac]

Tons of people set up with their short irons and wedges closed and don’t realize it. You might have ingrained something subconsciously during the last year.

Likely so. The flat and open look I’ve been playing has made it easy for me to close the club face at impact and produce a draw. Doing the same with the current setup makes my subconscious think “FOUR LEFT!” I played nine holes after my range session and a few swings were total manipulations to keep the face square instead of free swings with full release. I did hit some really good shots on the range.

 

[Bus]

Makes me want to get my loft and lies checked...

 

[Hawk]

Likely so. The flat and open look I’ve been playing has made it easy for me to close the club face at impact and produce a draw. Doing the same with the current setup makes my subconscious think “FOUR LEFT!” I played nine holes after my range session and a few swings were total manipulations to keep the face square instead of free swings with full release. I did hit some really good shots on the range.

I’ve seen some good videos on social about this. A truly square wedge face looks extremely open to me.

 

[Scooby45]

Likely so. The flat and open look I’ve been playing has made it easy for me to close the club face at impact and produce a draw. Doing the same with the current setup makes my subconscious think “FOUR LEFT!” I played nine holes after my range session and a few swings were total manipulations to keep the face square instead of free swings with full release. I did hit some really good shots on the range.

Hearing you are hitting some pretty good shots I think I would give it a little more time. It sounds like you had a good session with the adjustments and keep in my mind you are also adjusting to new sticks.

 

[Doubleb21]

I think you should roll with the adjustments for a few weeks to let the change set in. You hitting good shots new adjustments take a bit to get use to.

 

[kiwichris]

Makes me want to get my loft and lies checked...

 

[blugold]

Forget dirt on the toe, what's the ball flight and impact pattern.

I'm not a precise enough machine to fret about EVERYTHING.

I can pull hook the **** out of an iron by heel dragging the MFer, take a drop and block the bastard out way right. I have a hard time blaming the lie machine at Callaway for me being a dumba**.

 

[MGoBlue]

I got what I asked for, but now I’m not sure I like what I have.

Welcome to golf.

 

[hackitup]

What I’ve found is adjusting my mindset helped me more than trying to manipulate the club or thinking about the setup. As weird as it sounds, it’s freeing to think that whatever happens is on me and not my clubs. My swing has changed over the winter and I think it’s just me reverting to my real swing and forgetting the compensations I added with incorrectly fit clubs. Give it some time and work on swinging the club and forget about the results. You’ll adjust eventually.

 

[ammac]

So, I went to Dick's yesterday and they allowed me to use their lie machine. Took a while to figure it out (they didn't know how to use it!), and after measuring each club several times, these are the numbers I came up with. Based on my ONE range session, the scoring clubs were the ones creating the most problem - visually and ball flight. I've been playing +2* for a while and that's how I ordered the clubs. I would have thought that's where my fitting session would have landed. For the 7i and up, the results are pretty close. Those clubs are hittable and vast improvements over the flatter lies I've been playing. The PW is close, but still has a closed look and feel. I'm going to drop the PW to +1.5*. My gw and down are all standard. 4* UP on the 9 and 8 are way too much!! I have another visit scheduled this morning and will have them bent to Standard + 2*. Hopefully the machine will cooperate.

Quick clarification, I've been playing these Mizuno's for over a year. If I suggested they were new, my apologies. They just have a new "look" with the uprightness. .

 

[Tee/Ski]

Gave my old set to my son, so nothing on hand. Concerned to hear others have had QC issues with Mizunos coming out of the factory.

I’m going thru similar issues with Mizuno right now.

Ordered HM Pros +.5” and 2° upright. 2 clubs arrived at standard length and the rest were good at +.5. Several were up to 3 swing weight points off. Needless to say they are building and sending another set. Their QC appears to be nonexistent.

 

[stryper]

Tons of people set up with their short irons and wedges closed and don’t realize it. You might have ingrained something subconsciously during the last year.

I’ve become more aware of this recently, as I’ve been fighting a consistent “pull” with these clubs. There’s a very subtle closing of the club face at address that I won’t even notice unless I specifically look for it.

 

[ammac]

Went back to CC this morning and had my fitter bend the short irons to my desired lie angle. Went +1 on the pw, and +2 on the 9 and 8. Played nine holes today and everything is right as rain. I’ll sleep easy tonight!

 

[Sean]

Whenever I get new irons/wedges I always get the loft and lies checked when they come in, and then annually thereafter.

 

[MGoBlue]

Some forged irons are very soft, and easy to bend. I recommend customers that have soft forging like Mizuno to have lofts and lies checked every 50 rounds, especially if they play on very firm conditions or often hit from range mats.

 

[ammac]

Whenever I get new irons/wedges I always get the loft and lies checked when they come in, and then annually thereafter.

I’ll definitely do the same for future purchases.

In retrospect of my loft and lie fitting experience, its apparent that the “experts” aren’t always experts! I should have spoken up when i noticed the lie machine throwing out inconsistent numbers and my fitter began to get flustered and forgetful about what degree we were moving off of. So many red flags waving, but I was trusting the expert. He did however spend a lot of time with me and was more than willing to make the final readjustments. In the future, I will definitely speak up.

 

[Sean]

I was trusting the expert.

Over time I learned that sometimes the expert needs to be questioned. Regardless, Props to you for sticking with it as you are now happy with the lie angles of your clubs, which is what really matters.

 

[Chef23]

I prefer to base lie angle based on impact location and desired start line. Flatter starts the ball more to the right and upright moves the start line to the left. Obviously hitting the center of the club is important.

 

[MGoBlue]

Over time I learned that sometimes the expert needs to be questioned. Regardless, Props to you for sticking with it as you are now happy with the lie angles of your clubs, which is what really matters.

To be fair, our L&L machine at our shop is finicky. I have to make sure that the head is REALLY clamped in tight so that it doesn’t move when I’m bending. So I have to check how it’s sitting in the machine after a bend to make sure it hasn’t moved in the device.

 

[Phil75070]

Aren't a lot of people skeptical of using a lie board these days, preferring another way to determine the best lie for an individual?

 

[Knot Right]

So, I went to Dick's yesterday and they allowed me to use their lie machine. Took a while to figure it out (they didn't know how to use it!), and after measuring each club several times, these are the numbers I came up with. Based on my ONE range session, the scoring clubs were the ones creating the most problem - visually and ball flight. I've been playing +2* for a while and that's how I ordered the clubs. I would have thought that's where my fitting session would have landed. For the 7i and up, the results are pretty close. Those clubs are hittable and vast improvements over the flatter lies I've been playing. The PW is close, but still has a closed look and feel. I'm going to drop the PW to +1.5*. My gw and down are all standard. 4* UP on the 9 and 8 are way too much!! I have another visit scheduled this morning and will have them bent to Standard + 2*. Hopefully the machine will cooperate.

Quick clarification, I've been playing these Mizuno's for over a year. If I suggested they were new, my apologies. They just have a new "look" with the uprightness. .
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I think that you're on the right track. The golf course really is the best place to test irons IMO. The dirt stain on your clubface after taking a few divots can tell you a lot about your "playing" lie angle should be. Some people may disagree with this technique but it's worked for decades.

I love Mizuno irons and their quality, but they come just a little too flat in the shorter irons for my playing swing. I'd be sending "toe dig" 8-9-W shots 40 yards right of the green until I had them adjusted. I can take most any stock Ping blue dot model iron straight off the rack and be really close, but OEM's like Mizuno I have to tweak them a little upright.

Keep in mind that there are a lot of guys out there bending irons for pay that have no business doing it. I have experienced a few so called club techs that bent my irons without double checking the lofts afterwards. bending the hosel off plane and in some cases making the face look shut.