Weight Loss Drugs - Thoughts?

[baylrballa]

To be fair, for some, prioritizing their health is a near impossibility when they live paycheck to paycheck and are barely keeping food on the table. Even with insurance, it's very tough for some. Now, that's not to say that there aren't things that people can (and don't) do to help themselves. But even a simple $75.00 co-pay at a specialist is a "no can do" for lots of people right now.

That’s a concern for a growing population. And a whole different probably more important topic.

To this issue, it is hard to be obese if one it truly struggling to that level. Even then it’s crazy how many times I’ve seen someone checkout at the grocery store with a pile of unhealthy junk food and pay with food stamps.

 

[robrandalgz]

That’s a concern for a growing population. And a whole different probably more important topic.

To this issue, it is hard to be obese if one it truly struggling to that level. Even then it’s crazy how many times I’ve seen someone checkout at the grocery store with a pile of unhealthy junk food and pay with food stamps.

100%. Not to jump too far down that rabbit hole, but I will say this: There are certain foods that absolutely should not be eligible for purchase with food stamps. Conversely, there certain foods that shouldn't be on the market, period.

O.K. off my soapbox.

My wife and I had to go on food stamps once about 25 years ago. Both out of work and two kids. It was the most humiliating thing I've ever done in my entire life. But you put your pride aside when you've got mouths to feed. Long story short, in AZ those benefits did not carry over from one month to the other (at the time), so you had to "use it up" before the next cycle. One particular week at the end of the month my wife came home with King Crab legs to "use up the surplus". I got it, but in my mind I was like "never f*cking again". Luckily, we both got decent jobs shortly after and never had to resort to public assistance again. But, yeah...........

 

[robrandalgz]

That’s a concern for a growing population. And a whole different probably more important topic.

To this issue, it is hard to be obese if one it truly struggling to that level. Even then it’s crazy how many times I’ve seen someone checkout at the grocery store with a pile of unhealthy junk food and pay with food stamps.

Also, to that point. For along time, it was easier/cheaper to feed your family of four through the value menu at a FF restaurant than it was to buy fresh produce/meat/fruit. It's easy t become obese in that cycle, also. Just for perspective, brother.

 

[rlb4]

Curious to hear your thoughts on the new weight loss drugs that have been approved by the FDA and are now on the market. Are you considering it? Are you taking any? What has your experience been so far if so? Is the expense significant? I have not and have no plans to do so. I am more looking at the investment side of things. I have stuck a significant piece of my investment portfolio towards this. Many people think these will eventually be the largest selling drugs of all-time and I tend to agree. Especially once they are covered by insurance and become affordable. Now they are mostly cost-prohibitive to all but wealthier individuals but that will soon change. The experimental data and results have shown significant weight loss success for most and the possible treatment for many obesity-related diseases like diabetes, heart disease, etc seem significant.

LLY from an investment point of view.

 

[1860VS]

Given the long litigious history of weight loss drugs, I would be careful about investing a large percentage of my portfolio on such endeavor.

 

[1860VS]

Just a cursory search brought this up from 2011. I know there are more recent events as well. fen-phen was a huge deal a couple decades ago, as I recall the suit ended with an almost $5 Billion settlement. That was just one among many diet drug financial fiascos.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE71063Y/

 

[JAM01]

My insurance company denied all these as I’m not diabetic. So I started to do fit camp at 5am every day. I will admit that I’d take the shot and probably NOT do the diet exercise portion that’s essential.

 

[MtlJeff]

There’s a bunch of housewives around me who have taken this to drop 10 pounds a couple weeks prior to going on vacation. No doubt these drugs will be getting abused in the wrong way across the country.

"Wrong way" is subjective? Much like when opioids were used to treat back pain, i'd say this is an intentional result of the drug

 

[tucsoncacti]

This, also, is a reason that I don't trust new drugs. There's been nowhere near enough research on the long term effects of these drugs for me to ever assume that they're "safe".

I'm diabetic and I'm working on getting my AC1 numbers to a point that my doctor feels comfortable. He mentioned that Ozembic may be a next step. I told him that's a straight up f*ck no. We'll figure it out another way.

And like you can afford to drop weight too.

 

[Desmond]

Everytime I get off an airplane and see the dozen wheelchairs lined up, I shake my head because most of it is not the very elderly, but the very obese.

Watch TV and you know celebrities on award shows are on it. Does it last? Not until their behavior changes. Because you see the celeb a month later and they are again obese.

As stated so well above, one must change their eating habits and what they eat, and actually move their body a bit to regain health.

As I've grown to senior age, I've changed my habits... less carbs, smaller portions, more water, more fish, good veggies, less alcohol, less sugars. One must adjust their behavior.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

It's basically sociopathic discipline, ...

What an odd time it is, in which we live, where putting in the effort to be fit is regarded by some as "sociopathic" and being unhealthily overweight is "normal"

... or having a second part-time job which is just working out.

Not really.

While I never developed visible abs I did all but eliminate all visible traces of belly fat and had visible muscle definition pretty much everywhere except my abs. I did this while holding down a full-time job (which often required putting in overtime hours), maintaining a happy marriage, maintaining a home, spending time with friends and family, taking vacations, enjoying hobbies, etc. All the things average people do in their average lives.

All it took was a reasonable diet and regular exercise.

Even now, in a fat-cutting phase, I'm not doing anything particularly extreme with my diet. Nor am I living in my gym. I work out 2-3 times/week, otherwise try to stay at least somewhat physically active, eat reasonable portions of balanced meals, avoid incessant snacking, shun sugary drinks and snacks most of the time, and drink little alcohol.

That doesn't mean I completely deprive myself of things which enjoy that are not particularly healthy. I had a couple home-made scones with my morning coffee Saturday and Sunday morning. One night, last week, the bag of Ruffles Cheddar & Sour Cream potato chips was really calling to me, so I enjoyed a small bowl of them. I have a couple pieces of quality chocolate each night with my after-dinner coffee. (I'm a chocoholic.) I have a small glass of OJ with my morning protein bar and yogurt because, while OJ isn't particularly healthy, I really, really like OJ. If I really feel like a beer or a dram of whisky, I'll treat myself. The beef stew my wife made night-before-last was accompanied by a couple home-made biscuits. I lightly dosed the buckwheat pancakes my wife made for dinner a few nights ago with butter and maple syrup.

What I don't do is stuff myself at mealtime or indulge myself with those things day-in, day-out, day-after-day.

I'm not trying to portray myself as some paradigm of virtue. I'm trying to illustrate that it's absolutely not necessary to be extreme in diet or exercise to be fit and healthy.

And I wouldn't touch Ozempic with a ten foot pole.

 

[MtlJeff]

What an odd time it is, in which we live, where putting in the effort to be fit is regarded by some as "sociopathic" and being unhealthily overweight is "normal"

Not really.

While I never developed visible abs I did all but eliminate all visible traces of belly fat and had visible muscle definition pretty much everywhere except my abs. I did this while holding down a full-time job (which often required putting in overtime hours), maintaining a happy marriage, maintaining a home, spending time with friends and family, taking vacations, enjoying hobbies, etc. All the things average people do in their average lives.

All it took was a reasonable diet and regular exercise.

Even now, in a fat-cutting phase, I'm not doing anything particularly extreme with my diet. Nor am I living in my gym. I work out 2-3 times/week, otherwise try to stay at least somewhat physically active, eat reasonable portions of balanced meals, avoid incessant snacking, shun sugary drinks and snacks most of the time, and drink little alcohol.

That doesn't mean I completely deprive myself of things which enjoy that are not particularly healthy. I had a couple home-made scones with my morning coffee Saturday and Sunday morning. One night, last week, the bag of Ruffles Cheddar & Sour Cream potato chips was really calling to me, so I enjoyed a small bowl of them. I have a couple pieces of quality chocolate each night with my after-dinner coffee. (I'm a chocoholic.) I have a small glass of OJ with my morning protein bar and yogurt because, while OJ isn't particularly healthy, I really, really like OJ. If I really feel like a beer or a dram of whisky, I'll treat myself. The beef stew my wife made night-before-last was accompanied by a couple home-made biscuits. I lightly dosed the buckwheat pancakes my wife made for dinner a few nights ago with butter and maple syrup.

What I don't do is stuff myself at mealtime or indulge myself with those things day-in, day-out, day-after-day.

I'm not trying to portray myself as some paradigm of virtue. I'm trying to illustrate that it's absolutely not necessary to be extreme in diet or exercise to be fit and healthy.

There's a big difference between being "fit" and having visible shredded abs at 40+ years old. At least in my opinion. I don't consider being fit to require sociopathy. I know many fit people that play in adult hockey leagues or flag football leagues a couple of times a week and eat healthy. I can't think of any of these guys having like bodybuilder abs though

One of my good friends does and he is 40 exactly. He works out for 90+ minutes every day. Crossfit style stuff. He build a gym in his shed...stuff like this. Whether that is "sociopathic" is just a matter of wether you consider my comment fun hyperbole (which i did)

When i was 40 i could run a 5-minute mile, deadlift 375lbs and squat 400+ at a weight of 175lbs. I was in the top 1-percentile for chin-ups and pushups in age categories younger than me. I had abs.....and to get to that point was working out more than anyone really needs to. (on my average lunch i would run 5 miles and then get in deadlift sets in under 60 minutes). This is what i consider sociopathic, in a fun, hyperbolic way.

I still run over 50 miles a week and do probably 50+ pushups a day....and i don't have abs anymore at 42.

But if you've seen my nacho thread, you also know i don't eat like a saint.

So yeah, i think to be shredded at 42 you have to do more than what a normal person should have to do. And i'm not "shaming" people who do it.....I did it.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

I guess we'll find out, @MtlJeff, as "shredded" is what I'm aiming for

 

[MtlJeff]

I guess we'll find out, @MtlJeff, as "shredded" is what I'm aiming for

Best of luck to you! The challenge i always had was food. I eat OK but i just can't give up nachos or burgers ...And i don't have the time now to do what i was doing 3 years ago either.

I wouldn't touch Ozempic either. But i guess it's hard to walk in others shoes. When i was 27-28 i was 225lbs though and overweight (this is what happens when you play college sports and then suddenly stop everything). I started jogging and worked from there. My first 1-2 years jogging i had several foot injuries haha

 

[DataDude]

That’s a concern for a growing population. And a whole different probably more important topic.

To this issue, it is hard to be obese if one it truly struggling to that level. Even then it’s crazy how many times I’ve seen someone checkout at the grocery store with a pile of unhealthy junk food and pay with food stamps.

Im not sure about that. The cheapest foods are the least healthy. What meat is the cheapest at the grocery store? Sausage, What’s the most expensive? Fish

Vegetables and fruits are much more expensive than bread and pasta. Sugar is the absolute bar none champion at calories/dollar spent. We all gotta have calories to work, think, and move. If a shopper is on a tight budget their best options are going to be pretty unhealthy.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

Best of luck to you!

Thanks! I've never quite managed to to it before--even when I was nearly twenty years younger than I am now. We shall see.

The challenge i always had was food. I eat OK but i just can't give up nachos or burgers ...

That's the biggie. (Though to have an anything-pack there has to be muscle under there.) Thing is, as I wrote: You don't necessarily have to give that stuff up. Just eat in moderation and get your exercise.

I've had burgers twice w/in the last two-three weeks. One of 'em double beef/double cheese The last one was just a bigger patty, rather than a double. Had fries with that one. But I went real easy on the sides and I forewent the beer I'd normally have been inclined to enjoy with those meals.

We had nachos for dinner sometime in the last month or so, too. Guacamole and sour cream on the side. (I'm not shy with the sour cream, either.)

There's a fitness guy I follow on X goes by "Coach Friso." He posts about all manner of stuff he eats "they" say you have to avoid. He's about as ripped/shredded as one could hope to be

The reasons that works for us is moderation; mostly abstaining from the high glycemic index stuff; laying off snacks and alcohol; regular exercise; good sleep (> 7 hrs./night), proper hydration (I get a minimum of >2L/day), and reducing stress.

 

[j0nesy]

As someone who has struggled to quit smoking, this is 100% correct. Getting rid of the addiction to nicotine isn't even 20% of the battle.

It's similar to sugar addiction. When dieting down, the first thing I cut is sugar (not fruits!) and pre-packaged foods. The first time I ever did this it took two weeks of will power and then I simply no longer craved it. Having gone through this before, it is simpler because I know what to expect from both my mind and body making me crave sweets (hunger, mental fog, etc..). I once quit sweets for 2 years straight, never looked better. COVID timeline really screwed up my diet. I drank too much and lost all discipline with my food.

This is something a lot of us can relate to. A lot of folks love pasta. Pasta is really processed garbage for your body. Most of my life, I ate pasta at minimum once a week. One day, I got serious about my diet and kicked the pasta habit. The best thing about me kicking the habit, is that I have no desire to eat it! I mean, it does not even appeal to me as a food option - which is kind of cool.

I am no expert on dieting, and I really struggle to lose weight because I am short and do not carry a ton of weight to begin with. I will say that apples are a great way to help you diet. Hungry? Ask yourself, are you hungry enough to eat an apple? If so, grab an apple and force yourself to take the first bite - once you do, you will enjoy that apple and satisfy your hunger. For me apples keep me from making bad food choices.

Dieting is really a mental game and your chance of success is a combination of willpower and keeping it simple. Too many people complicate it with powders and special food. The prescription is simple: fruit, salad, real food and cut down on excess alcohol.

 

[Sean]

34% of Americans are obese

Is this based on BMI? If so, BMI is misleading. It was invented almost 200 years ago, and it's an inaccurate measure of body fat as it doesn't take into account muscle and bone density, among other things. So, for example, an athletic person can score as obese. Some insurance companies charge higher premiums for those with a high BMI, so cynically speaking, it may be in their best interest to keep BMI as a measurement. One Harvard professor referred to BMI as “flawed, crude, archaic and overrated proxy for health.”

 

[1860VS]

Is this based on BMI? If so, BMI is misleading. It was invented almost 200 years ago, and it's an inaccurate measure of body fat as it doesn't take into account muscle and bone density, among other things. So, for example, an athletic person can score as obese. Some insurance companies charge higher premiums for those with a high BMI, so cynically speaking, it may be in their best interest to keep BMI as a measurement. One Harvard professor referred to BMI as “flawed, crude, archaic and overrated proxy for health.”

Indeed. I remember when I was in my early 40's. A new to the practice young Dr. walked into the room and without even looking at me starts out.. "Lets see, 5' 11, , 238# 33.2 BMI, we have to do something about that" She then looked at me, 53" chest, broad shoulders, nothing but bone sinew and muscle, 4% body fat as calculated in an immersion test. "Oh, nevermind". Every guy I work with is told they are overweight. They are all just beasts, trained with shovels and sledges, but they make them all do a sleep apnea test for their CDL medical card.
I am fat now, but Jesus, I'm 64, I may be slowing down a bit. LOL. I do need to watch my diet better.

 

[MtlJeff]

Is this based on BMI? If so, BMI is misleading. It was invented almost 200 years ago, and it's an inaccurate measure of body fat as it doesn't take into account muscle and bone density, among other things. So, for example, an athletic person can score as obese. Some insurance companies charge higher premiums for those with a high BMI, so cynically speaking, it may be in their best interest to keep BMI as a measurement. One Harvard professor referred to BMI as “flawed, crude, archaic and overrated proxy for health.”

I've read a lot on the topic also. I know that you are correct but your above paragraph also gets exploited by people looking to promote "body positivity". Most people who classify as obese are not healthy. But yes weightlifters, or NFL fullbacks can also technically qualify as obese as much of it is just raw numbers

I recall reading a column from a clearly agenda-driven writer promoting that it was perfectly normal to be healthy and obese. And of course this was verified by doctors. So, eat whatever you want!

If you read the studies they were citing they left out the part where the doctor essentially said "go walk around the US, do 34% of people look like NFL Fullbacks?"

 

[j0nesy]

I've read a lot on the topic also. I know that you are correct but your above paragraph also gets exploited by people looking to promote "body positivity".

The "body positivity" should never have been applied to fat people. I know it is easy for me to say, I am not obese - but, being grossly overweight is unhealthy and has far reaching consequences to the individual and health system as whole and should not be promoted. Lizzo is an example of this taken to an extreme - gross.

Some of us are old enough to remember when "body positivity" (was not called that back in the day) was a way to discourage people (mainly women) from pursuing the drug heroin/coke model look that was popular in the 90's.

Today, men and women are assaulted with images that are virtually unattainable for the average person and certainly unrealistic. It makes me mad knowing the psychological and health damage it does to people. It in the end, it is a complete waste of someone's stress and mental capacity to be so concerned with body image as portrayed in popular culture.

FWIW, I am not speaking from an ivory tower....Only recently letting go of the body dysmorphia that drove me to bodybuilding and the unhealthy byproducts of sustaining that lifestyle. I was the typical short, skinny kid who took up bodybuilding - aka the classic '98 pound weakling' promoted by Charles Atlas ads.

 

[MtlJeff]

The "body positivity" should never have been applied to fat people. I know it is easy for me to say, I am not obese - but, being grossly overweight is unhealthy and has far reaching consequences to the individual and health system as whole and should not be promoted. Lizzo is an example of this taken to an extreme - gross.

Some of us are old enough to remember when "body positivity" (was not called that back in the day) was a way to discourage people (mainly women) from pursuing the drug heroin/coke model look that was popular in the 90's.

Today, men and women are assaulted with images that are virtually unattainable for the average person and certainly unrealistic. It makes me mad knowing the psychological and health damage it does to people. It in the end, it is a complete waste of someone's stress and mental capacity to be so concerned with body image as portrayed in popular culture.

FWIW, I am not speaking from an ivory tower....Only recently letting go of the body dysmorphia that drove me to bodybuilding and the unhealthy byproducts of sustaining that lifestyle. I was the typical short, skinny kid who took up bodybuilding - aka the classic '98 pound weakling' promoted by Charles Atlas ads.

Oh i agree, but like i posted a few pages ago it sure is weird that this sort of body positivity sprung up right as the pharma industry was working on drugs like Ozempic.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

Is this based on BMI? If so, BMI is misleading. It was invented almost 200 years ago, and it's an inaccurate measure of body fat as it doesn't take into account muscle and bone density, among other things.

BMI can be misleading, but, for most people, it's not an entirely worthless metric. A relatively small percentage of the population has a BMI that's misleadingly high due to being muscular or having "big bones."

In fact (and please don't make me look this up): One health and fitness coach I follow recently posted the results of a meta study that showed a clear relationship between BMI and VO² Max. Essentially: The higher your BMI, the lower your VO² Max, regardless of body composition. VO² Max has been established to have a relationship to longevity.

If you don't like BMI, though, there's another quick-and-dirty fitness metric: Waist to height ratio.

The "body positivity" should never have been applied to fat people.

"Body positivity" is primarily an outgrowth of the calls against "fat shaming." That's all it is.

 

[Sean]

I've read a lot on the topic also. I know that you are correct but your above paragraph also gets exploited by people looking to promote "body positivity". Most people who classify as obese are not healthy. But yes weightlifters, or NFL fullbacks can also technically qualify as obese as much of it is just raw numbers

I recall reading a column from a clearly agenda-driven writer promoting that it was perfectly normal to be healthy and obese. And of course this was verified by doctors. So, eat whatever you want!

If you read the studies they were citing they left out the part where the doctor essentially said "go walk around the US, do 34% of people look like NFL Fullbacks?"

I agree that there are a lot of overweight people, but not sure about 34% being obese. I'm 6'5" and 225 pounds and my BMI is close to obese. I can still see my toes standing up, lol.

 

[Sean]

clear relationship between BMI and VO² Max

That may be, but I still think the classifications are misleading. For example, I'm 6'5" and 225 pounds, my BMI is close to the obese range and I'm not sure I'm even over weight, let alone obese.