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The 60 and over Thread

General questions about driver shafts. I asked a similar question in another thread and got crickets. Hoping you folks can offer some opinions.

Dislike my current shaft as I'm making contact all over the face. I don't completely understand the torque angle, how it applies to flex or control, but I suspect that might be the culprit. Not sure if this is relevant, but I have a fairly fast transition at the top.

Current shaft I'm having trouble controlling...
TenseiSpecs.png

Shaft I've had success with in the past...
MPFProSeries.png
Disregarding the brand and using the numbers only, I'm trying to figure out which of the bottom 3 options might be the best to experiment with. I'm looking for better control not club head speed and not really considering the 55g option of the bottom group as I feel that would be similar to what I'm currently struggling with.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
 
Tenputt said:
I didn’t feel pressured. They have been really professional at the one I attend. It is not inexpensive. I think that I am paying around $40 per session for the program I am on. I knew it was an investment, but I felt that I really needed a jumpstart because I was feeling so stiff and sore all the time. It has paid dividends in general. I feel so much better when I wake up in the mornings, so the benefit has not been solely golf related, although, admittedly, that was the primary motivation when I signed up.
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That cost is not too bad when you consider the cost for just a basic massage. How many sessions have you had, or how many before you started feeling "much better"?
 
SC Putter said:
In recent months I have started using overlap grip instead of interlock. It actually feel more comfortable and it helps to decrease my grip pressure. After playing interlock all my life it took only a small adjustment. But like at times I catch myself putting interlock on the club then realize it feels different. The overlapping grip is slowly getting ingrained into my routine. Work in progress for sure.
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I went from a standard size grip to a midsize grip to a jumbo grip in 6 or so years. The jumbo really helped me reduce grip pressure, which in turn increased clubhead speed due to a better release. It took a little bit of adjustment because with the faster release came a case of the hooks, but I have my timing down now and am hitting the ball very well with the jumbos. And my hands aren't large, they are thick, but a ML Cadet glove if I wore one.
 
JonMA1 said:
General questions about driver shafts. I asked a similar question in another thread and got crickets. Hoping you folks can offer some opinions.

Dislike my current shaft as I'm making contact all over the face. I don't completely understand the torque angle, how it applies to flex or control, but I suspect that might be the culprit. Not sure if this is relevant, but I have a fairly fast transition at the top.

Current shaft I'm having trouble controlling...
View attachment 9250951

Shaft I've had success with in the past...
View attachment 9250952
Disregarding the brand and using the numbers only, I'm trying to figure out which of the bottom 3 options might be the best to experiment with. I'm looking for better control not club head speed and not really considering the 55g option of the bottom group as I feel that would be similar to what I'm currently struggling with.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
So you like a little kick at the bottom and a little higher launch? Have you tried a HZDRUS smoke red?
 
Phil75070 said:
That cost is not too bad when you consider the cost for just a basic massage. How many sessions have you had, or how many before you started feeling "much better"?
Click to expand...
I have been going three times a week for about a month and a half. I think it was about a month in when I really started noticing a difference. For a little bit, I wondered if it was simply a placebo effect, but now it is clear that my body is different. I can’t remember how long it has been since I could bend down with shoes on and touch the floor easily, without bending my knees. I also noticed how much better my body felt yesterday at the end of the round, after walking 16 holes, I made two extremely good drives on 17 and 18 and felt I was still making good full turns. I am just getting into the golf season and have only walked twice, so I can’t say when this kicked in. I would recommend that somebody give it a month and I think there would be improvement.
 
1860VS said:
So you like a little kick at the bottom and a little higher launch? Have you tried a HZDRUS smoke red?
Click to expand...
I think just the opposite (?) Higher launched drives usually mean I've gotten too much backspin. I have no idea about kick point (?) and don't understand what those factors do. Conventional wisdom says at my swing speed I should be using a lighter, regular flex shaft. But I get decent distance for the tees I play when I make decent contact with a heavier, stiffer shaft. More than anything else, I just need to keep the ball in front of me.
 
I recommend this book. Katherine was a regular on the Hank Haney podcast a few years ago.
 

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JonMA1 said:
I think just the opposite (?) Higher launched drives usually mean I've gotten too much backspin. I have no idea about kick point (?) and don't understand what those factors do. Conventional wisdom says at my swing speed I should be using a lighter, regular flex shaft. But I get decent distance for the tees I play when I make decent contact with a heavier, stiffer shaft. More than anything else, I just need to keep the ball in front of me.
Click to expand...
I have had a couple of driver fittings and numerous lessons. A frequent comment in those was that many seniors are not launching the ball high enough with their drivers.

From what I have seen an optimal flight for maximum carry is often significantly higher than many seniors are hitting.

For example, with 80 mph swing speed and 120 mph ball speed, 14-17 deg launch angle and 2500-2900 rpm backspin are optimal. Apex height of 25 yds or more is great.

Now if you are getting a "ballooning" ball flight that's different from a good high launch. As you mention that could be a shaft or ball issue causing excessive spin.
 
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JonMA1 said:
I think just the opposite (?) Higher launched drives usually mean I've gotten too much backspin. I have no idea about kick point (?) and don't understand what those factors do. Conventional wisdom says at my swing speed I should be using a lighter, regular flex shaft. But I get decent distance for the tees I play when I make decent contact with a heavier, stiffer shaft. More than anything else, I just need to keep the ball in front of me.
Click to expand...
The kickpoint is where shafts alter launch and spin. Lower kick points mean higher launch and more spin. The shaft you said you like is a " high" launch, which means that it would have a lower kick point and more spin. More backspin creates a higher, straighter flight.
The problem is, there is no industry standard to denote what is a high, midhigh, or whatever launch. HZDRUS says the smoke red is a mid/high. But for me it launches higher than what ping says is it's stock high launching shaft. I am not one to hit a driver with a ascending blow unless it's in a scramble and we have a good one in play so it's KILL time. I need some kick and spin.
HZDRUS Red is a fantastic shaft for a number of guys I know, despite it not being one you see a lot of in the wild. I can get my G430 to go either way with it, while still maintaining the height I need.
 
JonMA1 said:
General questions about driver shafts. I asked a similar question in another thread and got crickets. Hoping you folks can offer some opinions.

Dislike my current shaft as I'm making contact all over the face. I don't completely understand the torque angle, how it applies to flex or control, but I suspect that might be the culprit. Not sure if this is relevant, but I have a fairly fast transition at the top.

Current shaft I'm having trouble controlling...
View attachment 9250951

Shaft I've had success with in the past...
View attachment 9250952
Disregarding the brand and using the numbers only, I'm trying to figure out which of the bottom 3 options might be the best to experiment with. I'm looking for better control not club head speed and not really considering the 55g option of the bottom group as I feel that would be similar to what I'm currently struggling with.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Many golfers including pros use shortened driver shafts to make more center contact. Average for the PGA tour is 44.75" according to Golf.com.
 
Birdman03 said:
Many golfers including pros use shortened driver shafts to make more center contact. Average for the PGA tour is 44.75" according to Golf.com.
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A bit of a segue. When I was fitted for my last driver, I asked about a shorter shaft. The fitter said a 45.5 inch shaft for me was like a 43.5 inch shaft for most people, so he kept me in the longer shaft.
 
skigolfmike said:
Played 18 with the wife today at Lake Tansi GC. $76 with carts for 2 was a pretty good deal.
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You should try The Bear Trace at Cumberland Mountain State Park. I have never played there, but it’s a Nicklaus course. The Crossville area has lots of courses for the retirees in the area. I live in Nashville and have never played there.
 
JPR1959 said:
You should try The Bear Trace at Cumberland Mountain State Park. I have never played there, but it’s a Nicklaus course. The Crossville area has lots of courses for the retirees in the area. I live in Nashville and have never played there.
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I've played "The Bear Trace" at Cumberland twice. once 25 years ago when it was fairly new and just this last January. It was a mess. It's so bad they are resodding one of the 9s this year and they other next year. It's a good tract, but it's Nicklaus, so lots of forced carries and target golf. Lake Tansi is going to aerate soon, go the greens should be more receptive about 3 weeks after that. I did have to reclub at Lake Tansi since it's 2000' above sea level, so it played about a 1/2 club shorter.
 
Here is a little tidbit from AI:

At higher altitudes, such as 2,000 feet above sea level, golf balls indeed travel farther due to changes in air density. Let’s explore the reasons behind this phenomenon:
  1. Air Density: As elevation increases, the air density decreases. Thinner air exerts less drag force on the golf ball. Consequently, the ball moves more easily through the air and doesn’t slow down as quickly, resulting in greater distance.
  2. Gravity: The force of gravity also decreases as we move away from the Earth’s center. However, this change is too small to significantly affect the ball’s flight.
  3. Distance Calculation: You can estimate the distance gain compared to sea level by multiplying the elevation (in feet) by 0.00116. For instance, if you’re playing at 1 mile elevation (5,280 ft.) like in Reno, the increase is approximately 6%. So, if you normally drive the ball 250 yards at sea level, you’ll likely drive it around 265 yards in Reno1.
  4. Spin and Trajectory: Interestingly, the golf ball does not spin any less at high elevation. However, due to the lower air density, the lift force is also reduced. As a result:
    • You’ll observe a flatter trajectory on longer shots.
    • The angle of descent becomes more shallow.
    • The ball experiences greater roll.
  5. Shot Shaping: Because the air is less dense at higher altitudes, the ball won’t slice or hook as much. Shaping shots becomes harder.
  6. Short Shots: On short approaches and greenside shots, the altitude has a lesser effect on golf ball aerodynamics.
I was initially fooled by the calculation .00116 x 2,000 (# of feet above sea level). One gets the number 2.32. Wait ... 2.32 feet??? No, 2.32% The answer is a percentage, not the number of feet. Duh!

I can't vouch for the accuracy of these numbers. I have rarely played at significant elevations but I seem to recall the pros talking about 5-10% when playing in the mountains of Colorado. I have noted decreased distance in cold air, again as a result of air density. When I am playing in 40 degree weather I typically assume I need at least 1 more club.
 
I posted in the "What did you buy today" thread, but FYI... New G425 hybrids and woods are on a pretty good sale since they are a generation old. Today I went hybrid shopping for a lower flying hybrid to replace my beloved suborbital 9 wood in the spring winds. Looking for specific numbers (100' high, 200- 208 carry, hopefully in that 200 rpm per degree of loft area I like to play in. Hits lots of clubs, good clubs all, but none fitting all the numbers I wanted. Then I hit the "4" 22* G425, and it was the club. With no adjustment at all, and the stock Alta CB shaft. And at $217.00 I didn't even think twice.
Seems odd. So much change lately. First ever Ping clubs less than 5 years ago. Now Ping dominates the top of the bag. And I buy by numbers, not brand.
First ever Callaways went in the bag the last 2 years too. But I am liking my bag, all the way around.
 
Sean said:
The elevation of my home course is 95 feet above sea level, lol.
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Yes, coastal MA is going to match the sim/trackman when it is set at sea level. Wiki says Ann Arbor is around 800 feet so my 182 yard drive is comparable to your 180 yard effort.
 
Tenputt said:
I don’t know how many of you have this business in your area, but I signed up for a three month program at my local Stretch Zone. I am about a month and a half into it and it is making a world of difference. I can bend over from my waist and put most of my hand on the floor, without bending my knees. I am seeing some increased club speed. I have to figure out a way to maintain this after my program ends.
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I have a stretching routine I do every morning for 5 minutes. It’s a YouTube video from Bowflex. That and core and dumbbell work in the gym twice a week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
DGA3 said:
A golfing friend of mine goes to SZ, and has had the same experience as you: it is painful, but it helps his golf game.

He gave them my name and number for the free session, but I haven't done it yet, mainly because I have to watch my budget. However, they call about once a week to see if I am ready to come in for my "freebie!" :ROFLMAO:
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It is real in terms of benefit. Nobody wants to be hounded, though. I would shut that down fast.
 
JonMA1 said:
General questions about driver shafts. I asked a similar question in another thread and got crickets. Hoping you folks can offer some opinions.

Dislike my current shaft as I'm making contact all over the face. I don't completely understand the torque angle, how it applies to flex or control, but I suspect that might be the culprit. Not sure if this is relevant, but I have a fairly fast transition at the top.

Current shaft I'm having trouble controlling...
View attachment 9250951

Shaft I've had success with in the past...
View attachment 9250952
Disregarding the brand and using the numbers only, I'm trying to figure out which of the bottom 3 options might be the best to experiment with. I'm looking for better control not club head speed and not really considering the 55g option of the bottom group as I feel that would be similar to what I'm currently struggling with.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
When I had a faster swing, I liked the 3.5 torque regular flex and mid/high flight.
 
JonMA1 said:
General questions about driver shafts. I asked a similar question in another thread and got crickets. Hoping you folks can offer some opinions.

Dislike my current shaft as I'm making contact all over the face. I don't completely understand the torque angle, how it applies to flex or control, but I suspect that might be the culprit. Not sure if this is relevant, but I have a fairly fast transition at the top.

Current shaft I'm having trouble controlling...
View attachment 9250951

Shaft I've had success with in the past...
View attachment 9250952
Disregarding the brand and using the numbers only, I'm trying to figure out which of the bottom 3 options might be the best to experiment with. I'm looking for better control not club head speed and not really considering the 55g option of the bottom group as I feel that would be similar to what I'm currently struggling with.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Was your other thread about shafts? I didn’t see it and staff didn’t either. Maybe buried in a different topic thread?

Torque has virtually nothing to do with control for many and is almost completely about feel.
 
Played 18 on the simulator today and felt like I was firing on all cylinders.

Snow has melted for the most part and finally had a chance to work on the game outside. Short game is coming around. Contact, club face control, and feel for distances are coming back. Also took some mid-iron swings. Starting to find the groove but am far from where I want to be. Also, took both drivers out for the first time in a couple weeks. Feels like I'm getting my strength back from being down in late December and January. Felt like I was swinging driver at nearly 100% today.


BH 43 said:
When I had a faster swing, I liked the 3.5 torque regular flex and mid/high flight.
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JB said:
Torque has virtually nothing to do with control and is almost completely about feel.
Click to expand...

Ordered a new heavier, stiffer shaft and adaptor for the AI Smoke driver today. I have experienced the potential of that club head while practicing, but it's just so wild. Maybe it's the Tensei shaft, maybe it isn't... guess I'll find out. Didn't really want to put any more money towards it, but there has already been so much invested and I want to give it a fair shot. Figure I'll keep the lighter shaft as a backup and for when my swing speed starts to really diminish.
 
Sean said:
A bit of a segue. When I was fitted for my last driver, I asked about a shorter shaft. The fitter said a 45.5 inch shaft for me was like a 43.5 inch shaft for most people, so he kept me in the longer shaft.
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i was refitted for my ai smoke max d driver and woods. i changed from the cypher II 40 gram at standard length to the tensei blue 55 at 46 ... and my woods were 1/2 inch over standard with tensei blue 65 vs the cypher 50 ngram. i picked up more clubhead speeds, my issue was lack of distance with high ballooning ball flight . t i use golf pride CP2 Jumbos which are like 30 grams heavier than standard , the heavier shaft and extra length helped me get swingweights in the d's from c3 to c5 . wil get some range time and 18 tomorrow .
 
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