Starting the swing

[annsguy]

I stink with the driver. I take lessons, hit a ton of balls but i totally stink during a round. My instructor correctly tells me I often starts the driver swing outside. I know I should start the swing with my lead shoulder but suffer getting a feel for that. Perhaps because I’m not relaxed. Any suggestions on getting the first few feet of the driver swing correct.

 

[Luchnia]

I stink with the driver. I take lessons, hit a ton of balls but i totally stink during a round. My instructor correctly tells me I often starts the driver swing outside. I know I should start the swing with my lead shoulder but suffer getting a feel for that. Perhaps because I’m not relaxed. Any suggestions on getting the first few feet of the driver swing correct.

I have some of the same issues and have been working on it. It may be a long thread, but take a look at the Dr. Kwon thread here. It does have some things that might help with getting your pathing right, especially the rope drills.

I will warn you some of the videos are extremely long, but there is some very helpful information presented and you may find it worthwhile. I wouldn't advise to simply jump on the first thing you see, but take your time to find out what you can use to help you.

 

[Carolina Golfer]

have the same problem, had an instructor saying to just (do it) and bring the club inside on the BS. Seems like a band aid to me.

 

[annsguy]

As I’m sure you’d agree, I wish it were that simple. I think I’m fairly relaxed with my irons but go Cave Man with a driver in my hands.

 

[JonMA1]

@annsguy what do you think about the idea that the fix to a habitual flaw is sometimes going to feel so different and awkward to what we currently do that it'll almost seem wrong? Sometimes the change is as minor as keeping the trail elbow from flying, other times it's very different like how you rotate your shoulders and upper torso.

I made a change with my irons this year and the change felt very different. But it made a difference in the result. For some reason, I cannot apply that change to my driver.

 

[Luchnia]

@annsguy what do you think about the idea that the fix to a habitual flaw is sometimes going to feel so different and awkward to what we currently do that'll it'll almost seem wrong? Sometimes the change is as minor as keeping the trail elbow from flying, other times it's very different like how you rotate your shoulders and upper torso.

I made a change with my irons this year and the change felt very different. But it made a difference in the result. For some reason, I cannot apply that change to my driver.

Can you share what change you made with your irons?

 

[Acesteve]

I'd recommend you do this test and see if it puts you on a new learning journey. Assuming you are right handed golfer. Grab your driver with just your left hand. Ensure the club is down in your fingers not your palm. The pinky and next two fingers secure the club. Now turn your left hand to show the Sky more of your left knuckles. At some point you should feel like all you have to do is have the left shoulder turn and the golf club will go what feels like straight back. it isn't. Since the left shoulder is turning it will have a bit of arc on it. Now actually make a backswing and keep the right hand off the club.

The above has greatly simplified the game for me. Figuring out how to put the right hand on the club withour ruininig the natural path of the left hand is a future task.

Virtually every golfer I play with that struggles has a grip that does not let them move naturally so in the first movements of the club they compensate. Those manipulations at the start don't treat us well in the downswing.

as several have mentioned, these changes even if proper feel very strange at first but help explain why after lessons, hundreds of buckets, etc that the swing is still faulty.

 

[Carolina Golfer]

I'd recommend you do this test and see if it puts you on a new learning journey. Assuming you are right handed golfer. Grab your driver with just your left hand. Ensure the club is down in your fingers not your palm. The pinky and next two fingers secure the club. Now turn your left hand to show the Sky more of your left knuckles. At some point you should feel like all you have to do is have the left shoulder turn and the golf club will go what feels like straight back. it isn't. Since the left shoulder is turning it will have a bit of arc on it. Now actually make a backswing and keep the right hand off the club.

The above has greatly simplified the game for me. Figuring out how to put the right hand on the club withour ruininig the natural path of the left hand is a future task.

Virtually every golfer I play with that struggles has a grip that does not let them move naturally so in the first movements of the club they compensate. Those manipulations at the start don't treat us well in the downswing.

as several have mentioned, these changes even if proper feel very strange at first but help explain why after lessons, hundreds of buckets, etc that the swing is still faulty.

Good idea, sometimes, I feel it would be easier to play golf with one hand/arm, lol. One of the pros used to putt that way years ago.

 

[Lane]

I stink with the driver. I take lessons, hit a ton of balls but i totally stink during a round. My instructor correctly tells me I often starts the driver swing outside. I know I should start the swing with my lead shoulder but suffer getting a feel for that. Perhaps because I’m not relaxed. Any suggestions on getting the first few feet of the driver swing correct.

Yes Sir - you pull the shaft back around you with your* dominant right ( or left ) hand* just like you would if you were going to chop a tree down with a hatchet . Don’t worry - your shoulders and lower body will follow your hands and rotate whatever degree is necessary.
Sorry , I can’t make it anymore complicated BC it is NOT .

 

[annsguy]

Yes Sir - you pull the shaft back around you with your* dominant right ( or left ) hand* just like you would if you were going to chop a tree down with a hatchet . Don’t worry - your shoulders and lower body will follow your hands and rotate whatever degree is necessary.
Sorry , I can’t make it anymore complicated BC it is NOT .

Everything I start a swing with my hands my instructor and every other instructor I’ve ever had says to start with the lead shoulder. My Brain says it is a blend of the two

 

[Luchnia]

Everything I start a swing with my hands my instructor and every other instructor I’ve ever had says to start with the lead shoulder. My Brain says it is a blend of the two

Good point about a blend of the two. IMO using a hatchet to chop down a tree has absolutely nothing to do with starting the golf swing and is poor advice. No one pulls a golf shaft around like a hatchet to start a golf swing. Striking a golf ball and chopping down a tree are not even remotely connected.

People start their golf swings in a lot of different ways. Some sort of waggle a bit and start their body moving while others are more armsy. The ground up start appears the best overall. IMO a solid combination of both would probably bring the swing consistency.

If I start with the arms it is more than likely not going to be a good swing and will be more of a hands/arms swing than a solid body swing. That can work for a while but it won't work long for me because control will suffer.

In my case, everything has to work together to start the swing. Just this weekend I was working on a more fluid rhythm in starting the swing from the ground up because of the Kwon drills I was working on. Being a bit weak in the arms and hands department I have to make absolutely sure my swing begins properly and is carried through properly.

It was really a nice smooth totally natural feel and took some pressure off of the swing being too hand dominated which resulted in more consistent shots for a change. I did not see the loss of control that the hands/arms controlled swing brings me. It is probably different for others that have strong arms and hands, but being a weaker older guy I have to use the whole package.

 

[Lane]

Everything I start a swing with my hands my instructor and every other instructor I’ve ever had says to start with the lead shoulder. My Brain says it is a blend of the two

Well - everything we do in life starts with our brain so I highly recommend that. Most people from NC are very smart.I was born there and spent 1/2 of my life there.
Unfortunately, much advice about the golf swing is given without much thought from the brain . You are correct - it is a blend of dominant hands and shoulders. It seems they are connected via the arms. More than 40 % of our brain is dedicated to it’s ** dominant hands ** , but the hands are ** slaves ** to their ** arms ** . They can’t go anywhere unless the arms take them and the arms can’t go anywhere unless the HANDS direct / instruct them to . The same applies to our shoulders / hips knees and / or the rest of those puppets / dummies attached below.
For proof of this sit on a chair and pick up a kitchen knife / ruler / golf grip / ball point pen ( any instrument ) and rotate your hand and arm to the right - CW / right palm facing upward - wrist cocked back side ways as far as possible to form a 90 degree lever between your lower arm and with whatever you chose for a lever .
You will notice that you can perform this simple task while your shoulders are still facing forward. This should satisfy your question so you will understand human genetics . Maybe the attached pics will help in that regard . Cortical Homunculus- check it out .
Yes Sir - brain power is extremely critical to learning ! Use it to find the facts and truths .

 

[Luchnia]

Looks like a derailment approaching.

 

[Lane]

Looks like a derailment approaching.

Luchnia- I am curious. What is your agenda? Why do you have so much trouble with someone listening to others advice and making their own decisions what advice will or will not help them improve?
Is it jealousy or do you think that your advice is ABSOLUTELY WHAT OTHERS SHOULD EXCLUSIVELY LISTEN TO?

 

[blugold]

 

[Desmond]

I have the same issue with driver, irons, wedges - everything came off the rails at the start even though the downswing was decent.

Try a body-driven backswing with relaxed arms and the club going back with the movement of the hips - requires no thought other than moving to the trail leg and turning the hips - see the Dr. Kwon video. Helps tremendously

 

[TheDoctor]

Luchnia- I am curious. What is your agenda? Why do you have so much trouble with someone listening to others advice and making their own decisions what advice will or will not help them improve?
Is it jealousy or do you think that your advice is ABSOLUTELY WHAT OTHERS SHOULD EXCLUSIVELY LISTEN TO?

We could all ask you the same question - regardless of the thread, you constantly repeat the same thing over and over without acknowledgment of any other point of view and dismissing anyone who brings up an alternative option

 

[Luchnia]

Luchnia- I am curious. What is your agenda? Why do you have so much trouble with someone listening to others advice and making their own decisions what advice will or will not help them improve?
Is it jealousy or do you think that your advice is ABSOLUTELY WHAT OTHERS SHOULD EXCLUSIVELY LISTEN TO?

Lane, the agenda is simple. It is the same as the topic- Starting the Swing. The OP is asking any suggestions on getting the first few feet of the driver swing correct. You need to stop derailing these threads, but I am sure the admins will soon take care of it.

 

[Luchnia]

It did not take long, did it?

 

[Puttmaster]

Well - everything we do in life starts with our brain so I highly recommend that. Most people from NC are very smart.I was born there and spent 1/2 of my life there.
Unfortunately, much advice about the golf swing is given without much thought from the brain . You are correct - it is a blend of dominant hands and shoulders. It seems they are connected via the arms. More than 40 % of our brain is dedicated to it’s ** dominant hands ** , but the hands are ** slaves ** to their ** arms ** . They can’t go anywhere unless the arms take them and the arms can’t go anywhere unless the HANDS direct / instruct them to . The same applies to our shoulders / hips knees and / or the rest of those puppets / dummies attached below.
For proof of this sit on a chair and pick up a kitchen knife / ruler / golf grip / ball point pen ( any instrument ) and rotate your hand and arm to the right - CW / right palm facing upward - wrist cocked back side ways as far as possible to form a 90 degree lever between your lower arm and with whatever you chose for a lever .
You will notice that you can perform this simple task while your shoulders are still facing forward. This should satisfy your question so you will understand human genetics . Maybe the attached pics will help in that regard . Cortical Homunculus- check it out .
Yes Sir - brain power is extremely critical to learning ! Use it to find the facts and truths .

Good grief. Every. Single. Thread.

 

[Luchnia]

I have the same issue with driver, irons, wedges - everything came off the rails at the start even though the downswing was decent.

Try a body-driven backswing with relaxed arms and the club going back with the movement of the hips - requires no thought other than moving to the trail leg and turning the hips - see the Dr. Kwon video. Helps tremendously

I think the Dr. Kwon vids can definitely help with starting the swing. I was noticing that the step drills and the centering drills will help on starting the swing. Even though we don't step or swing when we strike the ball, that feeling can be good for initiating a smooth swing. We had snow and cold around here yesterday, but I hope to get back in my shop tomorrow and work on this some more.

 

[Luchnia]

I stink with the driver. I take lessons, hit a ton of balls but i totally stink during a round. My instructor correctly tells me I often starts the driver swing outside. I know I should start the swing with my lead shoulder but suffer getting a feel for that. Perhaps because I’m not relaxed. Any suggestions on getting the first few feet of the driver swing correct.

I wonder are you dead still when you start your driver back swing, or do you have any body movement before you start the swing? You mention that you may not be relaxed. Some people need to relieve tension and others can simply hit the ball from almost a frozen position.

 

[Desmond]

I think the Dr. Kwon vids can definitely help with starting the swing. I was noticing that the step drills and the centering drills will help on starting the swing. Even though we don't step or swing when we strike the ball, that feeling can be good for initiating a smooth swing. We had snow and cold around here yesterday, but I hope to get back in my shop tomorrow and work on this some more.

I am experimenting with the swing start to get the hips going - right now it's step on front foot, step into ground on trail foot and turn hips

 

[Luchnia]

I am experimenting with the swing start to get the hips going - right now it's step on front foot, step into ground on trail foot and turn hips

Do you think the swing start is critical? I think it is. I know if my start is out of kilter, then chances are my swing won't be very good. The guys I play with know me well. They hear me say almost immediately what the ball will do without even me looking at where it is going because I know my swing start and back swing was wrong which affected everything else.

 

[Lane]

How do you make something so simple- so hard ?

We could all ask you the same question - regardless of the thread, you constantly repeat the same thing over and over without acknowledgment of any other point of view and dismissing anyone who brings up an alternative option

Because I believe the advice I give is actually based on -FACTS!
Why does it bother you so much ? Why do you read my post ? Why not just ignore them ? Either ignore or prove me wrong ? Are you up to the challenge ?