The Choke Label?

[Tadashi70]

I guess the first question is do you believe there is actually anyone on tour that can be labeled a "choker"? If so, then I don't see how anyone can't put Furyk in that category. Choking, in my opinion, if when you're expected to do something and then fail to do it. Going into Sunday with a lead ten times and then lose every one of those, with I believe an average score 3 or 4 strokes higher than the previous 3 rounds, is about as textbook as it gets. Doesn't mean that Furyk isn't one of the top tour professionals of my lifetime or take away from his overall career. I mean, to be a choker you have to be somewhat accomplished to begin with to gain that notoriety. Some people just fold under certain types of pressure. I do think Johnson is on his way to getting that stigma, and in another 14 years, if he continues the trend he's on and is the same age as Furyk, then I'd probably label him as strongly if not more so. I'd also put Sergio in that tier too. Day...a little young and frankly not distinguished enough to even be in the discussion.

So in this game of golf, if you have the lead you are expected to keep it, make every putt and flush every shot. I don't buy it or agree. The fact that someone puts themselves in a postion to win is an achievement in itself.

By this logic, Jack was the biggest choker of anyone since he has more 2nd than anyone on tour.

 

[mikeg_74]

By this logic, Jack was the biggest choker of anyone since he has more 2nd than anyone on tour.

I'm of the same mindset. On one hand I agree that a player being in position to capture a major and failing to do so is something, I'm just not sure it's choking. Freddie said it best that by this logic Jack is the biggest "choker" and I don't buy that.

I think it's just golf and how pressure packed the back nine of major can be. Some channel that energy better than others, but if they don't I have a hard time saying they choked.

With that said I think blowing big leads in a major is a huge failure and could be persuaded to consider that choking, but what we saw at the U.S. Open by DJ wasn't a choke IMO.

 

[Bucketsofjoy]

I think a choker is someone who /loses/ a tournament. What I mean by that is that they are in control but make late costly errors that give the tournament to someone else. Sometimes you get beat by better golfers, even if you have the 36 or 54 hole lead, and I don't think those situations label someone a choker, but if you have it in your hands and fail to bring it in, you've choked. Do this a few times and you're a choker I guess

 

[KeyserSoze]

Nervously missing a 1 footer by 4 feet is a gag/choke, missing a tee shot or approach is just a bad shot which sometimes happens ('sup Johnny Miller)

 

[Badger_Golfer]

If youre close over and over and over and just cant seem to close the deal, youre a choker. DJ, for example. Hes totally a choker.

 

[Evok]

So in this game of golf, if you have the lead you are expected to keep it, make every putt and flush every shot. I don't buy it or agree. The fact that someone puts themselves in a postion to win is an achievement in itself.

By this logic, Jack was the biggest choker of anyone since he has more 2nd than anyone on tour.

Gotta agree, I just don't think Jack "choked" 19 times in majors lol

 

[Martsy]

So in this game of golf, if you have the lead you are expected to keep it, make every putt and flush every shot. I don't buy it or agree. The fact that someone puts themselves in a postion to win is an achievement in itself.

By this logic, Jack was the biggest choker of anyone since he has more 2nd than anyone on tour.

I'm sorry I'm just responding to this, somehow I missed your reply. But it's not the same logic. Firstly, I'm not sure Furyk has even finished 2nd in his last 10 PGA events where he lead going into Sunday. His average score on those days I think is 3 or 4 higher than his average in the previous 3 rounds. And I'm also not saying he isn't a great golfer. I mean, he's currently #6 in the world I believe, and has 17 career wins on tour. Not a lot of golfers can say that...so not saying he isn't great and certainly one of the best in my lifetime. However, not sealing the deal after the last 10 times he's gone into Sunday with the lead is pretty spectacular stat and can't be overlooked or poo-poo'd as just random in my opinion.

To draw a parallel, in baseball you see it all the time where players but up amazing stats in Kansas City or Milwaukee...and then get signed in NY or Boston, or LA, and completely flounder. No one seems to deny that phenomenon. Some people just wilt under a certain microscope for whatever reason, and others thrive. I personally feel that's what's happening here.

 

[Tadashi70]

I'm sorry I'm just responding to this, somehow I missed your reply. But it's not the same logic. Firstly, I'm not sure Furyk has even finished 2nd in his last 10 PGA events where he lead going into Sunday. His average score on those days I think is 3 or 4 higher than his average in the previous 3 rounds. And I'm also not saying he isn't a great golfer. I mean, he's currently #6 in the world I believe, and has 17 career wins on tour. Not a lot of golfers can say that...so not saying he isn't great and certainly one of the best in my lifetime. However, not sealing the deal after the last 10 times he's gone into Sunday with the lead is pretty spectacular stat and can't be overlooked or poo-poo'd as just random in my opinion.

To draw a parallel, in baseball you see it all the time where players but up amazing stats in Kansas City or Milwaukee...and then get signed in NY or Boston, or LA, and completely flounder. No one seems to deny that phenomenon. Some people just wilt under a certain microscope for whatever reason, and others thrive. I personally feel that's what's happening here.

Not sure people realize how tough it is to win on tour. 17 tour wins with a US Open is a sought career. Not closing in 10 events doesn't make him a choker, imo. It goes back to what one feels about a particular golfer.

 

[UglySwing]

'Choker' is an easy term to throw around sometimes...

In golf, I'd say it's fair to call a guy a choker if, under pressure, he clearly starts to miss shots he otherwise makes (not simply shots he 'needs' to make).

But, if I make 50% of my putts from 8 feet, if I miss an 8 footer on 18, playing for the win, that's not a choke. I only had a 50/50 shot of making it.

I'm not pointing my comments at anyone; I just think sometimes there's no common sense applied when using a lot of terminology in sports, simply bc that's the way we've always been taught to think.

If I'm only making 50% of my 8 footers, just because I need it on 18 and miss doesn't make me a choker anymore than it would make me clutch if I hit it. I had a 50/50 shot.

Now, if I'm normally 50/50 from 8 feet, but down the homestretch in an important tournament, with all of the pressure on, I only hit 30% of those, that's a legit 'choke'.

 

[Canadan]

I don't really subscribe to the idea that golfers should change their strategy, especially with what works. For DJ, his play on Thursday and Friday at the Open got him into an incredible position, only to fail miserably for the 3rd and 4th rounds. To me that's not a style of play issue, that's just failing to play four rounds at the level he's capable of.

If you want to talk about choking the final day, we need not look further than Jason Day at the Open (and I'm definitely a Day fan). He played guarded, nervous golf and it cost him a genuine shot at the victory. Hitting to opposing fairways which created awful lines into the green, rather than using his distance as an advantage.

It was very disappointing to watch.

I'm glad this thread was bumped so I could quote myself and give Day some SERIOUS credit for lighting it up and commanding the PGA Championship. Welcome to non-Chokerville Jason Day!