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Video Short game: Malaska vs Mickelson

boikie

boikie

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Mike Malaska and Phil Mickelson seem to have different approaches to chipping and flop shots.

Regarding chipping, Malaska advices against wrist hinge. See here (2:30):



Whereas Phil is all for wrist hinge, in fact he calls is technique "hinge & hold":



Now let's go to lob shots. Malaska says the key to a good lob shot is setting up with the toe of the clubface touching the ground. See here (1:45):



Mickelson, on the other hand, places importante on opening the clubface. This forces you to set up to the left of the target:



And lastly, ball position is important to Mickelson, whereas Malaska just sets the ball mid-stance.

Any thoughts on this? What technique works best for regular players?
 
Define chipping.
 
i'm not a malaska fan at all, but phil's method is pretty much the opposite of what i think most teachers advocate these days. so i go with malaska here.
 
boikie said:
A near-green shot. The ball doesn't go too high, then rolls.
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Phil's method works better for keeping the bar low and letting it run out. The Malaska method gets the ball up and land softly. Depending on the lie and shot in front of you, both are good options that a player should practice (practice your short game people).

With the lob video, I am pretty sure Phil and Malaska were saying the same thing, especially when compared to Phil's #3.
 
Malaska is teaching scrubs like us. Phil has some of the best hands in golf history. That's the difference.
 
blugold said:
With the lob video, I am pretty sure Phil and Malaska were saying the same thing, especially when compared to Phil's #3.
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They both move the ball forward and place their weight on the lead foot.

They way I see it, the key difference is Mike will have you set up square to the target with a square face, with the toe of the face touching the ground (according to him, this is what makes the ball fly high).

Phil, on the other hand, opens the face a huge amount. He's a lefty, so he sets up to the right of the target so the clubface will be aligned with the target. And he will have the clubface lying flat on the ground, not just the toe touching the turf. Big difference here.
 
DataDude said:
Malaska is teaching scrubs like us. Phil has some of the best hands in golf history. That's the difference.
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In the video Malaska is teaching Jack Nicklaus II. Not a scrub as he played college golf for North Carolina, won the prestigious North-South amateur, played PGA Tour and other tour golf etc... But like lots of accomplished players, in recent years he suffers from chipping yips.
 
I bought Phil's DVD about a dozen years ago and went with it - hinge and hold - Worked great for me. I will still use it occasionally. If I've short sided myself just off the green - opening up a 60 gives it about waist to chest high height a few bounces and stop - a soft shot. He has good tips for chipping out of rough or tight.

For a clean lie, my ball placement is a bit forward with more weight to the front side. Turn a bit, Turn a bit. Chipping, depends - I will hinge slightly depending on the green and where I am.

My stock technique for chipping or pitching is ball forward, weight more forward, club head even with shaft, let go of all lag and use the bounce, if needed. Ala Utley. Looking quickly at Malaska's Flop Vid, he is driving the club head into the ground (purposely to prove his point possibly) so leading edge catches - don't do that - club head and shaft are even or shaft is behind club head at impact if I want more height. Also, if I want more height, my hands are low. Works for me.

I don't do Malaska, and use Phil sparingly. Although I am open to experimenting. So where is the Utley thread so we can confuse everyone?

I can't pay attention to these threads.:ROFLMAO:
 
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McLovin said:
i'm not a malaska fan at all, but phil's method is pretty much the opposite of what i think most teachers advocate these days. so i go with malaska here.
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Malaska videos got my OTT to be even worse than before. lol

While I say that, I agree that I'd go with those tips over FIGJAM's.
 
mjkladis said:
Malaska videos got my OTT to be even worse than before. lol

While I say that, I agree that I'd go with those tips over FIGJAM's.
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i see him like gankas. not saying he knows as much as gankas, but i mean it seems like he has a way of communicating that needs to be done in person, one on one to understand his message. he also reminds me of the coach i had before my current coach. the guy would spend 75% of our lesson talking, instead of letting me dig it out of the dirt and correcting me along the way.
 
DG_1234 said:
In the video Malaska is teaching Jack Nicklaus II. Not a scrub as he played college golf for North Carolina, won the prestigious North-South amateur, played PGA Tour and other tour golf etc... But like lots of accomplished players, in recent years he suffers from chipping yips.
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So he is a scrub at chipping and Phil has some of the best hands in the history of golf. Same difference right?
 
boikie said:
They both move the ball forward and place their weight on the lead foot.

They way I see it, the key difference is Mike will have you set up square to the target with a square face, with the toe of the face touching the ground (according to him, this is what makes the ball fly high).

Phil, on the other hand, opens the face a huge amount. He's a lefty, so he sets up to the right of the target so the clubface will be aligned with the target. And he will have the clubface lying flat on the ground, not just the toe touching the turf. Big difference here.
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Since Malaska didn't mention his stance, I can only assume that the stance didn't stay neutral and he also opened his stance. Either way, this goes to show that there just might not be one way to a short game.
 
Malaska, 💯 but with a few caveats...he is missing two key points:
  1. You need to add "pressure" - grip pressure changes in the swing, and by adding pressure, you stabilize the clubface
  2. You need to keep turning - by turning, you remove the timing and any requirement for good hands and use the bounce properly. This also shallows out the club so it doesn't dig in.
 
I'm not 100% for either one, but I'm closer to Malaska's theories, so he gets my vote.

I don't use a wrist hinge chipping, since I use my putting stroke.

As for my flop shots, I use an open face, and open stance. It's almost identical to my "splat" sand shot, but with more follow through.
 
So this begs the question: does flattening/opening the clubface change ball trajectory?

Phil's answer is YES, since he'll set up to the right of the target so as to have the clubface pointing to the pin.

Now, almost everybody teaching the flop shot with and open face will set up square to the target.

What's your take on this one?
 
blugold said:
They do?
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I'll grant you that I'm just speaking from what I've been seeing on YouTube. Last night I watched at least a dozen different teachers explaining the lob shot. They all did it with an open clubface and a square set up.

So what's the deal here? Does opening the clubface in this shot change ball trajectory?
 
boikie said:
I'll grant you that I'm just speaking from what I've been seeing on YouTube. Last night I watched at least a dozen different teachers explaining the lob shot. They all did it with an open clubface and a square set up.

So what's the deal here? Does opening the clubface in this shot change ball trajectory?
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Are you talking a lob or a flop? I don't think they're the same shot.

I don't know how you even play a shot with an open face but neutral stance. That's hosel city.

Opening the club face is one way to control short game trajectory.
 
McLovin said:
i see him like gankas. not saying he knows as much as gankas, but i mean it seems like he has a way of communicating that needs to be done in person, one on one to understand his message. he also reminds me of the coach i had before my current coach. the guy would spend 75% of our lesson talking, instead of letting me dig it out of the dirt and correcting me along the way.
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I have met and had some instruction from Malaska. He knows as much or more than Gankas. Malaska is a Jim Flick disciple. Very different theory than what Gankas and more modern instructor teach. In person he watches and directs. Producing videos is different. That said what he was teaching didn’t work great for me. Flick and Malaska teach that the arms and hands swing the club and the body turn is in support of the arm swing. Watching Jim Flick hit balls out there in his 70s good distances with just his hands and arms was very impressive.
 
boikie said:
I'll grant you that I'm just speaking from what I've been seeing on YouTube. Last night I watched at least a dozen different teachers explaining the lob shot. They all did it with an open clubface and a square set up.

So what's the deal here? Does opening the clubface in this shot change ball trajectory?
Click to expand...

I don’t watch many YouTube videos they confuse me. When I need to hit it high I do aim my feet slightly left of the target and the clubface at the target. Then I use what Malaska teaches. I think on short shots (not so much out of the sand) that the ball starts in the direction the clubface is aimed. It is not extreme for me though.
 
boikie said:
So this begs the question: does flattening/opening the clubface change ball trajectory?

Phil's answer is YES, since he'll set up to the right of the target so as to have the clubface pointing to the pin.

Now, almost everybody teaching the flop shot with and open face will set up square to the target.

What's your take on this one?
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When you open the face, AND you lower your hands, you must have a square stance to hit the ball straight without hand and arm manipulation. The body moves the club and keeps the face stable.

When you push your hands lower (bunker/flop), that effectively adds lie angle and pushes the direction of the ball left, so it travels along your foot line.

It's the "Why" you need to open the face in a bunker. Most people just say, do this! and don't explain why.
 
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TrueMotionMatt said:
When you open the face, AND you lower your hands, you must have a square stance to hit the ball straight without hand and arm manipulation. The body moves the club and keeps the face stable.

When you push your hands lower (bunker/flop), that effectively adds lie angle and pushes the direction of the ball left, so it travels along your foot line.

It's the "Why" you need to open the face in a bunker. Most people just say, do this! and don't explain why.
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Open the face and keep the feet square to the target line?
 
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