The 60 and over Thread

[Birdman03]

@SC LEFTY your discussion about changes you are making to your bag and why, resonates with me as I have spent the last few weeks going through a similar exercise.

During 2023, chasing distance (I did Super Speed training) ultimately did more harm to my game than good. Furthermore, analyzing my bag using Shot Scope data, I learned that the gapping between my 7W, 9W, 11W and 27H was not significant enough to make it worthwhile playing all of them. Finally, while I hit my 3HL well off the tee (although with a right-side bias), I did not hit it very consistently from the fairway so distance-wise, it ended up being in the same area as those noted above.

So, for 2024 I am doing the following:

1. Cutting back to 11 clubs. I don't need any more than that and they'll be lighter to push or carry.
2. Driver - At the end of 2023 I played my G400 Max at 44.5" (using a Kuro Kage HBP shaft which I had made for the purpose) and my accuracy improved (dispersion went from around 68-yards to around 54 yards and I hit more fairways), while distance did not suffer by more than a couple of yards.
3. Fairway wood - Going to one FW, a Ping G425 SFT 5W. This club is on order, so I haven't hit it yet, but I'm hoping that it is a 160–170-yard club both off the tee and fairway. I plan to use it for some short par-4s or really tight driving holes.
4. Hybrids - Two of these. Towards the end of the season, I picked up a G430 6H which worked really well for me on three of our five par-3s (I parred all three in my last two rounds) and off the fairway. For my other hybrid, I'm putting a Ping Anser 27* which I've owned for years, and have a lot of confidence in, back in the bag.
5. Irons - Ping G710 7-W. I've played these for 3-seasons and don't plan to change for 2024 unless the G730s really knock my socks off.
6. Wedges - An Edison 54* and a Ping ChipR
7. Putter - either a SeeMore FGP or the Ping 2023 Anser which I played for most of 2023

That's 11 clubs, which should be plenty. I finished the season with a 20.8 index and am hoping to get that down to 16-18 in 2024.

I've noted this same problem, with higher lofted FW clubs and similar lofted hybrids all going the same distance. I'm all in favor of only carrying clubs with reliable distance gaps that are easy to hit properly.

What is the loft gap between your W and your 54 deg SW? If it's too much you could add a 49 or 50 deg GW.

 

[Grand Stranded]

@SC LEFTY your discussion about changes you are making to your bag and why, resonates with me as I have spent the last few weeks going through a similar exercise.

During 2023, chasing distance (I did Super Speed training) ultimately did more harm to my game than good. Furthermore, analyzing my bag using Shot Scope data, I learned that the gapping between my 7W, 9W, 11W and 27H was not significant enough to make it worthwhile playing all of them. Finally, while I hit my 3HL well off the tee (although with a right-side bias), I did not hit it very consistently from the fairway so distance-wise, it ended up being in the same area as those noted above.

So, for 2024 I am doing the following:

1. Cutting back to 11 clubs. I don't need any more than that and they'll be lighter to push or carry.
2. Driver - At the end of 2023 I played my G400 Max at 44.5" (using a Kuro Kage HBP shaft which I had made for the purpose) and my accuracy improved (dispersion went from around 68-yards to around 54 yards and I hit more fairways), while distance did not suffer by more than a couple of yards.
3. Fairway wood - Going to one FW, a Ping G425 SFT 5W. This club is on order, so I haven't hit it yet, but I'm hoping that it is a 160–170-yard club both off the tee and fairway. I plan to use it for some short par-4s or really tight driving holes.
4. Hybrids - Two of these. Towards the end of the season, I picked up a G430 6H which worked really well for me on three of our five par-3s (I parred all three in my last two rounds) and off the fairway. For my other hybrid, I'm putting a Ping Anser 27* which I've owned for years, and have a lot of confidence in, back in the bag.
5. Irons - Ping G710 7-W. I've played these for 3-seasons and don't plan to change for 2024 unless the G730s really knock my socks off.
6. Wedges - An Edison 54* and a Ping ChipR
7. Putter - either a SeeMore FGP or the Ping 2023 Anser which I played for most of 2023

That's 11 clubs, which should be plenty. I finished the season with a 20.8 index and am hoping to get that down to 16-18 in 2024.

A year ago I might have thought differently, but now I’m tending to agree with your point about not needing 14 clubs.
I could very easily drop the 3W from my bag. In fact if I were RH I’d go 4W and either 7W or HW, but I’m not spending over $300 for a TS2 16.5*.
I think most men with 85mph or less SS would be wise to get a total bag fitting that would address their gapping. If we did I’d be willing to bet very few of us would need 14 clubs.
One of the biggest gripes I have with iron fitting is that they only have you hit a 7i and then you’re left to guess which other ones you need. For the money these OEMs are getting for clubs they should do a much better job allowing brick and mortar stores to fit through the bag. You shouldn’t have to pay a Club Champion like premium to get fit for a $1200 iron set.

 

[mav52]

, ball has a mark it's in the shag bag.

Well since I don't have a shag bag, the ball usually goes in a donate pile to my neighbor who has this field at his farm where he slams balls.

 

[Bob M]

I've noted this same problem, with higher lofted FW clubs and similar lofted hybrids all going the same distance. I'm all in favor of only carrying clubs with reliable distance gaps that are easy to hit properly.

What is the loft gap between your W and your 54 deg SW? If it's too much you could add a 49 or 50 deg GW.

The G710 W is 44* so 10*. I have the 49*, which could end up in the bag if needed, but since I can hit the W anywhere from 40 to 90-yards and the 54* up to 50-yards (with a partial swing) I think it will be OK.

 

[Bob M]

The G710 W is 44* so 10*. I have the 49*, which could end up in the bag if needed, but since I can hit the W anywhere from 40 to 90-yards and the 54* up to 50-yards (with a partial swing) I think it will be OK.

And I forgot to mention that, in addition to being really good for short chip and run shots, the ChipR works well on 25–50-yard pitch shot in situations like a back pin location. The club is 9-iron-ish loft, but being as upright as my putter, it is really accurate.

 

[BH 43]

I'm down to 12 clubs, driver, 3 hyb, 7 wood, 9 wood, 7 and 8 hyb and 9,pw,gw. Then 52 and 54* wedges. I'm hoping gapping between clubs stays the same. I'm also going to try the swing with right foot open, for 2024.

 

[Birdman03]

I'm down to 12 clubs, driver, 3 hyb, 7 wood, 9 wood, 7 and 8 hyb and 9,pw,gw. Then 52 and 54* wedges. I'm hoping gapping between clubs stays the same. I'm also going to try the swing with right foot open, for 2024.

I've seen a lot of recommendations for seniors in particular to turn the trail foot open to assist the hip turn in the backswing. I'm wondering however if that promotes "throwing out" the trail shoulder and hip in the downswing.

I was doing that, but in a recent lesson I was strongly advised to keep that foot pointed forward and planted with weight on the insole. Knee and hip need to go toward target not ball in downswing.

 

[Grand Stranded]

I'm down to 12 clubs, driver, 3 hyb, 7 wood, 9 wood, 7 and 8 hyb and 9,pw,gw. Then 52 and 54* wedges. I'm hoping gapping between clubs stays the same. I'm also going to try the swing with right foot open, for 2024.

I‘m intrigued by your setup, It’s really cool.
i have to ask though… I totally get your 7h- GW setup, but the 52&54* wedges seems weird ( for lack of a better word) why not a 56 or 58 instead of those, or at least instead of the 54?
At the top I’m also curious how much separation you have between the 3h and 7w? A 9w sounds like a fun club to hit… I’d imagine it gaps very well in between your 7w and 7h.

 

[skigolfmike]

I’m still playing 14 clubs with my puny 85 mph swing speed. You can see the clubs below. Here’s my average distances.

Driver - 215
FW - 190
21* HyWay - 175
4H - 165
5H - 155
6I - 145
7I - 135
8I - 125
9I - 115
PW - 105
GW - 95
53* Edison 2.0 - 80
58* Vokey 65

Played today with temp tees and greens. Course play really short, shot 66. LOL

At GolfTec today, after the lesson, we did a couple skills assessments. First with the driver and the score sucked; however, the left/right of center average was 12 yards. Then we did a short game assessment from 10- 100 yards. Max score was a 35, I got a 29 on the first try. Good to know I’m pretty good from 100 yards in.

 

[1860VS]

I’m still playing 14 clubs with my puny 85 mph swing speed. You can see the clubs below. Here’s my average distances.

Driver - 215
FW - 190
21* HyWay - 175
4H - 165
5H - 155
6I - 145
7I - 135
8I - 125
9I - 115
PW - 105
GW - 95
53* Edison 2.0 - 80
58* Vokey 65

Played today with temp tees and greens. Course play really short, shot 66. LOL

At GolfTec today, after the lesson, we did a couple skills assessments. First with the driver and the score sucked; however, the left/right of center average was 12 yards. Then we did a short game assessment from 10- 100 yards. Max score was a 35, I got a 29 on the first try. Good to know I’m pretty good from 100 yards in.

I'm so all over the place with distance any more I have to club myself according to the back.

 

[Grand Stranded]

I've seen a lot of recommendations for seniors in particular to turn the trail foot open to assist the hip turn in the backswing. I'm wondering however if that promotes "throwing out" the trail shoulder and hip in the downswing.

I was doing that, but in a recent lesson I was strongly advised to keep that foot pointed forward and planted with weight on the insole. Knee and hip need to go toward target not ball in downswing.

Such a good post. Your last sentence is spot on.

 

[skigolfmike]

I've seen a lot of recommendations for seniors in particular to turn the trail foot open to assist the hip turn in the backswing. I'm wondering however if that promotes "throwing out" the trail shoulder and hip in the downswing.

I was doing that, but in a recent lesson I was strongly advised to keep that foot pointed forward and planted with weight on the insole. Knee and hip need to go toward target not ball in downswing.

Yeah, I think the Danny Maude videos talk about that. Initially, with my GolfTec lessons, we went down that path, opening the right foot up and moving it back. It does help with the backswing in getting more turn. However, we got more when I opened up the left foot and worked on width in the follow through. I lost shoulder turn, but I gained a bit of club head speed. Skills wise, I hit it pretty straight. Working on hitting it more consistently.

 

[BH 43]

I‘m intrigued by your setup, It’s really cool.
i have to ask though… I totally get your 7h- GW setup, but the 52&54* wedges seems weird ( for lack of a better word) why not a 56 or 58 instead of those, or at least instead of the 54?
At the top I’m also curious how much separation you have between the 3h and 7w? A 9w sounds like a fun club to hit… I’d imagine it gaps very well in between your 7w and 7h.

The 52 is usually a full swing, 54 partial swing and out of sand. 3 h is 1 inch over standard.

 

[Parrot]

I've seen a lot of recommendations for seniors in particular to turn the trail foot open to assist the hip turn in the backswing. I'm wondering however if that promotes "throwing out" the trail shoulder and hip in the downswing.

I was doing that, but in a recent lesson I was strongly advised to keep that foot pointed forward and planted with weight on the insole. Knee and hip need to go toward target not ball in downswing.

How far were you turning out your trail foot? I do that but but never get it past 1 o’clock if 12 is square to the line. I drop my trail foot back an inch or two. I focus on turning into the inside of my right foot and knee.

 

[Ooo]

Going to put this here because I don’t want to start a new thread and 75% of the people I play with qualify for 60+. I am amazed at the number of players that don’t understand the difference in golf balls. Many think all Titleist 1 or whatever number is the same. Same for all brands. They don’t know that a ProV1 and a Velocity are different or a Soft Feel and a Q-star. This is players that have played for years and I would guess that most of those players are probably playing a ball not suited for their game. Just a random thought from someone that gets up way too early.

 

[1860VS]

Going to put this here because I don’t want to start a new thread and 75% of the people I play with qualify for 60+. I am amazed at the number of players that don’t understand the difference in golf balls. Many think all Titleist 1 or whatever number is the same. Same for all brands. They don’t know that a ProV1 and a Velocity are different or a Soft Feel and a Q-star. This is players that have played for years and I would guess that most of those players are probably playing a ball not suited for their game. Just a random thought from someone that gets up way too early.

You are absolutely correct. I hear some weird things from guys on my leagues, a guy who laments he can never make his iron shots stop the way he sees other people's stop. And he is playing a Warbird,
Or the guy who complains his drives are all crooked, yet he is playing a chrome soft X.
Casual golfers simply aren't students of the game to the extent your typical THPer is.

 

[JonMA1]

I've always been one to question the importance of using the right ball. But then, I've always sucked at golf, so...

Last year I bought a large box of Vice Pro balls from Sam's Club and used them exclusively the first couple months of the 2023 season. Played my best golf ever. When I ran out and returned to using either used balls or whatever was on sale (not Vice, not urethane), I started struggling a bit. I finished the season how I started it and even though I wasn't playing the vice balls, I would often use the premium urethane balls I found in the woods.

I can't ignore what happened and now believe there is something to using the right ball - even though I think swing mechanics and ability play a much bigger part.

 

[Phil75070]

Yeah, I think the Danny Maude videos talk about that. Initially, with my GolfTec lessons, we went down that path, opening the right foot up and moving it back. It does help with the backswing in getting more turn. However, we got more when I opened up the left foot and worked on width in the follow through. I lost shoulder turn, but I gained a bit of club head speed. Skills wise, I hit it pretty straight. Working on hitting it more consistently.

I've had equal success at times, closing the stance or playing with an open stance. It seems to vary day-to-day which is more effective.

 

[Sean]

Do you

I've seen a lot of recommendations for seniors in particular to turn the trail foot open to assist the hip turn in the backswing. I'm wondering however if that promotes "throwing out" the trail shoulder and hip in the downswing.

I was doing that, but in a recent lesson I was strongly advised to keep that foot pointed forward and planted with weight on the insole. Knee and hip need to go toward target not ball in downswing.

I keep the right foot flared. I'm not as flexible as I once was (who among is?), and it allows for a deeper hip turn. In addition, when I used to swing with my lower body, i.e., conventional swing methodology, that kind of restriction put a lot of pressure on my lower back, which is why I now have an upper body golf swing.

Something I read:

Today’s version of the golf swing has become a “very spine-intense activity because of all the twisting that you’re doing,” said Andrew Hecht, the chief of spine surgery at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City.

In biomechanics studies, male golfers who whipped through a modern-style golf swing generated forces equal to at least six times their body weight. These forces, especially during the downswing, converge the on vertebrae in the golfers’ lower backs, most notably on the right side of the spine for right-handed players, compressing the vertebrae to such an extent that orthopedists call the effect the “crunch factor."

 

[1860VS]

I've always been one to question the importance of using the right ball. But then, I've always sucked at golf, so...

Last year I bought a large box of Vice Pro balls from Sam's Club and used them exclusively the first couple months of the 2023 season. Played my best golf ever. When I ran out and returned to using either used balls or whatever was on sale (not Vice, not urethane), I started struggling a bit. I finished the season how I started it and even though I wasn't playing the vice balls, I would often use the premium urethane balls I found in the woods.

I can't ignore what happened and now believe there is something to using the right ball - even though I think swing mechanics and ability play a much bigger part.

Vice Pro is a great value. I would compare it ti something between a TM Tour Response and a TP5X. My kid got me some for Christmas one year and they were great till the greens got real firm late summer.

 

[jhtr20]

I've seen a lot of recommendations for seniors in particular to turn the trail foot open to assist the hip turn in the backswing. I'm wondering however if that promotes "throwing out" the trail shoulder and hip in the downswing.

I was doing that, but in a recent lesson I was strongly advised to keep that foot pointed forward and planted with weight on the insole. Knee and hip need to go toward target not ball in downswing.

With some arthritis in my right hip I do everything I can to minimize pain during the round. I've found turning out might right foot a bit helps protect, I guess is the right word, the hip a bit. I have not noticed any difference with the trail shoulder.

 

[JonMA1]

Vice Pro is a great value. I would compare it ti something between a TM Tour Response and a TP5X. My kid got me some for Christmas one year and they were great till the greens got real firm late summer.

This is kind of my uneducated take... We can't buy a certain golf ball and expect a drastic change. We can't just practice irons and expect an instant and dramatic increase in GIRs. We can't get fitted for a new driver and expect that to be the end-all, cure-all.

But if we do more of those things, the incremental improvements might add up. At almost 63, I still believe my best days are ahead of me if only for the next couple of years.

Everyone in this thread is looking to improve where we can and try to hold off the effects aging has on our scores and handicaps. The difference is that unlike a lot of you, I was never any good and didn't take up the game until late in life. The inevitable loss of distance is only beginning in my game. But the plan is to increase accuracy to offset the effects. That might mean smarter practice and new equipment - including a better ball than I'm used to playing even if it offers only slight improvement. I'll take whatever help I can get.

If this is as good as it gets, I'm ok with that. I'm not crazy about bad golf but it still brings about a lot of enjoyment and is physically beneficial.

 

[Birdman03]

How far were you turning out your trail foot? I do that but but never get it past 1 o’clock if 12 is square to the line. I drop my trail foot back an inch or two. I focus on turning into the inside of my right foot and knee.

I did just a bit more than that. Closing the stance like that definitely helps change the swing path to more in to out. I've seen some good results with that for guys who slice their drivers.

 

[skigolfmike]

Going to put this here because I don’t want to start a new thread and 75% of the people I play with qualify for 60+. I am amazed at the number of players that don’t understand the difference in golf balls. Many think all Titleist 1 or whatever number is the same. Same for all brands. They don’t know that a ProV1 and a Velocity are different or a Soft Feel and a Q-star. This is players that have played for years and I would guess that most of those players are probably playing a ball not suited for their game. Just a random thought from someone that gets up way too early.

I have a unique perspective on this since I play at a muni and a private club, so I have seen both sides of the coin. The group at he muni probably averages between 65 and 75. Most of these guys don’t have a lot of disposable income, so I see a lot of them playing cheap or found balls. There are some of them playing more premium balls and clubs, it they are a minority. OTOH, at the private club, money is generally not an object. That said, I think only a few of these guys actually do any equipment tuning. I do see a lot more up to date equipment and premium balls in play. I’ve seen a lot of Chrome Softs, Titlest, Taylormade, Brigstone with a Vice sprinkled in now and then. The country club set covers about the same age range BTW.

Me, I AM an equipment nerd. I am always tuning. Not just the clubs and ball, I’m going to keep tuning the old bod too while I can.

 

[Birdman03]

I have a unique perspective on this since I play at a muni and a private club, so I have seen both sides of the coin. The group at he muni probably averages between 65 and 75. Most of these guys don’t have a lot of disposable income, so I see a lot of them playing cheap or found balls. There are some of them playing more premium balls and clubs, it they are a minority. OTOH, at the private club, money is generally not an object. That said, I think only a few of these guys actually do any equipment tuning. I do see a lot more up to date equipment and premium balls in play. I’ve seen a lot of Chrome Softs, Titlest, Taylormade, Brigstone with a Vice sprinkled in now and then. The country club set covers about the same age range BTW.

Me, I AM an equipment nerd. I am always tuning. Not just the clubs and ball, I’m going to keep tuning the old bod too while I can.

To me the "feel" of the ball coming off wedges and the putter is important and can be noticeably different between ball types.

That's why I advocate using the same type of ball all of the time, and I've seen good results when the muni type guys you are talking about start doing it. I have a frequent scramble partner who always used found balls and we often saw some weird ball flights off the driver in particular.

I gave him a dozen SuperSofts (only $24) and told him no more "junk" balls, use these from now on. Needless to say the results were noticeable and he was quite happy.