Time to Stop Worrying about "Growing the Game"?

[Annhl8rX]

I think what hurts the game more is a ridiculous sticking to orthodoxy about culture, rules, etc.

Absolutely! Golf makes baseball look progressive and forward thinking, and that's hard to do.

 

[Otis32]

Still see a good amount of under utilized capacity in this area so plenty of opportunity to grow the game and it should be a goal. The operating costs for maintaining a golf course are certainly high but the opportunity costs related to owning one (alternate land use) have to be tremendous as well. Especially in a large metro area. Growth of the game is key to maintaining long-term opportunities for all types of golfers otherwise many of these options (courses) will go away.

Not sure the potential (perceived??) success of high end equipment options signals anything all that relevant.

In spite of the commercials I doubt the marketing efforts to "grow the game" from the National industry groups are all that effective. Maybe industry dollars spent working with owner/operators on proven ways to squeeze margins out of under utilized capacity would do more for rounds played.

 

[Otis32]

Absolutely! Golf makes baseball look progressive and forward thinking, and that's hard to do.

Feels like the proposed rules changes are an effort to make the game easier to understand and more accessible. Big paradigm shift for the games traditional powers though and getting there in a big way will be a challenge....

 

[tahoebum]

I think time is a big issue. It's hard to take hours out of a day to go play. The world moves fast and finding that time is becoming more difficult.

I agree that time is a huge factor that will always limit golf's popularity. I have a couple neighbors who are members at our club that play less golf now and more tennis because of time constraints. I certainly played a lot less golf for the 15 years that I had multiple kids in sports. I had many years where I only played 30-45 rounds. That number has now gone up to 100 and I'm guessing will grow to 200+ when I retire.

 

[tequila4kapp]

I thing Grow The Game is like Always Be Selling...it is a constant.

I agree with Freddie that the game is fine, but things have normalized after an era of incredible golf. Anectdotally, the ranges are always busy, I see more women on the course than ever and I see plenty of kids taking up the game. On those last two parts my area has plenty of outreach and other programs to encourage woman and kids to get involved. It is working. These are all public course observations.

 

[Big SoIL]

I think golf is just growing differently now with the popularity of Top Golf and similar places. Not so much new players jumping straight onto the course, but a ton of new golf activity so I don't really think the game is in trouble right now. Golf courses and equipment companies maybe, but the game itself is ok.

 

[ntanygd760]

Similar to what happened to bowling. Now it is rock n bowl everywhere and you are hard pressed to find a scratch league anywhere.

 

[rollin]

I play munis in NYC and play with a diverse group of people all the time. You don't need to be rich to golf. I don't think you can fault OEMs. Their bottom line is that they need to make money to stay in business and its a tough business. The availability of used clubs really cuts costs.

I think what hurts the game more is a ridiculous sticking to orthodoxy about culture, rules, etc.

firstly...no one has to play by any rules they don't wish to play by. But if what your talking of as for rules was meant more about the culture and things like dress codes ,behavior ediquettes, etc, etc...... then I disagree. I bet my right arm that once the general masses play golf and most every household had a player in it, we would see terrible everything. Terrible conditions, terrible etiquettes, complete lack of concern for the course, little to no common courtesies and to boot 5 to 6 hr rounds would be a norm.

Everything that we do and places we go all seem to get ruined whenever a majority of the masses can and do participate. I wouldn't ever want to see golf lose any of its tradition nor culture when it comes to being held at a higher standard. There are not many things left today that are still of a higher standard where as better behaviors, etiquettes, and common courtesies are still displayed. Even at risk of having to put up with some snobiness that may come along with it, I still prefer that over what would become of golf if it went in the other direction. I grasp at anything I can to try to hold on to what little amounts of higher standards are left in this world. I wish more things would be like golf in that sense. cause we sure as heck don't have enough standards anymore for good behavior nowadays just about anywhere. sad really imo

 

[Smallville]

At our old course we tried to get the juniors involved with special deals on Sundays ($18 for an adult and a minor child after 2pm). Never took off like we wanted it to but had several families as regulars. It was a shorter course with five sets of tees that gave youngsters a course that didn't overwhelm them (just over 4,000 yards were the forward tees). Seems like more played on Saturdays and paid the regular junior rate.

The courses we are at now are longer (in fact the one I work at used to be the longest in the world back in the '70s and '80s), and the shortest tees on each are over 5,000 yards. Doesn't exactly scream out for youngsters to come out to play, although both courses have a good program for high school kids. The one I am at has a family day on Sundays for 15 bucks for an adult and a minor child to come play after 4 pm. It gets a few takers but not a lot.

We have a guy who is trying to get his five year-old into it, and they come up and hit the driving range in the evenings. I've told him about the Sunday thing but they haven't taken advantage of it yet.

 

[rollin]

At our old course we tried to get the juniors involved with special deals on Sundays ($18 for an adult and a minor child after 2pm). Never took off like we wanted it to but had several families as regulars. It was a shorter course with five sets of tees that gave youngsters a course that didn't overwhelm them (just over 4,000 yards were the forward tees). Seems like more played on Saturdays and paid the regular junior rate.

The courses we are at now are longer (in fact the one I work at used to be the longest in the world back in the '70s and '80s), and the shortest tees on each are over 5,000 yards. Doesn't exactly scream out for youngsters to come out to play, although both courses have a good program for high school kids. The one I am at has a family day on Sundays for 15 bucks for an adult and a minor child to come play after 4 pm. It gets a few takers but not a lot.

We have a guy who is trying to get his five year-old into it, and they come up and hit the driving range in the evenings. I've told him about the Sunday thing but they haven't taken advantage of it yet.

interesting...but see now imo if a parent/child were to play they would do so when their lives allow regardless of such a special. Imo 2pm on a Sunday is not the time for that as is evident in what you say above. For most families with little ones Id think its fair to assume late Sunday afternoons and into the evening is most probably filled with family obs like visiting fam/friends, or some sort of gathering for any number of occasions, or simply a day out doing something as a fam somewhere or also perhaps resting up and preparing for the upcoming work and school week, not to mention other sports or activities the child may already be obligated to doing. Basically a 2pm round or later one is killing all but that morning and who really does all that much in the morning? Most people go about their family routines and business in the mid days and afternoons. That 2pm time is not really practical imo because it basically kills the whole day. And only people truly interested in golf would be willing to kill the whole day.

One of the biggest issues with golf on weekend for a given (especially younger) family is that the player of the game usually needs to get out early and get back early enough where as he/she still has the afternoon and remainder of the day/evening to tend to the family stuff and/or other obs. That is something talked about a whole lot and is/was lived by very many players including (at one time) myself. And even now though my kids are older I still need to do that often enough.

But even if your idea was done at a more poractical time it would still require a real interest for the parent and also child. people don't just start playing golf because there is some special going on at a near by course. Regardless any of that it still requires a lot of time and enough of a genuine interest in playing the game and it has to be a great enough of an interest to warrant the time in their minds. Then of course we must not forget this is not at all an easy game and learning is a process of more time and also more money and so on.

 

[rollin]

On another note and has been mentioned by others ion this thread. And I see the same things in my area, Most any instructor I know of who is worth anything is booked constantly. I also see plenty high schoolers not only on the courses but also as a team in practice facilities as well as executive courses and full courses. I see so many teens doing the same and smaller kids with parents at ranges and taking lessons and participating in programs.

But people need a real genuine interest to participate. People who don't play golf are not just going to start playing because of anything we may do to "grow the game".

Golf requires time and money and tons of patience and a whole lot of effort. It just simply doesn't appeal to most people for a million different reasons. And life itself gets in the way too. In the end its only golf and not of great importance. Never did and never will be something that most people do. And honestly I don't want to see "most" people doing it. All golf needs is a happy medium of supply/demand. In some areas supply is higher while in others demand is higher and in some its a good balance. Through time those things change from place to place.

A couple mentioned and I agree that the whole "grow the game" thing is tiring and old. Thw whole "whats wrong with golf" idea is ridiculous. Its the same freaking game it was during the great influx. There was nothing wrong with golf then, so why is there anything wrong now? It was also the same game during an influx created by Arnie and Tv and jack. There was nothing wrong then nor was there anything wrong before that nor after that influx had its drop off back to reality again. Nothing been wrong woith the game for a hundreds years, whi is there anything wrong now. if anything equipment made the game easier for us. But yet there is something wrong with golf. I don't get it.

 

[bobgeorge]

You have to keep growing the game to bring in new blood....but golf has always been a niche sport & will always be a niche sport. Tiger bought golf to the main stream of sports & gave the 'appearance' that it was there to stay, but in reality it was still a niche sport.

Cost & time will always keep golf a niche sport. Anytime something is a hobby it has to compete against all your others hobbies for money and time. Depending in your income level and family commitments everyone's time and money varies. I know four guys that live on my block that tell me they would like to get out & play golf...but they have jobs, wives, and kids that are a higher priority.

 

[rollin]

You have to keep growing the game to bring in new blood....but golf has always been a niche sport & will always be a niche sport. Tiger bought golf to the main stream of sports & gave the 'appearance' that it was there to stay, but in reality it was still a niche sport.

Cost & time will always keep golf a niche sport. Anytime something is a hobby it has to compete against all your others hobbies for money and time. Depending in your income level and family commitments everyone's time and money varies. I know four guys that live on my block that tell me they would like to get out & play golf...but they have jobs, wives, and kids that are a higher priority.

I agree with most said. But as you say its a niche game. Not only are very many unable to participate, very many simply do not have a genuine interest to do so anyway even if they were able to. But because its a niche game...that part in itself is why imo trying to grow it is really not something that's going to affect it much.

They only people who really "have to" try to grow and bring in new are those who depend on it. Very many people and many of us I assume have other recreations as well. We don't imo have to try to grow any of them and golf imo is no different. It is what it is. Just like those other recreations its not whats truly important. Imo the day a recreations become a task its no longer a recreation but instead is work. I mean I wish well and all the power to those who want to try to grow it if that's what your mission is. That's good I suppose, but in my neck of the woods I would ask please go and grow it somewhere else. I don't need more crowds nor the negatives that comes with them..lol

 

[leftshot]

Over 25 million Americans played golf in 2016. I have a question, how many is 'enough'?

 

[rollin]

Over 25 million Americans played golf in 2016. I have a question, how many is 'enough'?

well,... in the eyes of those who profit from it there is never enough. And I also suppose it simply depends where one is from and just how much golf (and all golf related) is available to those people and at what expense is what will determine how they feel. Supply vs demand when lopsided either way can be a real negative.

 

[Otis32]

Over 25 million Americans played golf in 2016. I have a question, how many is 'enough'?

Not sure what the number "should be" and it probably depends on what area of the country you live in but in this part of the Midwest there are still some pretty solid courses that are struggling. Courses that are good options (or have the potential to be good options) for those new to the game or those who are more middle class/blue collar.

Many of the weak sister late builds during the end of golf boom have already collapsed here but there are still quite a few municipals that struggle to get funding & privately owned courses (open to the public) that have had to cut back on upkeep & services to stay in operation. A small spurt in participation and rounds played would go a long way to maintaining options for all golfers.

Not sure the popularity of Top Golf will translate to an increase in rounds played at actual courses. While actual golfers might check it out I feel it is really there to cater to the ever larger "dabbler culture" who bounce around the periphery of a lot of hobbies/activities but never really commit.

Agree with others that game growth efforts need to be localized and be designed take advantage of local opportunities. SE Asian immigrants in this area love the game and are the one middle class/blue collar demographic that appears to be comitting to the sport in multiple age groups & both genders. If the local golf community would work a little harder connecting with this group and making them feel more welcome IMO it could be nice positive for all golfers in the area.

 

[Canadan]

I don't think this idea is DOA at all, but I do think there needs to be a more realistic understanding about what kind of golf can be affordable for all.. Maybe complexes of fewer holes and larger practice areas would be a more sufficient and affordable way to get a larger income bracket interested.

To the companies selling obnoxiously priced equipment, it's kind of a dead conversation to me. If you want to go buy a 100k automobile, I'm going to laugh before I'm impressed, and I feel much the same about a lot of these obnoxiously priced golf clubs. Its not a reflection of the business to me, and it no longer bothers me.

Fortunately we've got companies who are operating on the other side of reality and selling clubs at an extremely affordable price... And for everyone else, the cost of 14 clubs that are slightly used or a year old are crazy cheap.

Hockey is the same way. You don't need a 400 dollar stick to compete, but you can get one if you want to be like the pros.

 

[tucsoncacti]

Been reading this thread. I think growing this game is all about money. Meaning you have to have it to play it. Period. When I first moved to Arizona (2002) we were in the height of the Tiger era. I am not joking, you could not get on any course during the winter months (prime season) for anything less than 80 dollars a round. Now for me at the time that was pricey. I had two young kids, responsibilities, and could not afford that. So I played once a month if at that, and during the summer it would drop in half. Now 15 years later, I believe they priced themselves out of growing the game, they took advantage of an interest spike, and after 3 local course closures and 15 years later, I can get on many local courses in the 50 dollar range during the winter, and at times less than 20 dollars during the summer. Now it blows me away that the course is not filled at 20 dollars (WITH A CART!!), I can play 18 holes in less than two hours, and not see a single person. So for me at least in Arizona, now is the time to get the game growing with young, and new players. I see lots of dads with their little ones on the driving range, and average guys just practicing. But not as many as you would expect in this price range.

 

[Scrap Iron]

You never stop growing the game. Introducing kids to the game and having fun optionsfor those with time restraints are crucial. IMO yes golf does have a cost but there are ways to take less of a financial hit, many companies offer boxed sets and used clubs or older models are always available.

 

[rollin]

I still blame an irresponsible over expansion for a lot. Everyone who could, looked to take full advantage of the influx and never bothered to consider the fact that it wouldn't last. And may those same people, entrepreneurs, and corporations who over charged, and sucked every penny they could from the high demand now wants everyone to grow the gam? Imo they are the ones who created much the voids in many of the cases where they now exist. And all those who were already happily existing and surviving prior to that time now became hurt by this because of the others as well. I mean what can you do? Its only natural to expand when demand is high. But that process in itself is what imo ended up hurting everyone.

But on that note, I'm not to feel sorry for those who charged too much for the average person during the high demand period simly because they struggle to survive now. Imo they never gave a rats ass about the average person then so why should the average person give a crap about them now. All they ever did was make it so the places where the average person always counted on is now hurting too.

 

[Scrap Iron]

I still blame an irresponsible over expansion for a lot. Everyone who could, looked to take full advantage of the influx and never bothered to consider the fact that it wouldn't last. And may those same people, entrepreneurs, and corporations who over charged, and sucked every penny they could from the high demand now wants everyone to grow the gam? Imo they are the ones who created much the voids in many of the cases where they now exist. And all those who were already happily existing and surviving prior to that time now became hurt by this because of the others as well. I mean what can you do? Its only natural to expand when demand is high. But that process in itself is what imo ended up hurting everyone.

But on that note, I'm not to feel sorry for those who charged too much for the average person during the high demand period simly because they struggle to survive now. Imo they never gave a rats ass about the average person then so why should the average person give a crap about them now. All they ever did was make it so the places where the average person always counted on is now hurting too.

I don't think you can blame the cost of golf as an excuse. I can buy a set of clubs for $200 Canadian and play 9 holes for 30 bucks. I think there is a stigma that golf costs a lot and people want to don't want to struggle and be good right away. Golf is hard and it takes time to practice. When people aren't good at something right away they tend to give it up very quick.

 

[rollin]

I don't think you can blame the cost of golf as an excuse. I can buy a set of clubs for $200 Canadian and play 9 holes for 30 bucks. I think there is a stigma that golf costs a lot and people want to don't want to struggle and be good right away. Golf is hard and it takes time to practice. When people aren't good at something right away they tend to give it up very quick.

blaming cost was not really the point I was getting at in my post. I was only implying how I cannot feel bad for those who struggle now who were also the same ones over charging and cashing in with no regard for anyone else when things were at a high as well as also creating the over expansion which has now left a much larger void making it all seem much worse than it really is.

But on another note cost is relative to us all very differently. Cheap is a relative term. Golf (like anything we do) costs money regardless. And I do agree that golf is a process and has always been the case and many do not want to take on that process. And nowadays society moves fast and in general we have less patience as a whole so that makes things even worse as for things which require a process.

 

[Howzat]

I don't think you can blame the cost of golf as an excuse. I can buy a set of clubs for $200 Canadian and play 9 holes for 30 bucks. I think there is a stigma that golf costs a lot and people want to don't want to struggle and be good right away. Golf is hard and it takes time to practice. When people aren't good at something right away they tend to give it up very quick.

There is certainly a stigma. My poor 12 year old daughter was told by her friends that it is just an old white rich man's game. I am glad she doesn't care what others think and had a great time playing middle school golf this year.

 

[Karl]

If people want to play golf they will find a way. There's super poor people that still smoke cigarettes for example. Smoking is more expensive than golf.

 

[ntanygd760]

I don't think you can blame the cost of golf as an excuse. I can buy a set of clubs for $200 Canadian and play 9 holes for 30 bucks. I think there is a stigma that golf costs a lot and people want to don't want to struggle and be good right away. Golf is hard and it takes time to practice. When people aren't good at something right away they tend to give it up very quick.

Glad I live where I do because I would play very little golf if I had to pay $30 for 9.