The Liv Golf Rumor and News Thread

[macolyte]

So because DPWT rejected LIV they get no OWGR. Think about what you're saying. Is this about ranking players or being part of an existing tour?

DPWT and PGAT rejected LIV for monetary and competitive reasons hence the Anti-Trust Violation investigation which is still active.

Setting up qualification criteria for majors (and therefore ranking the players) WITHIN an ecosystem is literally what the OWGR is for. Its main purpose is not ranking all the professional golf players in the world.

The majors could’ve created special exemptions for LIV all this time if they wanted to.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

I now wonder if the PIF will go after the DP World Tour for world rankings options. DPWT has been left out with this whole PGAT thing and need a partner to dance with

Perhaps it means either they have a good chance to merge with the PGA tour now or they are going to go on their own and try to acquire more top players? But who knows at this point. The saga continues. I'm already out of popcorn and I bought the Costco-sized popcorn.

 

[Louis_Posture]

So there is no reason to try to keep the best golfers in the world? Tradition and legacy only take you so far. These are professional golfers, they play to make money. Your solutions are to take money out of the professionals pockets.

Managing a pro golf Tour by pandering to a player who thinks he should be paid more money is absurd; a nonsense unsustainable business strategy.
The solution is to manage the PGA Tour with the same good sense business model from which it was established 60 years ago. That is solicit corporations to sponsor tournaments and from those incoming revenues will be the prize purse for each tournament. For example, collect $5 million from the tournament's corporate sponsors, $3 million of that is paid out in the form of player prize money, $1 million is used for the Tour and tournament's administrative expenses, and $1 million is donated to local charitable cause.

 

[echico]

Managing a pro golf Tour by pandering to a player who thinks he should be paid more money is absurd; a nonsense unsustainable business strategy.
The solution is to manage the PGA Tour with the same good sense business model from which it was established 60 years ago. That is solicit corporations to sponsor tournaments and from those incoming revenues will be the prize purse for each tournament. For example, collect $5 million from the tournament's corporate sponsors, $3 million of that is paid out in the form of player prize money, $1 million is used for the Tour and tournament's administrative expenses, and $1 million is donated to local charitable cause.

So paying top talent what they are worth is pandering?

 

[Louis_Posture]

in what is becoming a a second class league if you plan is followed.

Some fans might perceive it that way, others will continue to enjoy watching the same tournament's they have watched for decades , including the new players. Really the participating players have always come and gone; it's more the well managed tournaments at great courses that is a constant of the PGA Tour.

 

[echico]

Some fans might perceive it that way, others will continue to enjoy watching the same tournament's they have watched for decades , including the new players. Really the participating players have always come and gone; it's more the well managed tournaments at great courses that is a constant of the PGA Tour.

So rest on it laurels instead of innovating for the future.

 

[Louis_Posture]

So paying top talent what they are worth is pandering?

From a rationally managed professional golf Tour perspective "what they are worth" is determined by how much corporations are willing to pay to sponsor a tournament.
For example since its inception financial requirement to be a lead-name sponsor of a PGA Tour event have gone from $50,000 to $500,000 to $5 million etc... and along the way prize money for the players increased, as it should.

 

[IceyShanks]

I now wonder if the PIF will go after the DP World Tour for world rankings options. DPWT has been left out with this whole PGAT thing and need a partner to dance with

I've wondered the same thing

 

[echico]

From a rationally managed professional golf Tour perspective "what they are worth" is determined by how much corporations are willing to pay to sponsor a tournament.
For example since its inception financial requirement to be a lead-name sponsor of a PGA Tour event have gone from $50,000 to $500,000 to $5 million etc... and along the way prize money for the players increased, as it should.

And that has changed now that another league is available for the players to get paid. Your methodology is all well and good for a monopoly but doesn't work when there is competition. Like it or not the rules have changed.

 

[Slowmo]

I now wonder if the PIF will go after the DP World Tour for world rankings options. DPWT has been left out with this whole PGAT thing and need a partner to dance with

As much as I love the story, you can't exactly sign AK to play the rest of the year and say "we should totally be getting OWGR points, we're meeting the criteria"

 

[Louis_Posture]

So rest on it laurels instead of innovating for the future.

A Tour that spends money within its means is not "resting on its laurels", it's a well managed Tour that can sustain itself.
And irrational overspending of money does not equal innovation.

 

[Louis_Posture]

Your methodology is all well and good for a monopoly but doesn't work when there is competition. .

I expect that a smaller financial scale PGA Tour will succeed very well, including participation by plenty of corporate sponsors , great golf courses, sensational players etc...

 

[Greg Kulbick]

We've gone over this before, but I'll try again:

The Aramco Ladies series IS NOT A GOLF LEAGUE. It's not a separate entity. It's part of the Ladies European Tour, which is a recognised tour by the OWGR. IF LIV was part of the PGA Tour (à la WGC) they'd probably get world ranking points. But since they chose to do their own thing, they are not getting any at the moment.

At the very core it comes down to this:
- PIF agrees deal with LET -> World Ranking Points
- PIF does NOT agree deal with PGAT -> NO World Ranking Points

Who wants to tell him...

 

[mikeg_74]

As much as I love the story, you can't exactly sign AK to play the rest of the year and say "we should totally be getting OWGR points, we're meeting the criteria"

How would that be an different than him getting a PGAT exemption and making the cut? he'd get some sort of points for that ahead of others who might be better or more deserving in some eyes.

I think the Aramco series is the blueprint for giving LIV points, and not giving it to them is just posturing by the powers that be to protect the PGAT.

 

[Slowmo]

How would that be an different than him getting a PGAT exemption and making the cut? he'd get some sort of points for that ahead of others who might be better or more deserving in some eyes.

I think the Aramco series is the blueprint for giving LIV points, and not giving it to them is just posturing by the powers that be to protect the PGAT.

I agree that the Aramco series is how LIV should have been set up and done in the first place. Had they done that to begin with we wouldn't be in the situation we are today.

 

[cmgolf]

I agree that the Aramco series is how LIV should have been set up and done in the first place. Had they done that to begin with we wouldn't be in the situation we are today.

But when PIF approached the PGA TOUR to discuss they didn’t get any opening or listening. Then they did things their way, LIV golf !

 

[DataDude]

It's crazy how easy it is to outplay everyone when you have a massive bank account.

After all the dust settles on this whole thing, that will likely be my biggest takeaway.

You didn't know that already?

 

[Canadan]

You didn't know that already?

Generally speaking, it's a reality that exists, of course.

It just sucks to have that shoved in our faces when all we're trying to do is enjoy the best players in the world

 

[jdlive]

I got that, but let's be honest, that is a tall task in it's own. If the governing bodies are willing to make exemptions for majors, they might as well sign off on the OWGR points and save themselves for having to deal with it.

The Masters is the only invitational iirc, and the Opens can be qualified for. That just leaves the PGA which has been the worse of the 4 majors in terms of prestige imo.

Yeah seems unlikely since the majors and "governing bodies" are the ones who set up and control the OWGR. I don't expect some kind of general exemptions for LIV but more of the type given to Niemann. Maybe if more of the LIV guys would try to qualify for the Opens it might give them more reason to get some exemptions. You know, make some kind of effort like Niemann did instead of just whining and demanding.

Setting up qualification criteria for majors (and therefore ranking the players) WITHIN an ecosystem is literally what the OWGR is for. Its main purpose is not ranking all the professional golf players in the world.

The majors could’ve created special exemptions for LIV all this time if they wanted to.

He doesn't like the answer so will continue to ignore it.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

But when PIF approached the PGA TOUR to discuss they didn’t get any opening or listening. Then they did things their way, LIV golf !

Yep, the PGA Tour absolutely slammed the door in LIV's face and didn't even want to discuss any possibilities with them. Only when LIV started to acquire players and had lawsuits, then the PGA suddenly wanted to cut a deal with LIV. Now, that the PGA has 3 billion dollar deal with SSG, they seem like they don't care if they cut a deal with LIV or not again. But, I think the PGA would be unwise to turn away another 3 billion from LIV.

 

[Hacker67]

Setting up qualification criteria for majors (and therefore ranking the players) WITHIN an ecosystem is literally what the OWGR is for. Its main purpose is not ranking all the professional golf players in the world.

The majors could’ve created special exemptions for LIV all this time if they wanted to.

Where does it mention anywhere in the OWGR mission statement about being in an ecosystem? OWGR has bent protocols many times throughout the years.

Most of the heads of the Majors are on the OWGR board so if they are not going to give them OWGR what makes you think they will set up a special system for LIV?

Kinda sad Louie O will miss the Masters for the first time since 2008 and he is playing excellent golf with 2 back to back DPWT wins and finishing 2nd last week.

LIV playing so much in Asia this year may be their pathway to taking over the Asian Tour. If they can get China to open up to golf that is a huge market.

 

[echico]

Yeah these guys don't care about getting better or working on their craft.

 

[MrDC]

LIV broke OWGR, well at least the perception that it's broken, which it's not, but if anyone has that opinion it's because of LIV, nobody else.

Show me one post from any of you that questioned it before LIV, zip.

That's why most golf fans are not happy about this issue, and why OWGR made the right call - LIV doesn't make the rules.

LIV golfers want to play less golf, in lesser formats, against less players, and then remain ranked among the best who play more golf, in more competitive formats, how is that fair? what's next, MLB teams that get to play 6 innings and then join the post season with those that play 9? it's a joke and the PGAT players need to stop playing nice with LIV and call them out on this. Yes those defected players are still highly ranked because of what they did on the PGAT, not what they're doing on LIV. Give LIV another year or two and should they remain highly ranked? nope.

The only way to fix this with LIV in the mix is to change the PGAT format, and all of golf, to match the LIV format, how will you LIV supporters like that? would you like The Masters to go to 3 rounds? I'm sure you would.

 

[echico]

LIV broke OWGR, well at least the perception that it's broken, which it's not, but if anyone has that opinion it's because of LIV, nobody else.

Show me one post from any of you that questioned it before LIV, zip.

That's why most golf fans are not happy about this issue, and why OWGR made the right call - LIV doesn't make the rules.

LIV golfers want to play less golf, in lesser formats, against less players, and then remain ranked among the best who play more golf, in more competitive formats, how is that fair? what's next, MLB teams that get to play 6 innings and then join the post season with those that play 9? it's a joke and the PGAT players need to stop playing nice with LIV and call them out on this. Yes those defected players are still highly ranked because of what they did on the PGAT, not what they're doing on LIV. Give LIV another year or two and should they remain highly ranked? nope.

The only way to fix this with LIV in the mix is to change the PGAT format, and all of golf, to match the LIV format, how will you LIV supporters like that? would you like The Masters to go to 3 rounds? I'm sure you would.

lesser formats vs competitive formats, what does that mean? Is it just the 3 rounds vs 4 rounds? It is still stroke play, I didn't see the LIV Hong Kong team Shamble event.

 

[Birdieputt]

LIV broke OWGR, well at least the perception that it's broken, which it's not, but if anyone has that opinion it's because of LIV, nobody else.

Show me one post from any of you that questioned it before LIV, zip.

That's why most golf fans are not happy about this issue, and why OWGR made the right call - LIV doesn't make the rules.

LIV golfers want to play less golf, in lesser formats, against less players, and then remain ranked among the best who play more golf, in more competitive formats, how is that fair? what's next, MLB teams that get to play 6 innings and then join the post season with those that play 9? it's a joke and the PGAT players need to stop playing nice with LIV and call them out on this. Yes those defected players are still highly ranked because of what they did on the PGAT, not what they're doing on LIV. Give LIV another year or two and should they remain highly ranked? nope.

The only way to fix this with LIV in the mix is to change the PGAT format, and all of golf, to match the LIV format, how will you LIV supporters like that? would you like The Masters to go to 3 rounds? I'm sure you would.

OWGR does rank players who play in no cut or less than 72 holes. They just don't do it for LIV. They are selectively applying their rules which makes them suspect and corrupt. OWGR either needs to go away and let some adults do the rankings or get rid of the board responsible for this mess. We need the best players playing against each other or we have a tournament come down to some guys named Knapp and Valimaki. You don't have to change anything just apply what you are already doing to LIV. Frankly when Monahan is shown the door, Whan should go with him.