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SHAFTIODES BEWARE GOLF TIPS - Mark Crossfield video - NEW

Nippon Shafts
That music at the beginning...
 
Very interesting!!
 
I do agree that shafts don't make nearly as much difference as many of us believe. I'm sure many here will disagree.
 
tahoebum said:
I do agree that shafts don't make nearly as much difference as many of us believe. I'm sure many here will disagree.
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As they say...money talks...BS walks...and it's the same for shaft testing. I remember hitting a Senior shaft Ram 5 wood from my wife's set roughly 15 years ago and it felt so EASY to hit...no drama. Then of course I went back to my X-stiff shafted 5W and beat myself up for bad shots.
 
the great thing is, many of the people who make these shafts tell you pretty much the same thing. you won’t see marked changes in the shaft like you will changes in the head.


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That’s basically exactly what most of us have learned the last few years from events like ShaftUp and THCE with Project X. Shafts aren’t going to change launch and spin drastically, maybe a few hundred revs or a couple degrees of launch. It’s all about feel and how that helps you deliver the club to the ball.
 
so-illhacker said:
That’s basically exactly what most of us have learned the last few years from events like ShaftUp and THCE with Project X. Shafts aren’t going to change launch and spin drastically, maybe a few hundred revs or a couple degrees of launch. It’s all about feel and how that helps you deliver the club to the ball.
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Interesting, so even the shaft makers concede there's basically no difference...it's about feel. I would not have expected that result.
 
See THP Event threads with them or THP TV with every manufacturer. The body reacts to how a shaft is made up.

That’s does not mean it doesn’t matter. Fine tuning matters and absolutely can be done and has been shown on THP too many times to count.
 
I'm going to disagree with this one.

From a performance standpoint, I don't think a shaft is going to make huge differences in terms of launch/spin (and the shaft manufacturers will tell you the same), but where it's going to make a big difference is consistency. A good player can take a few swings with the same shaft on a monitor and get used to a shaft setup then adjust. Then if they take it on course they find they're inconsistent.

That's why the PX/TT folks said last week that when pros are testing new stuff, they give them 3-4 swings, and if it doesn't work that's it. Where a shaft improves performance is that "it just clicks" aspect when weight/profile/flex match the player. Take my shaft - there were relatively small changes made to the test shaft, but in terms of centering up the ball, it's night and day.

This is one area where I think launch monitors can steer people astray if you go about chasing numbers.
 
Mark's job is to sell lessons as much as it is a fitter's job to sell equipment. I keep that in mind when it comes to all of Mark's videos related to equipment. He is on the internet to say that getting fit matters but only inasmuch as a fitting helps you hit the middle of the club face, and from there getting fit into clubs and shafts that you like the look & feel of. That's not a knock on Mark, but it does color all his opinion on gear in my eyes.

Anyone who thinks they're a custom fit away from fixing 8 degrees of face to path disparity deserves to end up with a lesson, IMO. I hope back when Mark was doing them, he was charging extra for a fitting only to turn them into lessons.

I'm not disagreeing with the numbers that were generated on this video except that if there's anyone in his crew who can manipulate their driver swing based on desired/perceived flight, it's Dan. But that would translate to almost any very good player. If you gave most any scratch golfer a set of clubs with different feels or swing-weights than they're used to, you have very few swings before they're making adjustments, conscious or otherwise, and bringing things back to a fairly neutral location. I know because I handed Mark a 7 iron that was .5" long and 2° upright without telling him the specs, and after hitting one hook followed by one straight shot he was able to derive what those irons were bent to and why. That, to me, is something good players do, and more power to them. But good player's numbers may not be altered very much by a custom fitting, whereas someone who is hitting suboptimal equipment for their swing and gear that doesn't fit from a look/feel perspective might get considerably better numbers, regardless of flex, because they don't have the skill or talent to make those adjustments.

I do wonder how things would play out if Dan wasn't told the flex or weight of this or that shaft before he tried it. If you put a lite flex shaft in a club but could convince the player it's a super-light stiff shaft, how different would the numbers be then?
 
mpeterson said:
I'm going to disagree with this one.

From a performance standpoint, I don't think a shaft is going to make huge differences in terms of launch/spin, but where it's going to make a big difference is consistency. A good player can take a few swings with the same shaft on a monitor and get used to a shaft setup then adjust. Then if they take it on course they find they're inconsistent.

That's why the PX/TT folks said last week that when pros are testing new stuff, they give them 3-4 swings, and if it doesn't work that's it. Where a shaft improves performance is that "it just clicks" aspect when weight/profile/flex match the player. Take my shaft - there were relatively small changes made to the test shaft, but in terms of centering up the ball, it's night and day.

This is one area where I think launch monitors can steer people astray if you go about chasing numbers.
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How does a shaft tweak "center up" the ball?
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
How does a shaft tweak "center up" the ball?
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A well fit shaft will have someone delivering the club better, since their body reacts to the forces generated during the swing, which are dependent on the weight, profile, and flex.
 
c.a.eleric said:
the great thing is, many of the people who make these shafts tell you pretty much the same thing. you won’t see marked changes in the shaft like you will changes in the head.


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Agrees. DB's famous line is that the shaft is not made with pixy dust that will magically drop you 1000RPMs on the same swing.
 
ddec said:
Agrees. DB's famous line is that the shaft is not made with pixy dust that will magically drop you 1000RPMs on the same swing.
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Poor Kang.
 
Watched this earlier. First thing I thought is it’s gonna piss a few people here and the other forums off LOL.


#FiberLaunch
 
Paladin said:
Mark's job is to sell lessons as much as it is a fitter's job to sell equipment. I keep that in mind when it comes to all of Mark's videos related to equipment. He is on the internet to say that getting fit matters but only inasmuch as a fitting helps you hit the middle of the club face, and from there getting fit into clubs and shafts that you like the look & feel of. That's not a knock on Mark, but it does color all his opinion on gear in my eyes.

Anyone who thinks they're a custom fit away from fixing 8 degrees of face to path disparity deserves to end up with a lesson, IMO. I hope back when Mark was doing them, he was charging extra for a fitting only to turn them into lessons.

I'm not disagreeing with the numbers that were generated on this video except that if there's anyone in his crew who can manipulate their driver swing based on desired/perceived flight, it's Dan. But that would translate to almost any very good player. If you gave most any scratch golfer a set of clubs with different feels or swing-weights than they're used to, you have very few swings before they're making adjustments, conscious or otherwise, and bringing things back to a fairly neutral location. I know because I handed Mark a 7 iron that was .5" long and 2° upright without telling him the specs, and after hitting one hook followed by one straight shot he was able to derive what those irons were bent to and why. That, to me, is something good players do, and more power to them. But good player's numbers may not be altered very much by a custom fitting, whereas someone who is hitting suboptimal equipment for their swing and gear that doesn't fit from a look/feel perspective might get considerably better numbers, regardless of flex, because they don't have the skill or talent to make those adjustments.

I do wonder how things would play out if Dan wasn't told the flex or weight of this or that shaft before he tried it. If you put a lite flex shaft in a club but could convince the player it's a super-light stiff shaft, how different would the numbers be then?
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The average Joe doesn't have the talent to make adjustments? The guy was swinging a ladies club straight-out. He didn't adjust for anything. in fact, I would have expected him to "adjust" to hit it like crap. Data is data....shafts don't matter, and in fact, the ladies shaft performed equally.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
The average Joe doesn't have the talent to make adjustments? The guy was swinging a ladies club straight-out. He didn't adjust for anything. in fact, I would have expected him to "adjust" to hit it like crap. Data is data....shafts don't matter, and in fact, the ladies shaft performed equally.
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If you’re going to make the “data” claim, then the conclusions are only valid for that one guy hitting those shafts in the video, because that’s all you have data for. Maybe it doesn’t matter for him but the differences are larger for others.

Again I agree that from a performance standpoint (numbers) the effect of a given shaft is overblown by some. But to say it “doesn’t matter” is not correct.
 
mpeterson said:
If you’re going to make the “data” claim, then the conclusions are only valid for that one guy hitting those shafts in the video, because that’s all you have data for. Maybe it doesn’t matter for him but the differences are larger for others.

Again I agree that from a performance standpoint (numbers) the effect of a given shaft is overblown by some. But to say it “doesn’t matter” is not correct.
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Every time Mark posts these videos that reveal shafts don't make any difference, the shaft mavens go into defense mode. The data is the data. The data actually suggests 90% of golfers are nowhere close to discovering any differences between shafts.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
Data is data....shafts don't matter, and in fact, the ladies shaft performed equally.
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here’s where i think speaking in absolutes is not correct. sure, it didn’t matter for this golfer who is in the upper crust of all golfers in the world. but for others, it can absolutely make a difference. but that’s the human reacting to the shaft as much as if not more than the shaft reacting to the human.


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c.a.eleric said:
here’s where i think speaking in absolutes is not correct. sure, it didn’t matter for this golfer who is in the upper crust of all golfers in the world. but for others, it can absolutely make a difference. but that’s the human reacting to the shaft as much as if not more than the shaft reacting to the human.


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Your logic is counter-intuitive. You're saying the top 10% of golfers don't react to wildly different shafts...but the 90% do? IMO it's the opposite.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
The average Joe doesn't have the talent to make adjustments? The guy was swinging a ladies club straight-out. He didn't adjust for anything. in fact, I would have expected him to "adjust" to hit it like crap. Data is data....shafts don't matter, and in fact, the ladies shaft performed equally.
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He outright said he adjusted for what he thought the ball flight would be. He hit down on the lite flex club because he thought it would launch high. That's the adjustment I'm talking about. Give a very good player a club with a lighter flex shaft and tell him it's a lighter flex shaft, or if he intuits it's a bendier shaft, and he'll make adjustments to account for it, real or perceived.

And no, I don't think the average Joe has the talent to make adjustments on purpose. We make enough adjustments on accident.
 
Paladin said:
He outright said he adjusted for what he thought the ball flight would be. He hit down on the lite flex club because he thought it would launch high. That's the adjustment I'm talking about. Give a very good player a club with a lighter flex shaft and tell him it's a lighter flex shaft, or if he intuits it's a bendier shaft, and he'll make adjustments to account for it, real or perceived.

And no, I don't think the average Joe has the talent to make adjustments on purpose. We make enough adjustments on accident.
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Mark said people are seeking a justification to spend 400 (British Pound) upcharge for a shaft because they "don't want" facts to be true. Sorry, most golfers waste a ton of money on shaft hype. Mark is trying to essentially provide a Public Service Announcement to folks who have no clue that golf is about technique, not the shaft.
 
While I can buy these results, it is pretty hard to reconcile this video with the TXG's fitting videos people were geeking out on earlier this week.

I think my main qualm I have with this video, aside from being more anecdotal than fact, is the assumption that Dan is subconsciously hitting down with the ladies shaft because "you know it should go higher." I would posit that the shaft deflection is causing a lower dynamic loft. With that said, I can't prove it, but neither can they.

Having just gone through an extensive fitting, I do feel more comfortable and confident with my new fancy shafts. Was that worth all the upcharges? Worth is subjective, but I enjoyed the experience and I certainly don't feel worse off.
 
sternalot said:
While I can buy these results, it is pretty hard to reconcile this video with the TXG's fitting videos people were geeking out on earlier this week.

I think my main qualm I have with this video, aside from being more anecdotal than fact, is the assumption that Dan is subconsciously hitting down with the ladies shaft because "you know it should go higher." I would posit that the shaft deflection is causing a lower dynamic loft. With that said, I can't prove it, but neither can they.

Having just gone through an extensive fitting, I do feel more comfortable and confident with my new fancy shafts. Was that worth all the upcharges? Worth is subjective, but I enjoyed the experience and I certainly don't feel worse off.
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So you believe Mark and Doug would go out of their way to fabricate results to fit some pre-determined agenda? He's done these video's before...many. Yet folks want to argue with the outcomes....he even states folks like you will argue against the results.
 
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