Smithfaced
New member
It's what was available to me to be honest. I never had a lesson in my life and didn't even know what S&T was.
Stack & Tilt thread
It's what was available to me to be honest. I never had a lesson in my life and didn't even know what S&T was.
Smithfaced
New member
By the way, I think this is a very good conversation going on in this thread right now because I know a lot of people have been exposed to S&T and may not know what to think of it all.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Stack and Tilt is awesome but it will destroy your wood game.
I loved it for my long irons through my wedges.
I loved it for my long irons through my wedges.
rbarthle17
One-length advocate
What I have seen is the S&T basics have given me a swing that feels right. It plays to my strong right side and strong hip turn. It puts my body in a position where I just swing and it feels right.
Again I'm a strong advocate of a swing being a natural motion for the person. There's no one right swing in golf and to me the best coaches in any sport will take their players and do what works best for their unique gifts, not pigeonhole them into the coaches myopic view of how to do things.
Again I'm a strong advocate of a swing being a natural motion for the person. There's no one right swing in golf and to me the best coaches in any sport will take their players and do what works best for their unique gifts, not pigeonhole them into the coaches myopic view of how to do things.
Bullitt5339
New member
To be completely honest, if I was in your situation where you're at, I would have done the same thing. I do want to come up there and do the full Aimpoint clinic at some point.
Smithfaced
New member
I agree with this. The basics have given me a good foundation. Out of curiosity, does your instructor teach straight S&T or does he just use parts of it to help his students out?
Smithfaced
New member
That is a different animal there dude. When it comes to short game the guy you are referring to is an absolute genius! I've sat in on many of his lessons and it is absolutely incredible what he teaches.
Bullitt5339
New member
He gave me my first putting lesson a few years back. I went to a 4 hour putting clinic when I first decided to try playing seriously.
rbarthle17
One-length advocate
If by "instructor "you mean the stack and tilt basics videos that you can find on YouTube... ?
I am 100% self-taught. I've always been a very natural athlete, which definitely helps me.
Tadashi70
Well-known member
I know you're the ultimate athlete but how are you sure you doing it right? Even the best have coaches to offer guidance when things go a stray
rbarthle17
One-length advocate
Results are the main determinant. It's not about doing stack and tilt, or any methodology, to an exacting standard. It's about making solid contact with the golf ball and where it lands.
I incorporate the basics of it, and for now that's all I need. The weight forward instantly struck me as right for my body. The straight leg on the backswing is the completely natural result you'd expect when twisting to the right while leaning to the left. The inside out swing is also a natural end result. It just clicks, unlike any other swing motion did before. Keeping my head still and shoulders turning downward is also very easy for me.
Now I don't do it for my driver. My strength is in my strong right side. I tend to be over the top and to maximize power I have to play the driver with a closed stance because at the peak of the power in terms of when to contact is past the bottom when my wrists are in the middle of rolling over. 30 years of a baseball swing will do that to you. So instead of trying to break that habit, I play for it. Weight back, and play for contact later in the downswing. It feels natural, and for the most part I cannot argue with the results.
Putting I tend to do with a slightly open stance. I find it easier to make a smooth stroke and it feels right. I average less than 2 putts per hole most rounds so again I can't argue with the results.
As Arnold says, I "swing my swing".
I have 4 children ages 6 and under. It's all I can do to find time in a week to do basic training. I am sure that proper lessons would help but I haven't the time to commit to it. It's also a lot harder to undo 41 years of muscle memory, if my kids want to take up golf I might suggest they get lessons at an early stage. I do watch a lot of videos and take what feels right and put it in my arsenal. I broke 90 twice this summer, first time ever doing that. I came upon S&T late in the season, but I have high hopes that it will help me keep the game improvements going in terms of my hybrid and mid iron play, which is the weakest part of my game by a mile.
I incorporate the basics of it, and for now that's all I need. The weight forward instantly struck me as right for my body. The straight leg on the backswing is the completely natural result you'd expect when twisting to the right while leaning to the left. The inside out swing is also a natural end result. It just clicks, unlike any other swing motion did before. Keeping my head still and shoulders turning downward is also very easy for me.
Now I don't do it for my driver. My strength is in my strong right side. I tend to be over the top and to maximize power I have to play the driver with a closed stance because at the peak of the power in terms of when to contact is past the bottom when my wrists are in the middle of rolling over. 30 years of a baseball swing will do that to you. So instead of trying to break that habit, I play for it. Weight back, and play for contact later in the downswing. It feels natural, and for the most part I cannot argue with the results.
Putting I tend to do with a slightly open stance. I find it easier to make a smooth stroke and it feels right. I average less than 2 putts per hole most rounds so again I can't argue with the results.
As Arnold says, I "swing my swing".
I have 4 children ages 6 and under. It's all I can do to find time in a week to do basic training. I am sure that proper lessons would help but I haven't the time to commit to it. It's also a lot harder to undo 41 years of muscle memory, if my kids want to take up golf I might suggest they get lessons at an early stage. I do watch a lot of videos and take what feels right and put it in my arsenal. I broke 90 twice this summer, first time ever doing that. I came upon S&T late in the season, but I have high hopes that it will help me keep the game improvements going in terms of my hybrid and mid iron play, which is the weakest part of my game by a mile.
Mystery Meat
Ben Hogan Fan
:act-up: I went to a certified stack and tilt instructor a few years back..and I tried and tried this method. It was weird,, I could hit my long irons and driver perfectly with this method...long high draws. But when it came to mid irons,.I would hit shanks and huge huge hooks. Short irons were all shanks.. She had no clue why I was doing this,..and I was beyond frustrated.. I went from a 7 handicap at the beginning of the season...to not being able to break 80 ..ever.. I was so disappointed, I loved the videos and the book..just couldn't do it at all. So so frustrating. Anyone else run into this? Great long irons and driver.? Crap with rest of clubs?
Bullitt5339
New member
You were coming too far inside. And your results are opposite of most. I could hit short and mid irons like there was no tomorrow, but put a 5 iron or higher in my hands and it wasn't pretty. Somehow you were getting shallow, which for me was impossible.
Mystery Meat
Ben Hogan Fan
To to this day ( and was 5 years ago) ..I'm still disappointed I couldn't do stack and tilt. I loved the book and videos.,loved the whole concept. But in reality, it really ruined my golf game,,even the instructor felt bad. She told me to go back to a conventional golf swing, as she had no way to stop my huge pull hooks ( mid irons) and shanks ( short irons). I tried a glove under left forearm...every tip she tried..and nothing worked. I see a lot of good in stack and tilt.,it felt so powerful. I was just amazed how much hook spin I was able to produce with a 5 iron. I literally would watch the ball hook 30 to 40 yards..it was nuts. Again, I believed in this method..and still do..just saddened I couldn't get it to work. Now I'm doing a Martin ayers type of golf move..works great,,but doesn't feel as powerful as stack and tilt. And my back felt so good doing stack and tilt too,,
sorry to rant..
mm
AZArmyGolfer
Still Walking
I agree 100% I got the vids and practiced it for 5 days and then went out and won overall low net in my club championship. At that point I was a big proponent. Then reality set in. The problems for me were, it is counter to everything I learned and practiced for 35+ years, it makes you steep (destroys your wood game) and it is very hard on your knees. If you are over weight like me, S&T will kill your left knee. I had to abandon it after less than a month because I cannot have two distinctly different swings (irons vs woods). I still do set up with a weight bias to my left side but I don't make the left knee bend on the backswing with the snap back to straight at impact. I found it too much like a reverse pivot only with a left side finish.
Mystery Meat
Ben Hogan Fan
agree..I felt some pain there too...I was so surprised I could do the left shoulder low/ right high backswing. I would've bet a million $ that I would've hurt myself swinging this way..but I didnt
I used stack & tilt for awhile. I had only ever had one lesson in my life, and struggled with consistency after playing for 10 years. Then in 2007 I saw the big Golf Digest write up on S&T. I went to the driving range and practiced it. It immediately felt great to me. My handicap started dropping and I was hitting the ball super-consistent.
Flash forward 6 years to 2013. After the initial improvements in the first year of the swing my game plateaued (I was only playing 1 round a month or less the last couple years, so I was probably a bit rusty). I felt that even though I was much more consistent than before I was missing out on a lot of potential distance, and I had a lot of difficulty controlling ball flight.
So in April of 2013 I decided to switch back. Luckily for me a new golf shop in town offered a free 30-minute lesson (I'm a cheapskate lol). I told the pro where my swing was, and that I wanted to switch back to a more traditional one. We covered a lot for just 30 minutes and I felt like I could pick up the rest by practicing.
I spent this summer on my new swing. The consistency I felt with S&T was still there, but the plateau disappeared. I dropped my handicap 8pts and 2 months ago shot my personal best of 79 (+8).
I know a lot of the improvement comes from playing a lot more this year than in the past. But the feeling I had with the S&T was that I was playing as good as I possibly could (which wasn't good enough for me). Since going back to a traditional swing I can really feel things picking up; like there's no plateau (yet).
Flash forward 6 years to 2013. After the initial improvements in the first year of the swing my game plateaued (I was only playing 1 round a month or less the last couple years, so I was probably a bit rusty). I felt that even though I was much more consistent than before I was missing out on a lot of potential distance, and I had a lot of difficulty controlling ball flight.
So in April of 2013 I decided to switch back. Luckily for me a new golf shop in town offered a free 30-minute lesson (I'm a cheapskate lol). I told the pro where my swing was, and that I wanted to switch back to a more traditional one. We covered a lot for just 30 minutes and I felt like I could pick up the rest by practicing.
I spent this summer on my new swing. The consistency I felt with S&T was still there, but the plateau disappeared. I dropped my handicap 8pts and 2 months ago shot my personal best of 79 (+8).
I know a lot of the improvement comes from playing a lot more this year than in the past. But the feeling I had with the S&T was that I was playing as good as I possibly could (which wasn't good enough for me). Since going back to a traditional swing I can really feel things picking up; like there's no plateau (yet).
rbarthle17
One-length advocate
This is a legitimate question, why is that? I only ask because that is exactly what I have and personally have no issue with it. Please don't take this as "I'm right, you're wrong", I'm just curious why that is for you is all.
Mystery Meat
Ben Hogan Fan
:act-up: Golf hard enough with 1 swings,let alone 2 . When I'm on.im hitting down with all my shots
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Mystery Meat
Ben Hogan Fan
Than an why did they come up with stack and tilt! ? I often wonder this..they both ( plummer and Bennett) mentioned that all teachers will adopt their method.., why such a strong worded start? Kinda cocky IMO...I think people are finally realizing that this is a marketing created swing type..sad say..
personally I think that is where people get confused or experience some back or shoulder pain., the tilted shoulder plane idea.. ( in reality) we all play on a tilted plane..why exaggerate / emphasize it.. Seems like it would make a extremely steep aoa. And by the sound of the thread..the steep aoa caused havoc with all of us who weren't successful
Last edited:
AZArmyGolfer
Still Walking
I'm not a natural athlete so I have to work on one swing to have any hope of consistency. Maybe my muscle memory can only remember one thing at a time. If I have any swing thoughts while I'm swinging the club, I cannot make good contact. I also really have to pay attention to my set up or I get poor results. Up hill, down hill, side hill lies are also problematic for me because I have to adjust my set up.
I've played with guys who just step up and flail at the ball but manage to get decent results and all of them are what I would call natural athletes, they have played or still play other sports at a high level.
AZArmyGolfer
Still Walking
Many players suffer the dreaded reverse pivot, finish with their weight on their back foot. S&T is good at ensuring finishing on your front foot. Also, if you don't have much weight shifting, it simplifies the swing and makes consistent contact more likely. I never had problems finishing on my left side but I did/do struggle with rolling on my right foot and a small hip slide rather than "turning in a barrel." I have largely fixed my foot roll by standing knock kneed which stabilizes my lower body. The more solid my lower body stays, the more consistently I strike the ball.