My fitted irons

[One-T]

I got fitted for the first time this past November, I got rid of my TM RAC irons. They were standard lie and length with regular steel shafts and stock TM grip. I purchased the VR full cavity with a 2 degree upright and 1/2 inch longer shaft and steel stiff shafts. Also, I got a medium grip. I am 6'2.

Since getting my VR's I have had a draw on the ball and been very inconsistent with my iron play. My divots are very consistent (flat) so I think the lenght and lie are ok. I feel like the stiff shaft is too much for me. I was more consistent with my previous irons and I am wondering if the shaft might be what is messing me up. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.

 

[amollerud]

The change in shaft flex could have something to do with the inconsistent ball flight. Going from a standard lie to one that is 2 degrees up will also take some getting used to. Looking at the specs that is quite a change from what you were playing. I guess for me to really get into it I would need to know what it is you are seeing. Pulls, hooks, pushes, etc. Give me a better feel for what type of shots and misses we are seeing and I will see what I can do to help.

 

[One-T]

I am drawing/hooking the ball about 25-30 yards(didnt know which it would be considered. I have never done that before. I am playing my wedges awesome. And I dont draw the ball with my hybrid, 3 wood, or driver. So I am only seeing this with the irons. That is about all I will do when I hit it, problem is, when I aim for the hook/draw, I hit it straight(but not all the time)

I hope this helps a little

 

[amollerud]

I would be curious what some of your static numbers are. It sounds to me like the clubs may be too upright. Do you know what your wrist to floor measure was? What was your swing speed with a 6 iron? I know you said about 6'2" for height...if you could get me the other 2 that would help a ton.

 

[JPsuff]

I got fitted for the first time this past November, I got rid of my TM RAC irons. They were standard lie and length with regular steel shafts and stock TM grip. I purchased the VR full cavity with a 2 degree upright and 1/2 inch longer shaft and steel stiff shafts. Also, I got a medium grip. I am 6'2.

Since getting my VR's I have had a draw on the ball and been very inconsistent with my iron play. My divots are very consistent (flat) so I think the lenght and lie are ok. I feel like the stiff shaft is too much for me. I was more consistent with my previous irons and I am wondering if the shaft might be what is messing me up. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.

A couple of questions:

Did the fitter recommend the longer clubs and a more upright lie, or was that your idea?

Why didn't the fitter check you out on a lie board to determine if the new lengths and lies were adjusted properly?

Could it be that you wanted longer / more upright clubs because you were trying to change your swing and that may have "worked" when you were fitted but you have gone back to a flatter swing and not realized it?

People are creatures of habit. If you want to do something rather major like changing your natural swing plane, it's going to take quite a bit of time to "erase" your old muscle-memory and ingrain the more upright setup, so it's quite likely that you may have simply drifted back to what's been familiar to you for so long and that is now wreaking havoc with your longer, more upright clubs.

I've always felt that unless you can vigorously monitor yourself in order to maintain a major swing change, it's best not to try. I believe that everyone has a basic swing profile that's "normal" for them and that fitting a set of clubs around THAT profile is far easier, more beneficial and requires far less maintenance than trying to create a new profile - especially if doing so requires significant changes in club specs.

Most pro's, who have unlimited access to the game and to any and all manner of coaching and equipment technology are loath to make major changes. But if they do decide to change something, they resign themselves to the fact that (depending on the extent of the change), they may not be "normal" for months and possibly years until their bodies grow accustomed to the change. With this in mind, the notion of amateurs - especially weekend players - making major changes to swings and setups is quite often a fool's errand for obvious reasons.

Fit the tool to the job, not the job to the tool.


-JP

 

[One-T]

I would be curious what some of your static numbers are. It sounds to me like the clubs may be too upright. Do you know what your wrist to floor measure was? What was your swing speed with a 6 iron? I know you said about 6'2" for height...if you could get me the other 2 that would help a ton.

Thanks so much, I will get that info as soon as possible. I know my swing speed a year ago was 112. But I forget the lenght from wrist to floor and dont have the tools to measure that at work. But I will get it to you. thanks so far!

A couple of questions:

Did the fitter recommend the longer clubs and a more upright lie, or was that your idea?

Why didn't the fitter check you out on a lie board to determine if the new lengths and lies were adjusted properly?

Could it be that you wanted longer / more upright clubs because you were trying to change your swing and that may have "worked" when you were fitted but you have gone back to a flatter swing and not realized it?

People are creatures of habit. If you want to do something rather major like changing your natural swing plane, it's going to take quite a bit of time to "erase" your old muscle-memory and ingrain the more upright setup, so it's quite likely that you may have simply drifted back to what's been familiar to you for so long and that is now wreaking havoc with your longer, more upright clubs.

I've always felt that unless you can vigorously monitor yourself in order to maintain a major swing change, it's best not to try. I believe that everyone has a basic swing profile that's "normal" for them and that fitting a set of clubs around THAT profile is far easier, more beneficial and requires far less maintenance than trying to create a new profile - especially if doing so requires significant changes in club specs.

Most pro's, who have unlimited access to the game and to any and all manner of coaching and equipment technology are loath to make major changes. But if they do decide to change something, they resign themselves to the fact that (depending on the extent of the change), they may not be "normal" for months and possibly years until their bodies grow accustomed to the change. With this in mind, the notion of amateurs - especially weekend players - making major changes to swings and setups is quite often a fool's errand for obvious reasons.

Fit the tool to the job, not the job to the tool.


-JP

Thanks for the feedback JP. I did go to a pro to get fit. He did have me swing on a lie board many many times and he had me fitted for the 2 degree upright and the 1/2 longer shaft. I have big hands so he recomended that I get the medium grips. My concern is the stiff shaft but after hearing what amollerud said, the 2 degree upright may not have been the best for me. I have not changed my swing, or maybe I have. Right now I am just a confused golfer in need of help. I am going to meet with my friend who is a pro sometime to help get some answers but I def am going to get my specs to Amollerud. Thanks again for the feedback

 

[JPsuff]

Thanks for the feedback JP. I did go to a pro to get fit. He did have me swing on a lie board many many times and he had me fitted for the 2 degree upright and the 1/2 longer shaft. I have big hands so he recomended that I get the medium grips. My concern is the stiff shaft but after hearing what amollerud said, the 2 degree upright may not have been the best for me. I have not changed my swing, or maybe I have. Right now I am just a confused golfer in need of help. I am going to meet with my friend who is a pro sometime to help get some answers but I def am going to get my specs to Amollerud. Thanks again for the feedback

Please don't think that I'm reprimanding you or that I'm calling you a liar (I have a tendency to come off that way sometimes), but the whole "2 degree" thing is what's bugging me.

It sounds as if the guy who fitted you knows what he's doing and if so, he obviously saw a need to change your lie angle and in fact you say that he had you swing on a lie board "many times" to confirm his suggestion. But when you're out on the course, you're pulling everything and that suggests that your lies are too upright and the heel of the club is contacting the ground causing the face to shut at impact.

There are two things I know to be true about human nature and they are that when we do things for a "first time" or if we are being "judged" (as in a professional fitting), we tend to put our best foot forward and the other is that under pressure, we tend to revert back to things that are familiar.

I'm just wondering if you weren't putting your best posture forward at the fitting, which is likely to have brought your hands up a bit higher at the time and thus demonstrate a need for more upright lies, but when you went back out on the course (under pressure), you revert back to a more "slouchy" stance which would easily explain the pulls.

I'm six-foot even and you say you're six-two. It's been my experience that taller people tend to slouch more in golf than shorter people and I know that I've developed a rather noticeable slouch over the years and for a long time I didn't even realize I was doing it. I'm working on that, but you'd be surprised at how easily I go back to old habits out on the course because they're familiar, yet I can go to a driving range and maintain proper posture all of the time. One situation is relaxed and the other is under pressure.

I'm not saying that you aren't being truthful with your account of your fitting or with the fitter himself. I'm simply suggesting that what you showed him at the fitting may not be exactly what you do "in real life" out on the course and you may not even realize that's what happened.

Like I said, I'm not judging, it's just an observation based on the fact that a two-degree change in lie is significant and there has to be a reason for why the pro suggested that.


-JP

 

[One-T]

Please don't think that I'm reprimanding you or that I'm calling you a liar (I have a tendency to come off that way sometimes), but the whole "2 degree" thing is what's bugging me.

It sounds as if the guy who fitted you knows what he's doing and if so, he obviously saw a need to change your lie angle and in fact you say that he had you swing on a lie board "many times" to confirm his suggestion. But when you're out on the course, you're pulling everything and that suggests that your lies are too upright and the heel of the club is contacting the ground causing the face to shut at impact.

There are two things I know to be true about human nature and they are that when we do things for a "first time" or if we are being "judged" (as in a professional fitting), we tend to put our best foot forward and the other is that under pressure, we tend to revert back to things that are familiar.

I'm just wondering if you weren't putting your best posture forward at the fitting, which is likely to have brought your hands up a bit higher at the time and thus demonstrate a need for more upright lies, but when you went back out on the course (under pressure), you revert back to a more "slouchy" stance which would easily explain the pulls.

I'm six-foot even and you say you're six-two. It's been my experience that taller people tend to slouch more in golf than shorter people and I know that I've developed a rather noticeable slouch over the years and for a long time I didn't even realize I was doing it. I'm working on that, but you'd be surprised at how easily I go back to old habits out on the course because they're familiar, yet I can go to a driving range and maintain proper posture all of the time. One situation is relaxed and the other is under pressure.

I'm not saying that you aren't being truthful with your account of your fitting or with the fitter himself. I'm simply suggesting that what you showed him at the fitting may not be exactly what you do "in real life" out on the course and you may not even realize that's what happened.

Like I said, I'm not judging, it's just an observation based on the fact that a two-degree change in lie is significant and there has to be a reason for why the pro suggested that.


-JP

I definately dont feel like you are calling me a liar or any other derogatory name. I know exactly what you are saying and can see that it could have been possible. I have a slouchy relaxed posture anyway, so I can almost gaurantee I get slouchy.

The way that it was decided was that I went through the Ping fitting and based on what I git the best is what I got. he also used the tape at the bottom. So, not only was my decision based on what the PING system said I should have but also I went by FEEL. Not to mention a much better ball flight. I have never had lessons and I KNOW I have some bad habits.

A big part of me wants to just get back to the standard set. I am going to go to a place I can hit a few sets and make my decision that way. So we will see.

But I am not mad at you or I did not take anything negative, I truly enjoy feedback and want to improve my game.

 

[JPsuff]

I definately dont feel like you are calling me a liar or any other derogatory name. I know exactly what you are saying and can see that it could have been possible. I have a slouchy relaxed posture anyway, so I can almost gaurantee I get slouchy.

The way that it was decided was that I went through the Ping fitting and based on what I git the best is what I got. he also used the tape at the bottom. So, not only was my decision based on what the PING system said I should have but also I went by FEEL. Not to mention a much better ball flight. I have never had lessons and I KNOW I have some bad habits.

A big part of me wants to just get back to the standard set. I am going to go to a place I can hit a few sets and make my decision that way. So we will see.

But I am not mad at you or I did not take anything negative, I truly enjoy feedback and want to improve my game.

If you're dealing with Ping, then you should be able to resolve whatever issues you are having. Although I am not a fan of the Ping design, I will be the first to say that I think the Ping fitting system is one the best in the world. They are a mass-produced club that really has a custom feel and they really can make a "made-to-order" set right down to the swingweight.

I'm glad that you understand what I was trying to say. I sometimes hesitate to offer an opinion about certain things because I know that if done improperly, it can come off as arrogant or didactic and that's never my intention.

Good luck and I hope you can solve your problem!


-JP

 

[One-T]

If you're dealing with Ping, then you should be able to resolve whatever issues you are having. Although I am not a fan of the Ping design, I will be the first to say that I think the Ping fitting system is one the best in the world. They are a mass-produced club that really has a custom feel and they really can make a "made-to-order" set right down to the swingweight.

I'm glad that you understand what I was trying to say. I sometimes hesitate to offer an opinion about certain things because I know that if done improperly, it can come off as arrogant or didactic and that's never my intention.

Good luck and I hope you can solve your problem!


-JP

I didnt buy PING but I used the system to figure out what to go with. Was I off base by using the PING system for Nike clubs? Your input Amollerud?

Well JP, your input is great! I am glad you chimed in. Thanks and I hope I can too. I have a buddy rady to buy my set if I give him the go. I just dont want to get rid of a good set if I shouldnt

 

[Bortass]

Did you ever do the wrist to floor measurement that Amollerud asked for?

I'm 6'1 and when I got fitted years ago it was for clubs 1 inch longer then standard. I went into the local Dick's 6 weeks ago and learnt something interesting. I should be playing standard length clubs. The pro there is short, 5'7 ish and my fingers are closer to the floor then his when we stood side by side. This guy also fitted Larry Bird to a set of clubs once and he had standard length as well.

My 'fitting' was just based on the fact I was tall, not how far my wrist was from the floor. Just wondering if yours was the same way or not.

 

[amollerud]

Tha Shanks the problem that you run into is there is no standard. The lie angle for the nike is 62 while the ping is 61. So that could be some of it. Get me that measure and I will get you a stactic fitting recommendation.

 

[One-T]

ok, 36.5 is my measurement and swing speed is 108 with a 6 iron

 

[amollerud]

I will give the shorter answer here. First the swing speed is throwing up a flag. But lets look at the static numbers. With the info you have for me I would static fit you into a 6 iron that is 37.5 inches long and the lie angle for you is a bit tricky you fall between a 62 and 63 degree lie angle. This is where some dynamic measures would pay off.

That being said the standard length and lie of the Nike VR is 37.5 inches and 62* lie angle. You went plus 1/2 inch and 2* upright. The stock club would fit you better than the custom from my point of view. The only thing to look at would be the dynamic fit to see if 62 or 63 would be a little better.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[One-T]

I will give the shorter answer here. First the swing speed is throwing up a flag. But lets look at the static numbers. With the info you have for me I would static fit you into a 6 iron that is 37.5 inches long and the lie angle for you is a bit tricky you fall between a 62 and 63 degree lie angle. This is where some dynamic measures would pay off.

That being said the standard length and lie of the Nike VR is 37.5 inches and 62* lie angle. You went plus 1/2 inch and 2* upright. The stock club would fit you better than the custom from my point of view. The only thing to look at would be the dynamic fit to see if 62 or 63 would be a little better.

Hope this makes sense.

This makes perfect sense. I really appreciate your time on this! It opened my eyes a ton! Thanks again

 

[bluefood]

Question to Shanks
Can you go back to the fitter to "fine tune"?

To everyone:
Not trying to be clever or insulting but shouldn't fitted clubs play better right out of the gate? I'm thinking about doing a fitting soon...

I have this pet theory that one's swing adjusts to one's equipment so if I were you I would run back to the fitter asap.

 

[royalwulff]

Question to Shanks
Can you go back to the fitter to "fine tune"?

To everyone:
Not trying to be clever or insulting but shouldn't fitted clubs play better right out of the gate? I'm thinking about doing a fitting soon...

I have this pet theory that one's swing adjusts to one's equipment so if I were you I would run back to the fitter asap.

I think that it would depend on how much was changed in your fitting. A friend of mine was fitted early lat year and with the changes it took him a while to adjust to the different club length, weight and lie. Once he got used to them he is now bombing it and has dropped his HI by 2.

 

[One-T]

Question to Shanks
Can you go back to the fitter to "fine tune"?

To everyone:
Not trying to be clever or insulting but shouldn't fitted clubs play better right out of the gate? I'm thinking about doing a fitting soon...

I have this pet theory that one's swing adjusts to one's equipment so if I were you I would run back to the fitter asap.

I guess I could go back, but that would mean having to get them bent in a different way and you run the risk of breaking a club. I would just rather sell them. I dont think that you will lower your score "right" away. But I am doin gthings with this I have never done. I would recommend it, but I would go to a couple places mabe. Or a true club fitter. I dont know, I am in a bad boat right now to be giving advice here.

I think that it would depend on how much was changed in your fitting. A friend of mine was fitted early lat year and with the changes it took him a while to adjust to the different club length, weight and lie. Once he got used to them he is now bombing it and has dropped his HI by 2.

I agree, I went through a BIG change, and the THP pro thinks its not right for me. I agree with him, I am hooking the ball, I have NEVER done that consistantly, so I feel like something about my fitting was not right

 

[Br1an_g]

To everyone:
Not trying to be clever or insulting but shouldn't fitted clubs play better right out of the gate? I'm thinking about doing a fitting soon...
.

i dont think the issue here is the club fitting in question, it is because the fitting was for Ping clubs and Nike clubs were purchased. as amollerud has said each manufacturer has different standard set measurements. the custom settings may not be correct for the clubs tha shanks has.

just for a reference point though, i went from a standard set to a set 2 degrees up and it has straightened my iron play up quite a bit. where i used to hook/draw/pull a lot.

 

[One-T]

i dont think the issue here is the club fitting in question, it is because the fitting was for Ping clubs and Nike clubs were purchased. as amollerud has said each manufacturer has different standard set measurements. the custom settings may not be correct for the clubs tha shanks has.

just for a reference point though, i went from a standard set to a set 2 degrees up and it has straightened my iron play up quite a bit. where i used to hook/draw/pull a lot.

Well said. I had mine bent up to "hopefully straighten my irons out. but I have learned that it wasnt done properly. So, that being said, I am now selling my clubs.